Please tell me anything at all about UNLV Forum

[magicmagic]

I disagree with landshoes' assumption that you have a mandate to maximize your earning potential and career success. No one does. In theory, it's reasonable to go to a free school with your life partner in a place you both love. But at 22 you might end up changing plans, and you don't want to go to a school that gives you a 50% shot at a legal job.

That's how I feel mostly; obviously the prestige and opportunities of a T14 JD would be awesome, but I'm not sure I want that enough to justify the cost/separation/stress of competing with such a strong pool of students. I'm really torn. I'd hate to go to UNLV or Iowa and end up with just-okay prospects and know I could have done better, but I also might go through all the stress of a T14 (or T6) law school and then never pursue a career that necessitates having "the best" degree. Like I originally said...I know I don't want Big Law, I'd be happy with 70k to start, I want a family in the future and plan to prioritize that role in my life when it is the right time. A degree from Chicago or Duke or NYU would obviously give me flexibility in the long run, but I would spend 3-5 years minimum working off the debt and likely in the sort of BL position I wanted to avoid.

We're visiting Iowa this Saturday. Maybe I'll love it...? Maybe cornfields are my thing.........?

I have no idea.

I wish we didn't like Nevada so much.

[Clearly]

T14 is LESS stressful than bad schools. People completely slack and get biglaw. Stressful is having to compete on everything to get any work at all.

[magicmagic]

T14 is LESS stressful than bad schools. People completely slack and get biglaw. Stressful is having to compete on everything to get any work at all.

That is a compelling point.

[foregetaboutdre]

I disagree with landshoes' assumption that you have a mandate to maximize your earning potential and career success. No one does. In theory, it's reasonable to go to a free school with your life partner in a place you both love. But at 22 you might end up changing plans, and you don't want to go to a school that gives you a 50% shot at a legal job.

That's how I feel mostly; obviously the prestige and opportunities of a T14 JD would be awesome, but I'm not sure I want that enough to justify the cost/separation/stress of competing with such a strong pool of students. I'm really torn. I'd hate to go to UNLV or Iowa and end up with just-okay prospects and know I could have done better, but I also might go through all the stress of a T14 (or T6) law school and then never pursue a career that necessitates having "the best" degree. Like I originally said...I know I don't want Big Law, I'd be happy with 70k to start, I want a family in the future and plan to prioritize that role in my life when it is the right time. A degree from Chicago or Duke or NYU would obviously give me flexibility in the long run, but I would spend 3-5 years minimum working off the debt and likely in the sort of BL position I wanted to avoid.

We're visiting Iowa this Saturday. Maybe I'll love it...? Maybe cornfields are my thing.........?

I have no idea.

I wish we didn't like Nevada so much.

I'll just be straight up. Although I won't say I'm an expert in health law (or IP for your SO), but I don't really know of a small law/midlaw boutique practicing "health-law" other than I guess PI, basic med-mal, or insurance defense. These won't pay 70k esp in a market like Vegas where its "biglaw" probably pays about 90-100k.

I'm not a biglaw or bust person, but your goal being a counsel for a hospital almost requires a biglaw stint IMHO or at least a prominent boutique.

I'll be straight up here too: For you, I think you going to Duke and your SO going to UNC (if the debt is at least manageable) will be your absolute best bet. 1. You'll get a good shot at biglaw/ actually be able to attain your goal working in-house for a medical facility. 2. Your SO will have a good variety of IP possibilities being in the research triangle. Wake is a good possibility too for your SO, but it's not as well regarded as UNC and a lot further away from Duke.

I'm not against Vegas or your UNLV plan as much as other, but I think you're being way too debt-adverse to be honest. Your Iowa plan I think is difficult too. If you want to go to Iowa to practice in Chicago, you might as well go to Notre Dame or any of the Chicago schools. Chances are if you don't like MO, you won't like Iowa (and I like Iowa). It would be awful if your SO could not get a job in Chi (or you) and has to stay in Iowa. IP in Iowa I'm assuming is almost very very very limited.

[Clearly]

Also you need to keep reading into the legal market in Vegas and generally. There's very few jobs that start at 70k. You essentially work in small law/pi for little money, or biglaw for a lot of money, there's not much starting in between.

[psu2016]

Also, another thing for OP to consider: schools lie about their 'specialities'. Many schools say that they have specialized courses in X area...and then those courses are never actually offered (at least while you're there). This goes for every school, not just UNLV, but you need to actually check to make sure that a "health care law" concentration doesn't turn into "one survey course in health care organizations."

[magicmagic]

Also, another thing for OP to consider: schools lie about their 'specialities'. Many schools say that they have specialized courses in X area...and then those courses are never actually offered (at least while you're there). This goes for every school, not just UNLV, but you need to actually check to make sure that a "health care law" concentration doesn't turn into "one survey course in health care organizations."

It seems to be legit, good course offerings. http://www.law.unlv.edu/health-law
I know specialties aren't as important as a school's general employment stats but they can be a bonus. Iowa has literally two health law classes (each offered once every two years) which is unfortunate.

The salary distribution graph is very interesting, I hadn't realized how polarized they tend to be. I wonder if that is just as true for Nevada specifically...? I can't seem to find info for specific states/regions on NALP.

[xael]

This is making me so sad

[psu2016]

Also, another thing for OP to consider: schools lie about their 'specialities'. Many schools say that they have specialized courses in X area...and then those courses are never actually offered (at least while you're there). This goes for every school, not just UNLV, but you need to actually check to make sure that a "health care law" concentration doesn't turn into "one survey course in health care organizations."

It seems to be legit, good course offerings. http://www.law.unlv.edu/health-law
I know specialties aren't as important as a school's general employment stats but they can be a bonus. Iowa has literally two health law classes (each offered once every two years) which is unfortunate.

The salary distribution graph is very interesting, I hadn't realized how polarized they tend to be. I wonder if that is just as true for Nevada specifically...? I can't seem to find info for specific states/regions on NALP.

You aren't getting it, OP. It's not enough to go to the website and say "Look at allllllll the shiny courses in health law they have!"

When you go here: https://my.unlv.nevada.edu/psp/lvporprd ... SEARCH.GBL

you see that only one: HIPAA Privacy is actually offered. The others appear to be what I call "filler classes" that are offered once every couple of years so they can say they offer them. A fifteen course list of offerings is useless if they aren't actually available...

[fliptrip]

^^Beware this specialty program stuff. You notice on this website it talks only about inputs (curricular offerings, faculty, etc.) and nothing about outputs (i.e. how is this going to help you get a job?). Your primary, if not only, concern is the outputs. Listen to the folks in this thread. Your best pathway to going in-house at a Hospital is to do biglaw at a firm with a substantial healthcare practice.

This is the sort Health Law program you should be concerned about getting into: https://www.lw.com/industries/Healthcar ... dProviders

Experience is the best teacher, OP, no doubt. But the folks who have the most success in life are the ones who can learn from the mistakes of others. You have an entire chorus of people here who have been down the roads you're travelling in a number of ways--they are significantly older than you, they have been to and through law school, etc, who are all screaming at you that you are making a big mistake. You'd really do yourself a favor if you listen.

Look, sometimes you have to be willing to be uncomfortable in order to achieve the best outcome. Sure, you'll miss SO if you go to a T-14 and he's somewhere else, but law school itself will provide you with a community to belong to and new friends who will support you (unless you're a complete ass, which it doesn't seem like you are) and also if your relationship is strong enough, it will survive. If it doesn't, life will go on.

And, the whole his mother not speaking to you because you did better on the LSAT than her son? The nerve of that woman. Why in God's name would you want to have that going on in your life when you're just starting out. You don't need it!

[magicmagic]

This is making me so sad

Since the thread is officially about UNLV, info about UNLV (even just for future applicants) is useful.

But fear not, I've been convinced to heavily consider other options. Thanks guys! I think I'll have to see what acceptances show up in the next month. If Duke/UVA/Michigan/Chicago reject me, I'll have a marginally easier decision. For the record, SO is perfectly willing to attend different schools so I could do T14, I'm just not sure.

[magicmagic]

And, the whole his mother not speaking to you because you did better on the LSAT than her son? The nerve of that woman. Why in God's name would you want to have that going on in your life when you're just starting out. You don't need it!

I think when you spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to send your kid to exclusively private schools from the age of 4 to 22, you get frustrated when the result is less than Ivy League. And the overachiever public school girlfriend doesn't help.

[fliptrip]

And, the whole his mother not speaking to you because you did better on the LSAT than her son? The nerve of that woman. Why in God's name would you want to have that going on in your life when you're just starting out. You don't need it!

I think when you spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to send your kid to exclusively private schools from the age of 4 to 22, you get frustrated when the result is less than Ivy League. And the overachiever public school girlfriend doesn't help.

Girl, you're a boss. Live the boss' life. If SO can hang, fine, if not, that's his issue. You do you.

[duck]

u should ditch ur bf asap

[heythatslife]

I think when you spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to send your kid to exclusively private schools from the age of 4 to 22, you get frustrated when the result is less than Ivy League. And the overachiever public school girlfriend doesn't help.

Wow. Just wow. Don't try to rationalize this BS behavior.

[landshoes]

And, the whole his mother not speaking to you because you did better on the LSAT than her son? The nerve of that woman. Why in God's name would you want to have that going on in your life when you're just starting out. You don't need it!

I think when you spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to send your kid to exclusively private schools from the age of 4 to 22, you get frustrated when the result is less than Ivy League. And the overachiever public school girlfriend doesn't help.

These people are trash and you're way too good for them. You don't want them to have financial power over you.

I'm not saying your boyfriend but his family.

I have literally been in the same place. Trust me on this. Independence is worth COL loans.

[fliptrip]

I think its time for a new TLS campaign:

#freemagicmagic

[landshoes]

I think its time for a new TLS campaign:

#freemagicmagic

For real. OP, you seem awesome, smart, successful, thoughtful, open-minded and kind. You are going to do well in life as long as you don't let people like this hold you back.

[landshoes]

also, when I was in high school and college I thought my mom (attorney) was a "workaholic." She used to pick me up from school almost every single day at 3pm, but I'd get pissy if she was in trial (once every few months) and sent someone else (and just met me for dinner). Which I now realize is childish, honestly. My mom wasn't at home baking lemon bars or whatever, big deal. Other kids have it way, way worse.

Now that I'm older and have perspective, I realize that she wasn't a workaholic at all. She was a successful professional woman. She did very well for us as a single mother. Since she was good at what she did, she could choose her own hours and be there for us. She did a lot of pro bono work, which I respect and admire. She was an incredible role model. We got to take cool trips and live in a comfortable house, even after her and my dad split up.

She was also the only single mom who I know who actually got to pay for her kids' college. We never had to worry about money. I got to have all the middle class experiences that make it easy for me to make conversation with interviewers, and network with other professionals. I'm set up for life in a lot of ways because of the experiences she was able to give me. And she wasn't at all absent.

[Clearly]

Well this took a strange turn.

[GreatBraffsby]

Why do you both have to go to school now?

Interesting story. His dream was always going to law school, and about six months ago he encouraged me to start looking into law because I test well and decided I didn't want to pursue history grad school. So I took the LSAT and here we all are. Law was his dream and his plan first, and he doesn't want to delay it any longer.

Unfortunately, LP doesn't test well. He's very smart, writes great papers, has presented at historical conferences, and has legal experience, but yeah, the 160 is not the best. I don't think retakes would help much.

Could you talk about why you decided not to pursue history grad school? Also have you thought about a JD/PhD joint degree? I know this forum thinks that they're generally a waste of time and money, but you're young and intelligent. If you finish school with only a JD, you might feel trapped because you went down this path only because of your boyfriend. I know it sounds great now, but 5 or so years from now you might regret all of these choices. Having the PhD you otherwise wanted might keep some options open for you (also academics do respect JDs from what I've heard from former professors). UNLV has a limited offering of joint degrees, but a PhD in Higher Education Leadership or Master in Social Work might interest you.

I haven't thoroughly researched joint degrees and can't tell you with certainty that it would be a good idea for anyone, let alone you. But with all of these moving parts (recent grad, young love, major relocation, school below your numbers, boyfriend with worse numbers, angry future mother in law), you might want to keep a back door open. I know history departments are small, specialized and competitive, but your GPA and LSAT could open some doors for you. It could be worth your time to look at the history programs at the schools you've applied to, along with the ability apply for them during your 1L year (for instance, law students at Ohio State can apply for dual degrees while enrolled in a JD program). However, it would probably be best to wait until next cycle with a fresh approach that considered joint degrees, which might beneficial for your partner too. If your boyfriend starts studying now for the June/September LSAT, there is no reason he can't improve his score with months of studying and tutorship from a 170+ girlfriend. 25 years old is definitely not too old for law school, so an extra year shouldn't matter that much if he's already set on future career, location, and life partner.

I'm saying all of this because I was interested in a PhD, but was eventually turned off by trends in academia (both job availability and otherwise). Your initial interest in grad school and your choice to attend a liberal arts college suggests to me that you want an intellectually stimulating career, or a "career that matters". Don't fall into the trap of getting a stressful, menial biglaw job just to subsidize your boyfriend's tier 2 JD (I'm assuming you don't go to UNLV in that scenario). This might be scary, but you're transitioning to the point in your life where doors stop opening and then start to close. A dual-degree, even if you don't use it, might give you more peace of mind and a feasible backup plan. Just another possibility I hadn't seen in this thread.

[A. Nony Mouse]

No no no no no no no. Don't get a PhD, and definitely don't get a PhD in history. That won't help you at all. Job prospects with a JD from UNLV are better.

Besides, it's like the JD - if you decide later you must have the PhD you can apply then. Grad schools aren't going anywhere.

[magicmagic]

I think its time for a new TLS campaign:

#freemagicmagic

Omg, you guys are the best <3 <3 <3

No no no no no no no. Don't get a PhD, and definitely don't get a PhD in history. That won't help you at all. Job prospects with a JD from UNLV are better.

Besides, it's like the JD - if you decide later you must have the PhD you can apply then. Grad schools aren't going anywhere.

That was exactly my thought process. I love Renaissance English history but I know way too many sad, underpaid, perpetually job-hunting visiting professors. Maybe in twenty years when I am financially stable, semi-retired, and bored with knitting sweaters for my children/collies.

[magicmagic]

also, when I was in high school and college I thought my mom (attorney) was a "workaholic." She used to pick me up from school almost every single day at 3pm, but I'd get pissy if she was in trial (once every few months) and sent someone else (and just met me for dinner). Which I now realize is childish, honestly. My mom wasn't at home baking lemon bars or whatever, big deal. Other kids have it way, way worse.

Now that I'm older and have perspective, I realize that she wasn't a workaholic at all. She was a successful professional woman. She did very well for us as a single mother. Since she was good at what she did, she could choose her own hours and be there for us. She did a lot of pro bono work, which I respect and admire. She was an incredible role model. We got to take cool trips and live in a comfortable house, even after her and my dad split up.

She was also the only single mom who I know who actually got to pay for her kids' college. We never had to worry about money. I got to have all the middle class experiences that make it easy for me to make conversation with interviewers, and network with other professionals. I'm set up for life in a lot of ways because of the experiences she was able to give me. And she wasn't at all absent.

Your experience was definitely better than SO's. This is so encouraging! Thank you!

[fliptrip]

1. OP, you know that the job market for PhD's in any humanities discipline is abominable. Like cover your eyes awful.

2. However, if you go to a halfway decent program, you don't have to borrow a dime and *shock* they actually pay you, so your only costs are opportunity costs. You won't be leveraged to your eyeballs, you'll just have soul-sucking regret about wasting the best years of your life. No debt though.