Official 2010 US News Law School Rankings Forum

[Bankhead]

I'm sorry US News, but these ranking just seem to validate everyones suspicion that they are not a valid measure of a school's worth and are mostly arbitrary.

There is no way George Washington and Boston College are not top 25 schools.
Indiana U a top 25? Alabama a top 30? These are solid state schools to be sure, but there is no reason they should be ranked where they are based on national recognition and placement.

Ken… or someone smart enough and willing to do it should put together a law school ranking system which reflects national recognition and placement. This is what students want to know when they look at rankings – not (outside of a few) the scholarly productivity of a faculty and the number of volumes in the library. National recognition and placement please. Because looking at this system a student might pick Indiana U over Boston College or George Washington and then be sorely disappointed come time to search for that job in New York or DC.

Sorry, but these are the USNWR rankings, not the biglaw in a big city rankings. If you look at the placement stats for IUB, you can see they are a much more national school than BC/GW. That may well be self selection, but it is what it is. Now let's let the school grow into it's new reputation.

[Paul Ramone]

what happened to GMU?

pretty surprised to see W and L fall 5 spots, too.

[TheNerdProject]

Anyone else suprised that Columbia stole the top spot in international law from NYU?

Also, Georgetown became the nation's #2 tax program tied with UF. Is this, along with being booted out of the top tier, a sign of bad things to come for UF?

[JoeShmo]

Anyone else suprised that Columbia stole the top spot in international law from NYU?

Also, Georgetown became the nation's #2 tax program tied with UF. Is this, along with being booted out of the top tier, a sign of bad things to come for UF?

Where did you find these program rankings?

[Bankhead]

Rankings are trash. They should only be based on NYC biglaw prospects, the only thing that matters.

Hahaha. Well said! I'm about to put my deposit down at that TTT30 Fordham! (whenever they get around to processing my credit card...)

[geoanthem]

Rankings are trash. They should only be based on NYC biglaw prospects, the only thing that matters.

Hahaha. Well said! I'm about to put my deposit down at that TTT30 Fordham! (whenever they get around to processing my credit card...)

GW is still your top choice right?

[Bankhead]

Rankings are trash. They should only be based on NYC biglaw prospects, the only thing that matters.

Hahaha. Well said! I'm about to put my deposit down at that TTT30 Fordham! (whenever they get around to processing my credit card...)

GW is still your top choice right?

Yep. I don't care about much about the rankings. That being said though, 8 points is a large drop and could have long term consequences for the school... see Hastings. Not enough to deter me, however.

[SmurfyRey]

what happened to GMU?

pretty surprised to see W and L fall 5 spots, too.

I would say inclusion of PT statistics did that damage, which goes to show that GMU is actually much stronger than people like to chatter about on here...UGA also dropped 3 places and doesn't have a PT program

[AJaKe]

.

[sbalive]

what happened to GMU?

pretty surprised to see W and L fall 5 spots, too.

I would say inclusion of PT statistics did that damage, which goes to show that GMU is actually much stronger than people like to chatter about on here...UGA also dropped 3 places and doesn't have a PT program

I'm not so sure. If you look at GMU's rep scores, they are consistent with those of the schools around it (BYU, Maryland). They're pretty much unchanged from last year, but if you look at the 2009 rankings, GMU had much lower rep scores than the schools it was ranked with (Hastings, UNC, etc.). So, it actually looks like what happened is that this year's rankings better reflect the external perception of GMU. (In fact, Arizona dropping along with GMU is what is more mysterious, since it has much higher rep scores.)

[geoanthem]

I am so pleased to see FSU going up 3 spots, and UF OUT OF THE T1!? Amazing. 51 + 52, damn. That is rough.

I think FSU is only going to go up also. They are taking over the CoA next door for a new library and that will only help them in the rankings. I say Tier 1 within 5 years for FSU.

Big shockers for me are W&L (what did you do W&L!? kill a baby?) and GMU.

I doubt FSU will ever surpass UF. UF is still king of Florida in employers minds.

[AJaKe]

.

[Zeph]

Good Stuff...kudos to those who brought us the rankings..


A word to all, and maybe a borderline rant for myself...

People are going crazy over rankings, for example the talk of a massive exodus from GW via WDs. GW is still a great school and this year they may be ranked 28 and next year it can jump back to low 20's. we just don't know and that is why I feel this ranking is screwy. There is no sense of permanence outside YHS. Not hating on any fellow TLS users, but people need to calm down lol.

[IzziesGal]

Good Stuff...kudos to those who brought us the rankings..


A word to all, and maybe a borderline rant for myself...

People are going crazy over rankings, for example the talk of a massive exodus from GW via WDs. GW is still a great school and this year they may be ranked 28 and next year it can jump back to low 20's. we just don't know and that is why I feel this ranking is screwy. There is no sense of permanence outside YHS. Not hating on any fellow TLS users, but people need to calm down lol.

+1

All people need to know is that Berkeley held strong at no. 6, despite consistent hating on it from TLSers. (Sorry....I had to )

[pasteurizedmilk]

I see the anti-GULC trolling wasn't warranted......though I am surprised they didn't take at least a slight drop from the inclusion of part time stats. I wonder if they saw this coming and managed PT stats last year to prevent any drop?

[TheNerdProject]

I am so pleased to see FSU going up 3 spots, and UF OUT OF THE T1!? Amazing. 51 + 52, damn. That is rough.

I think FSU is only going to go up also. They are taking over the CoA next door for a new library and that will only help them in the rankings. I say Tier 1 within 5 years for FSU.

Big shockers for me are W&L (what did you do W&L!? kill a baby?) and GMU.

I doubt FSU will ever surpass UF. UF is still king of Florida in employers minds.

They need to convince Tebow that getting a JD will help him get into the NFL (as an agent, that is). People love this guy and I wouldn't be surprised if UF cracked the top 20 his 1L year.

[Dick Whitman]

Northwestern dropped one spot...NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

GWU may jump back up in the rankings next year. Their medians should jump for this year's class (Obama/Colbert bump?).

UNC will have a difficult time maintaining their momentum with a weakened legal market in Charlotte.

[lawaddict06]

I see the anti-GULC trolling wasn't warranted......though I am surprised they didn't take at least a slight drop from the inclusion of part time stats. I wonder if they saw this coming and managed PT stats last year to prevent any drop?

Are we absolutely sure PT was included in the FT rankings? Does it explicitly say that somewhere?

[observationalist]

How could UCLA POSSIBLY rank above Vanderbilt?

Meh, we gained a point in raw score, as did GULC, while UT/UCLA each gained two. Once again, the raw scores show a larger divide from 13-14 than from 14-15... so your mini-tier theory is starting to hold up.

I'm not getting excited all over my pants or anything with these new rankings, but I'm fine with it. As long as our job placement keeps improving we'll be able to hold our own within the tier. People won't start gravitating from Vandy to UCLA just because we flipped this year, just like they didn't flip from UCLA to Vandy last year.

Now if we can all make ground on Cornell again next year, then we can really start to see this mini 13-17 tier shaping up. I'm interested to see if both UCLA and Vanderbilt once again recruit more competitive incoming classes than Cornell next year (with UT probably aiming for that as well).

[casper00]

One thing that I find interesting is Dozo's jump into T50. This should set it apart from Brooklyn for next year's applicants as up until now it seemed that Dozo=BLS.

[dapoetic1]

I'm sorry US News, but these ranking just seem to validate everyones suspicion that they are not a valid measure of a school's worth and are mostly arbitrary.

There is no way George Washington and Boston College are not top 25 schools.
Indiana U a top 25? Alabama a top 30? These are solid state schools to be sure, but there is no reason they should be ranked where they are based on national recognition and placement.

Ken… or someone smart enough and willing to do it should put together a law school ranking system which reflects national recognition and placement. This is what students want to know when they look at rankings – not (outside of a few) the scholarly productivity of a faculty and the number of volumes in the library. National recognition and placement please. Because looking at this system a student might pick Indiana U over Boston College or George Washington and then be sorely disappointed come time to search for that job in New York or DC.

Aside from this poster is everyone else really that shallow and naive to think that USNews has any F-ng clue what they're talking about?
Do people not realize that one school deciding to spend X amount of money on some arbitrary part of the school can cause that school to drop or increase one or two spots which can in turn cause a completely random school to drop or increase 10 spots. These rankings are RIDICULOUS!!!
Not one school on this list changed in rankings because the professors became more accessible, or the number of advanced courses grew, or the tuition became more affordable, or the number of employers that actively recruit grew, or it's students got more clinical training or any of a number of reason that would make a law school great.
Stop feeding into this bullshit!
Oh my school is now number 17 instead of number 22--So the F What!!! It's the same school it was when you applied and it'll be the same school when you graduate. Is it not clear that if a school can drop 10 spots or increase 20 spots this year the same thing can happen next year? So if your school is number 20 this year and drops to 30 next year are you going to transfer out? Highly unlikely!
I find in incredibly frustrating and almost unbelievable that a bunch of future lawyers are willing to let a non-legal magazine tell you what the best law school is without ranking any of the actual important data about that school.
This has to be the most futile bit of information I've ever read. I've heard that people can be ranking-whores but Jesus H. Christ seeing it for myself now...I feel sorry for those of you that think US news is helping you to somehow make one of the biggest decisions in your life.

[midwesterner]

I'm sorry US News, but these ranking just seem to validate everyones suspicion that they are not a valid measure of a school's worth and are mostly arbitrary.

There is no way George Washington and Boston College are not top 25 schools.
Indiana U a top 25? Alabama a top 30? These are solid state schools to be sure, but there is no reason they should be ranked where they are based on national recognition and placement.

Ken… or someone smart enough and willing to do it should put together a law school ranking system which reflects national recognition and placement. This is what students want to know when they look at rankings – not (outside of a few) the scholarly productivity of a faculty and the number of volumes in the library. National recognition and placement please. Because looking at this system a student might pick Indiana U over Boston College or George Washington and then be sorely disappointed come time to search for that job in New York or DC.

Sorry, but these are the USNWR rankings, not the biglaw in a big city rankings. If you look at the placement stats for IUB, you can see they are a much more national school than BC/GW. That may well be self selection, but it is what it is. Now let's let the school grow into it's new reputation.

NO WAY - look at ciolli

[stab master arson]

Congrat to UNC and S Carolina! Both +8!

UNC to top 25 or bust!

It's reassuring to know that UNC appears to have stopped its slide.

Also, I'm glad Florida State's catching up to UF.
GO 'NOLES.

[thedogship]

I see the anti-GULC trolling wasn't warranted......though I am surprised they didn't take at least a slight drop from the inclusion of part time stats. I wonder if they saw this coming and managed PT stats last year to prevent any drop?

Are we absolutely sure PT was included in the FT rankings? Does it explicitly say that somewhere?

Pretty sure that the anti-GULC trolling will continue ever year, no matter how many years they stay at #14.

[stab master arson]

Aside from this poster is everyone else really that shallow and naive to think that USNews has any F-ng clue what they're talking about?
Do people not realize that one school deciding to spend X amount of money on some arbitrary part of the school can cause that school to drop or increase one or two spots which can in turn cause a completely random school to drop or increase 10 spots. These rankings are RIDICULOUS!!!
Not one school on this list changed in rankings because the professors became more accessible, or the number of advanced courses grew, or the tuition became more affordable, or the number of employers that actively recruit grew, or it's students got more clinical training or any of a number of reason that would make a law school great.
Stop feeding into this bullshit!
Oh my school is now number 17 instead of number 22--So the F What!!! It's the same school it was when you applied and it'll be the same school when you graduate. Is it not clear that if a school can drop 10 spots or increase 20 spots this year the same thing can happen next year? So if your school is number 20 this year and drops to 30 next year are you going to transfer out? Highly unlikely!
I find in incredibly frustrating and almost unbelievable that a bunch of future lawyers are willing to let a non-legal magazine tell you what the best law school is without ranking any of the actual important data about that school.
This has to be the most futile bit of information I've ever read. I've heard that people can be ranking-whores but Jesus H. Christ seeing it for myself now...I feel sorry for those of you that think US news is helping you to somehow make one of the biggest decisions in your life.

Thanks for that very original thought.