Why do people love to hate GULC? Forum

[03152016]

GULC - A good school whose employment numbers are under performing relative to its peer schools.

i actually disagree
i wouldn't say gulc is underperforming its peer schools

it's true that gulc employment - school funded is lower than vandy and ut, and vandy has lower underemployment
but gulc does have a slight edge on both of them in bl+fc
and a slight edge on texas in underemployment

so it might be a wash, tbh
i don't see gulc as being significantly underperforming its peer schools vandy and ut
from a pure placement perspective, that is

[nealric]

If you had bothered to read and understand what I wrote, you would see that I made no such conclusion. I simply stated that the data does not account for PI/government and that this MIGHT be part of the disparity, but freely admitted that I don't have data available to test those assumptions. The conclusion that (biglaw + clerskships= low, ergo GULC sucks) is a also making an assumption without hard evidence, since the set of generally accepted "good" outcomes includes more than biglaw + clerkships. Of course, I fully agree that biglaw + clerkships is a strong indicator.

We actually do have the data to test those assumptions.

If you add in all the real PI/Gov jobs, then over the past four years: NU 67>UVA 65>GULC 59>Vandy 51

But NU has all those business jobs, and UVA has significantly cut class size since then. The point is that even when you're nice to GULC but don't make the same allowances for other schools, GULC still is clearly worse than those ahead of it.

No one is saying that it's a bad school, it's just that the combination of extreme stinginess with scholarships and refusal to cut its gigantic class size alongside the middling employment numbers hiding behind "T14" designation just gives you SCAM goosebumps all over.

Lol. That's pretty much exactly what some people above were saying. And saying "it's not a bad school", but it's a "SCAM" is a bit of a contradiction don't you think?

On Gov't PI/Numbers - I didn't have them since I haven't been that up on these things since I graduated. Glad you do. Out of curiosity, where are those numbers from and how do other lower T14 schools do?

[McAvoy]

GULC - A good school whose employment numbers are under performing relative to its peer schools.

i actually disagree
i wouldn't say gulc is underperforming its peer schools

it's true that gulc employment - school funded is lower than vandy and ut, and vandy has lower underemployment
but gulc does have a slight edge on both of them in bl+fc
and a slight edge on texas in underemployment

so it might be a wash, tbh
i don't see gulc as being significantly underperforming its peer schools vandy and ut
from a pure placement perspective, that is

But Brut people can get scholarships from GULC that are better than Vandy and UT. Apples and Oranges.

[03152016]

Also, keep in mind, that while GULC is a worse school than its peers, it still does place 42 % of its class into big-law, a higher number than Vanderbilt at 36, though not by much, and Texas with 33 percent, so at comparable offers it would be a BETTER decision to choose GULC over those schools - unless you're in state at Texas.

we're using bl as a measure of a school's ability to place grads into top jobs, right?
so why are you excluding fed clerk?
vandy and ut have lower bl numbers bc more people are turning it down to accept prestigious clerkships

[cotiger]

No one's saying there's no situation where it makes most sense to go to GULC.

Just that those reasons are highly specific, and much more in line with why you might go to UT or Vandy (eta: well.. except for the being cheap relative to t14 reason), as opposed to making sense for a generic, geographically flexible applicant.

[nealric]

No one's saying there's no situation where it makes most sense to go to GULC.

Just that those reasons are highly specific, and much more in line with why you might go to UT or Vandy, as opposed to making sense for a generic, geographically flexible applicant.

One difference between GULC and Vandy/UT is the geographic factor. GULC tends to place in the mid-Atlantic/NE, while UT/Vandy tend to place in the south. If you want mid-Atlantic or NE, you probably aren't cross-shopping those schools.

While the biglaw placement at GULC is absolutely worse than the rest of the T14, it does get a very geographically diverse set of firms showing up to OCI- more so than the Vandy/UT set. That does speak to the generic geographically flexible applicant who may not want to live in the South after graduation.

But in the end, it doesn't really matter what "group" you put a given school in. Real applicants choose between specific choices, not categories of schools. The groups are just a starting point for an applicant thinking about law school or an employer thinking about hiring.

[runinthefront]

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[star fox]

Lol. That's pretty much exactly what some people above were saying. And saying "it's not a bad school", but it's a "SCAM" is a bit of a contradiction don't you think?

Given the fact that only 1/3 of last year's class was on any sort of merit aid, I think the best term would be "trap school" in that people are trapped into thinking they're going to some uber-elite law school.

[Rahviveh]

Bigzuck is right. Gulcs financial aid people are just the WORST to deal with.

Someone who sits on the board told me the catholic church used to run gulc and never raised any money that's why their are so poor. And probably why they won't cut class sizes like other schools have

[JCougar]

Really, law school tuition has so jumped the shark that very few schools can be considered a good bet. Used to be law school was for the risk adverse. Now, it's for the type that puts their life savings on black and spins the wheel.

Can't disagree with that. And the reality is that GULC expects the majority of the people it admits to do so.

[JCougar]

Lol. That's pretty much exactly what some people above were saying. And saying "it's not a bad school", but it's a "SCAM" is a bit of a contradiction don't you think?

Given the fact that only 1/3 of last year's class was on any sort of merit aid, I think the best term would be "trap school" in that people are trapped into thinking they're going to some uber-elite law school.

My god. I didn't realize it was THAT bad.

Honestly, all those hundreds of un(der)employed graduates they pump out each year should sue them.

[cotiger]

We actually do have the data to test those assumptions.

If you add in all the real PI/Gov jobs, then over the past four years: NU 67>UVA 65>GULC 59>Vandy 51

But NU has all those business jobs, and UVA has significantly cut class size since then. The point is that even when you're nice to GULC but don't make the same allowances for other schools, GULC still is clearly worse than those ahead of it.

No one is saying that it's a bad school, it's just that the combination of extreme stinginess with scholarships and refusal to cut its gigantic class size alongside the middling employment numbers hiding behind "T14" designation just gives you SCAM goosebumps all over.

Lol. That's pretty much exactly what some people above were saying. And saying "it's not a bad school", but it's a "SCAM" is a bit of a contradiction don't you think?

On Gov't PI/Numbers - I didn't have them since I haven't been that up on these things since I graduated. Glad you do. Out of curiosity, where are those numbers from and how do other lower T14 schools do?

Well, for example, if Yale was $500k COA w/ limited scholarships and a limited LRAP, then it too would be simultaneously not a bad school and also a scam. Not a contradiction, just a paradox.

NU and UVA have the lowest percentage in the T14 besides GULC. The rest of the lower T14 are Columbia 81>NYU 76>Penn 75>Chicago 73>Cornell 73>Berkeley 72>Duke 68>Michigan 68

You can download all of the data from the ABA website.

[20141023]

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[03152016]

as usual, 180 post by regulus

[McAvoy]

as usual, 180 post by regulus

[ymmv]

TBF that card is OP AF.

[chuckbass]

holy shit reg

[20141023]

.

[baal hadad]

TBF that card is OP AF.

Meh:

+

That combo doesn't look OP at all unless youre playing like monogreen elves

[sesto elemento]

as usual, 180 post by regulus

[baal hadad]

This card is OP

[TooManyLoans]

Just because there are sketchier parts of DC doesn't make it a great spot. It is sketchy by the law center and that's not Chinatown. The walk at night to either union station or past that cesspool shelter to judiciary square metro is shady.

Also rent in the nice buildings on mass is expensive for the "neighborhood" its in.

Never had trouble walking at night to either Judiciary Square or Union Station in 3 years. The campus is not "in" Chinatown, but it's a 5 min walk to the Chinatown strip. Yeah, walking by the homeless shelter south of campus meant getting panhandled. So don't walk past the homeless shelter- it's not hard to avoid if you find it bothersome.

The "nice" buildings on Mass are indeed wayyyy over priced. East of Union Station is a much better option.

LOL east of union station is a hell hole.

[chuckbass]

Just because there are sketchier parts of DC doesn't make it a great spot. It is sketchy by the law center and that's not Chinatown. The walk at night to either union station or past that cesspool shelter to judiciary square metro is shady.

Also rent in the nice buildings on mass is expensive for the "neighborhood" its in.

Never had trouble walking at night to either Judiciary Square or Union Station in 3 years. The campus is not "in" Chinatown, but it's a 5 min walk to the Chinatown strip. Yeah, walking by the homeless shelter south of campus meant getting panhandled. So don't walk past the homeless shelter- it's not hard to avoid if you find it bothersome.

The "nice" buildings on Mass are indeed wayyyy over priced. East of Union Station is a much better option.

LOL east of union station is a hell hole.

ty ty im convinced this guy doesn't know dc

[FKASunny]

i don't see gulc as being significantly underperforming its peer schools vandy and ut
from a pure placement perspective, that is

Actually, Vandy's latest employment numbers on LST have a slight edge of GULC.

BL + CL at GULC: 46.5%
BL + CL at Vandy: 45.1%

BUT when you factor in all types of employment (including public interest, gov., and small firm work like nealric wants to factor in) Vandy has a score of 85.9% to GULC's 83.7%.

Almost double the percentage of fed clerks, lower unemployment score, and way lower COL and more generous scholarships. GULC needs to get it together and slash their class size.

[stellina]

Actually, Vandy's latest employment numbers on LST have a slight edge of GULC.

BL + CL at GULC: 46.5%
BL + CL at Vandy: 45.1%

BUT when you factor in all types of employment (including public interest, gov., and small firm work like nealric wants to factor in) Vandy has a score of 85.9% to GULC's 83.7%.

*Including school-funded positions.

If we don't count those, it's Vandy 77.6% to GULC 72.4%