C/O 2017 Median LSAT/GPA/Class Size Forum

[Bilka]

NDLS had orientation today - any word?

[MikeJD]

UCLA/WUSTL had orientation I think. Anything from there??

[JCougar]

If Georgetown holds the 168/3.74 with such a huge class I'd be pretty impressed. Could see Georgetown and Michigan each dropping a point.

LSN already pretty much guarantees G-town is down to 167 this year.

For some splitter schools, the LSN profile will pretty clearly show whether they dropped or not.

[Colonel_funkadunk]

When is Michigan's orientation?

[ZGr88n]

When is Michigan's orientation?

Next week.

[JCougar]

I wonder if the top schools are just handing out more scholarships and/or being more aggressive with splitters and median maximization. That has to be the answer to how they're maintaining medians and yet holding class size despite the decrease in applicants.

It's probably going to affect the lower-ranked median-gaming schools the most, since there's less low-hanging fruit for them to pick this time.

[Colonel_funkadunk]

When is Michigan's orientation?

Next week.

Thank you

[Colonel_funkadunk]

I wonder if the top schools are just handing out more scholarships and/or being more aggressive with splitters and median maximization. That has to be the answer to how they're maintaining medians and yet holding class size despite the decrease in applicants.

It's probably going to affect the lower-ranked median-gaming schools the most, since there's less low-hanging fruit for them to pick this time.

I think also the cautiousness of people due to the job market can make some high scorers who maybe a few years ago would take a full ride at a regional, finance a little more to go t14. This could help hold medians at top schools but cause for a big drop outside t14 in the t50. That's just speculation tho

[ms9]

I wonder if the top schools are just handing out more scholarships and/or being more aggressive with splitters and median maximization. That has to be the answer to how they're maintaining medians and yet holding class size despite the decrease in applicants.

It's probably going to affect the lower-ranked median-gaming schools the most, since there's less low-hanging fruit for them to pick this time.

The floor has dropped at top schools for splitters, for certain. I saw so many people this past cycle get into elite schools with gpa under 3.0. Never in the past had I seen anything like it. The schools lower on the list are going to suffer from this.

[jk148706]

I wonder if the top schools are just handing out more scholarships and/or being more aggressive with splitters and median maximization. That has to be the answer to how they're maintaining medians and yet holding class size despite the decrease in applicants.

It's probably going to affect the lower-ranked median-gaming schools the most, since there's less low-hanging fruit for them to pick this time.

The floor has dropped at top schools for splitters, for certain. I saw so many people this past cycle get into elite schools with gpa under 3.0. Never in the past had I seen anything like it. The schools lower on the list are going to suffer from this.

And those schools are maintaining gpa medians.. so I'm interested why -- if they could maintain gpa medians when admitting splitters -- these schools didn't just admit splitters from the get go (as in previous years)?

ETA: guessing bc they didn't have to and now they do since drop in applicants n what not

[whitespider]

I'll be shocked if some lower ranked school don't drop quite a bit.

Apparently LSU's 2017 class is 13% bigger than their last. (http://www1.law.lsu.edu/news/2014/08/15 ... 01-strong/)

How could they not feel the pain with declining applications?

[Adrian Monk]

I wonder if the top schools are just handing out more scholarships and/or being more aggressive with splitters and median maximization. That has to be the answer to how they're maintaining medians and yet holding class size despite the decrease in applicants.

It's probably going to affect the lower-ranked median-gaming schools the most, since there's less low-hanging fruit for them to pick this time.

The floor has dropped at top schools for splitters, for certain. I saw so many people this past cycle get into elite schools with gpa under 3.0. Never in the past had I seen anything like it. The schools lower on the list are going to suffer from this.

so, as someone with a 3.5X gpa, very close to a 3.6 gpa, does it mean that a lot of schools like in the 30-50 range will want me more than previous years because schools at the top is also trying to get me. Am i interpreting this correctly? Im trying to understand how these decrease in applications affect me personally. Excluding my lsat, taking my gpa alone into consideration, how does it affect me.

[Moneytrees]

The thing that we need to keep in mind is that the decline in apps was not huge last cycle. Yes, it was around 8 or 9%, but I imagine it could be possible for most elite schools to maintain their medians for one more year.

Good news is that Spivey reported that first time test takers were down 14% for the June LSAT. Maybe if apps go down another 10% the medians at elite schools will take more of a hit.

[MikeJD]

The thing that we need to keep in mind is that the decline in apps was not huge last cycle. Yes, it was around 8 or 9%, but I imagine it could be possible for most elite schools to maintain their medians for one more year.

Good news is that Spivey reported that first time test takers were down 14% for the June LSAT. Maybe if apps go down another 10% the medians at elite schools will take more of a hit.

It was down but not for top 20 schools and a couple of other lucky ones but it was SEVERE for many. In California pretty much everyone outside of top 20 (minus UC davis and maybe one or two more) was down a lot led by UC hastings which was down over 20%.

[ms9]

The thing that we need to keep in mind is that the decline in apps was not huge last cycle. Yes, it was around 8 or 9%, but I imagine it could be possible for most elite schools to maintain their medians for one more year.

Good news is that Spivey reported that first time test takers were down 14% for the June LSAT. Maybe if apps go down another 10% the medians at elite schools will take more of a hit.

It was down but not for top 20 schools and a couple of other lucky ones but it was SEVERE for many. In California pretty much everyone outside of top 20 (minus UC davis and maybe one or two more) was down a lot led by UC hastings which was down over 20%.

As an fyi, USC was up a little under 10%

[Bilka]

The thing that we need to keep in mind is that the decline in apps was not huge last cycle. Yes, it was around 8 or 9%, but I imagine it could be possible for most elite schools to maintain their medians for one more year.

Good news is that Spivey reported that first time test takers were down 14% for the June LSAT. Maybe if apps go down another 10% the medians at elite schools will take more of a hit.

It was down but not for top 20 schools and a couple of other lucky ones but it was SEVERE for many. In California pretty much everyone outside of top 20 (minus UC davis and maybe one or two more) was down a lot led by UC hastings which was down over 20%.

As an fyi, USC was up a little under 10%

Do you have any predictions or info for NDLS?

[Adrian Monk]

I wonder if the top schools are just handing out more scholarships and/or being more aggressive with splitters and median maximization. That has to be the answer to how they're maintaining medians and yet holding class size despite the decrease in applicants.

It's probably going to affect the lower-ranked median-gaming schools the most, since there's less low-hanging fruit for them to pick this time.

The floor has dropped at top schools for splitters, for certain. I saw so many people this past cycle get into elite schools with gpa under 3.0. Never in the past had I seen anything like it. The schools lower on the list are going to suffer from this.

so, as someone with a 3.5X gpa, very close to a 3.6 gpa, does it mean that a lot of schools like in the 30-50 range will want me more than previous years because schools at the top is also trying to get me. Am i interpreting this correctly? Im trying to understand how these decrease in applications affect me personally. Excluding my lsat, taking my gpa alone into consideration, how does it affect me.

[Rigo]

I wonder if the top schools are just handing out more scholarships and/or being more aggressive with splitters and median maximization. That has to be the answer to how they're maintaining medians and yet holding class size despite the decrease in applicants.

It's probably going to affect the lower-ranked median-gaming schools the most, since there's less low-hanging fruit for them to pick this time.

The floor has dropped at top schools for splitters, for certain. I saw so many people this past cycle get into elite schools with gpa under 3.0. Never in the past had I seen anything like it. The schools lower on the list are going to suffer from this.

so, as someone with a 3.5X gpa, very close to a 3.6 gpa, does it mean that a lot of schools like in the 30-50 range will want me more than previous years because schools at the top is also trying to get me. Am i interpreting this correctly? Im trying to understand how these decrease in applications affect me personally. Excluding my lsat, taking my gpa alone into consideration, how does it affect me.

Your GPA is below median for all "top" schools so the notion that they especially want you based on your GPA alone is incorrect.
The willingness to take splitters with an even lower GPA indicates the LSAT matters even more, so you cannot exclude an LSAT score from any meaningful discussion about admissions chances.

If a school is becoming increasingly splitter friendly then, logically, it would hurt your chances more than at a school that is not becoming increasingly splitter friendly, because admissions would be more willing to take another applicant's higher LSAT despite a GPA below yours.

Now if you score high on the LSAT, then being splitter friendly would help you because top schools would be more willing to overlook your below median GPA.
Your outcomes depend on your LSAT score so study!

[lashley]

UVA is out: 169 and 3.85

[Huskies13!]

http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/news/2 ... f_2017.htm
307 students

[Hand]

[Huskies13!]

In much bigger news--OHNU is out!
http://law.onu.edu/news/4669
150
3.29
72 students

[Baby_Got_Feuerbach]

Indiana - Bloomington, overheard at orientation (and posted on a banner)

Class of 186, may have shrunk to 184.

Median LSAT of 161
Median GPA of ~3.71 (may be off by a decimal)

61/39 male to female

[gta]

UVA is out: 169 and 3.85

25%-75% LSAT: 166-170
25%-75% GPA: 3.57-3.93

So for T14 so far...

25/50/75 GPA:

Berkeley: +.01, +.01, -.01
Virginia: +.05, -.02, -.01
Duke: +.07, 0.0, +0.1

25/50/75 LSAT:

Berkeley: -2, 0, 0
Virginia: +2, 0, 0
Duke: +1, 0, 0

[MikeJD]

Class size down over 20 for Virginia.