Cooley Forum

[Aqualibrium]

So I recently got together with a new boardgame group (yeah, I'm cool like that). We're playing Shogun (also called Samurai Swords) and the older gentleman at the table asks us if we go to Berkeley. I say yes. In the ensuing questioning I inform him I'm a law student and he informs me his son is enrolled at Cooley of Michigan.

I hate seeming like I'm a pretentious asshole, but wtf do you say in that instance? Do you respond "that's awesome!" Or do you just sorta sit there with the expression hoping something happens to interrupt that awkward moment of silence.

I don't like to lie and I don't like to pretend I'm better than people.

But you do like to play Shogun the board game...




Everyone has their hobbies I suppose.

You should have said, that's cool, and moved right along btw...

[TommyK]

So I recently got together with a new boardgame group (yeah, I'm cool like that). We're playing Shogun (also called Samurai Swords) and the older gentleman at the table asks us if we go to Berkeley. I say yes. In the ensuing questioning I inform him I'm a law student and he informs me his son is enrolled at Cooley of Michigan.

I hate seeming like I'm a pretentious asshole, but wtf do you say in that instance? Do you respond "that's awesome!" Or do you just sorta sit there with the expression hoping something happens to interrupt that awkward moment of silence.

I don't like to lie and I don't like to pretend I'm better than people.

You act like a normal fucking human being with a soul and make small talk much like the father is. Christ....

Just because you realize that Cooley sucks doesn't mean that you have to act like real life is an Internet message board and let the father know. He's probably proud to have a son in law school so why go out of your way and be a douche? I hope for your sake that this is just you musing out loud and you have enough social savvy not to be perplexed by this oh-so-hard dilemma.

And for the record, lying is not the same thing of not telling everybody your every thought. It's called discretion and not exactly a difficult moral problem.

[seriously????]

Silence may be the best option.
Sure going to Cooley may be a difficult choice for many, but some of these arguments and comments actually give hope to Cooley grads.
No disrespect dude, but you have to ask what a proper response is for an obvious social cue?
It has to make a Cooley students wonder, well this kid goes to one of the best schools in the country, but he does not understand how to communicate with basic human beings. He may be smart, but no way this guy is winning a decision over me in front of jury.

And for a past comment something like " we always need more DUI lawyers." OK, I get it. Spend your life getting drunk drivers off, not too noble. But what gets done in Biglaw? Are noble and honorable actions taken? Probably not. Honor has little to do with it, it is all about money.

[sethc]

Wow, all good points. I think the father/Cooley/Berkley thing might have been satire (not sure) but I sort of have been in that position before.. not with law school at all (obviously lol) and not in a father/son context.. but sometimes one of those eek-I-want-to-make-sure-I-don't-step-on-toes-here moments.. it's all about tone, I think. Just as quickly as you can with a "OH?? Really?????" ; like you're extremely and genuinely interested how the kid is doing/how he likes it/dislikes etc.. you just gotta steer the convo a little is all, I think. It's def a thin line to skate though because I can see how people would be sensitive to rudeness in a Cooley/low-tier-LS type of convo (thanks @ TLS haha)

[TJISMYHERO]

My second cousin went to Cooley, I found out over this past Christmas break. I simply smiled and listened to her talk about her experience and asked if she had any advice for a my 1L year. ahh.. family

[serdog]

Si
And for a past comment something like " we always need more DUI lawyers." OK, I get it. Spend your life getting drunk drivers off, not too noble. But what gets done in Biglaw? Are noble and honorable actions taken? Probably not. Honor has little to do with it, it is all about money.

Whats more noble get DUIs off or get large corporation off from doing massive damage to the Earth and sell negligent products? one pays more and many top school grads will go for it. similarly I sure there will be cooley grads working in DAs offices(I remeber reading that one office in New York state was hiring cooley grads) working as a legal aid lawyer to help a mother about to be kick out of her apartment unfairly. So no matter were you go you will have noble people and immoral people

[fundamentallybroken]

Si
And for a past comment something like " we always need more DUI lawyers." OK, I get it. Spend your life getting drunk drivers off, not too noble. But what gets done in Biglaw? Are noble and honorable actions taken? Probably not. Honor has little to do with it, it is all about money.

Whats more noble get DUIs off or get large corporation off from doing massive damage to the Earth and sell negligent products? one pays more and many top school grads will go for it. similarly I sure there will be cooley grads working in DAs offices(I remeber reading that one office in New York state was hiring cooley grads) working as a legal aid lawyer to help a mother about to be kick out of her apartment unfairly. So no matter were you go you will have noble people and immoral people

No one going to school for environmental law is going to be able to admit that this is what they will be doing in four or five years.

[sethc]

Ehh.. TLS is certainly the venue, but do we want to get off on the morality of biglaw vs. DUI law?? There are good & shitty reasons for both (and I do have a side, FWIW) but it's an endless argument especially on TLS, I would think.

My M.S. degree was heavily centered around environmental/OSHA compliance law & regulations/safety management.. I think 6/7 of my main professors were all attorneys. Brilliant guys, but not the best personalities.. though after a semester, their courses certainly had a "law class" vibe big time.

It would be a huge complement (I think) to a law degree if I wanted to pursue that.. but goddamn that stuff was dry and boring as hell to me. Good shit to know, I guess. There's way too much labor law/WC stuff involved in all of that, for me.

[JusticeHarlan]

uncalled for this was.

--ImageRemoved--

[danquayle]

So I recently got together with a new boardgame group (yeah, I'm cool like that). We're playing Shogun (also called Samurai Swords) and the older gentleman at the table asks us if we go to Berkeley. I say yes. In the ensuing questioning I inform him I'm a law student and he informs me his son is enrolled at Cooley of Michigan.

I hate seeming like I'm a pretentious asshole, but wtf do you say in that instance? Do you respond "that's awesome!" Or do you just sorta sit there with the expression hoping something happens to interrupt that awkward moment of silence.

I don't like to lie and I don't like to pretend I'm better than people.

You act like a normal fucking human being with a soul and make small talk much like the father is. Christ....

Just because you realize that Cooley sucks doesn't mean that you have to act like real life is an Internet message board and let the father know. He's probably proud to have a son in law school so why go out of your way and be a douche? I hope for your sake that this is just you musing out loud and you have enough social savvy not to be perplexed by this oh-so-hard dilemma.

And for the record, lying is not the same thing of not telling everybody your every thought. It's called discretion and not exactly a difficult moral problem.

This is called I'M A LAW STUDENT AND MY EVERY THOUGHT MATTERS disease. People think they're so brilliant that not sharing their every thought amounts to a cosmic loss to the wealth of humanity.

This has come up to me dozens of times because I live in Michigan. Is it really hard to say something like, "Oh yeah, what kind of lawyer does he want to be? Or does he seem stressed? Or even how does he like Michigan?"

Fuck people, your social skills must be minimal.

[12AngryMen]

What? C'mon now, I know you all were thinking it too. "They're" instead of "their?" That's a first grade spelling correction, well inbounds. And sethc, the accusation is that you all at Cooley like Ludacris because you are so "diverse." Drake014, next time someone tells you their kid is going to Cooley you say "bless his heart!" That's Texan for "what a dumb bastard!"

[gens1tb]

So I recently got together with a new boardgame group (yeah, I'm cool like that). We're playing Shogun (also called Samurai Swords) and the older gentleman at the table asks us if we go to Berkeley. I say yes. In the ensuing questioning I inform him I'm a law student and he informs me his son is enrolled at Cooley of Michigan.

I hate seeming like I'm a pretentious asshole, but wtf do you say in that instance? Do you respond "that's awesome!" Or do you just sorta sit there with the expression hoping something happens to interrupt that awkward moment of silence.

I don't like to lie and I don't like to pretend I'm better than people.

The irony in the last sentence is overwhelming.

[androstan]

So I recently got together with a new boardgame group (yeah, I'm cool like that). We're playing Shogun (also called Samurai Swords) and the older gentleman at the table asks us if we go to Berkeley. I say yes. In the ensuing questioning I inform him I'm a law student and he informs me his son is enrolled at Cooley of Michigan.

I hate seeming like I'm a pretentious asshole, but wtf do you say in that instance? Do you respond "that's awesome!" Or do you just sorta sit there with the expression hoping something happens to interrupt that awkward moment of silence.

I don't like to lie and I don't like to pretend I'm better than people.

1) Neutral Response: "Oh, okay." Continue with board game, indicating you don't really feel like talking about school and all that junk during your fun free time playing a game.

2) Nice Response: "Oh, how does he like it there?" This is if you want to score a few brownie points with the guy.

3) Asshole Response: "lol He'll never get a job or do anything significant in his life by going there." This is if want to trade brownie points for the opportunity to look like an arrogant, know it all, tell it like it is jerk in front of your boardgame buddies.

[sethc]

So I recently got together with a new boardgame group (yeah, I'm cool like that). We're playing Shogun (also called Samurai Swords) and the older gentleman at the table asks us if we go to Berkeley. I say yes. In the ensuing questioning I inform him I'm a law student and he informs me his son is enrolled at Cooley of Michigan.

I hate seeming like I'm a pretentious asshole, but wtf do you say in that instance? Do you respond "that's awesome!" Or do you just sorta sit there with the expression hoping something happens to interrupt that awkward moment of silence.

I don't like to lie and I don't like to pretend I'm better than people.

1) Neutral Response: "Oh, okay." Continue with board game, indicating you don't really feel like talking about school and all that junk during your fun free time playing a game.

2) Nice Response: "Oh, how does he like it there?" This is if you want to score a few brownie points with the guy.

3) Asshole Response: "lol He'll never get a job or do anything significant in his life by going there." This is if want to trade brownie points for the opportunity to look like an arrogant, know it all, tell it like it is jerk in front of your boardgame buddies.

hahah well-put. I respect your departure from typical TLS etiquette.. #3 is usually just a simple "LULZ" or "LOLOLOLOLOL" or maybe some day in the future we will be able to insert memes into spoken-conversation.

[taxguy]

TJISMYHERO notes,". The LSAT is pretty good at gauging a candidate's likely success in Law School, is it always right? No. Is it a flawed test? Absolutely not. "

Response: Is it? Why not ask any lawyer what they really think of the LSAT. Most of the time they will say that it is the only test around that everyone takes; so it is necessary. However, they almost all admit that it is a questionable test at best for admission.

I can't tell you how many people I have met who way outperfomed what was expected of them from the LSAT and vice versa. Normally, you might think that maybe my experience is too limited,but I have spoken to lawyers in the hundreds if not thousands due to my presenting continuing education to them. I hear story after story of how the LSAT wasn't indicative of their performance including numerous hearsay stories of others who also were outliers from the test.

One of the brightest lawyers I know, who also graduated top of his undergrad class at Maryland barely scored 150 on the LSAT,which was his highest score by far. Yet, he graduated top 5% of his class and was a top notch lawyer. Believe me I could go on ad nauseum with stories about outliers from the test. There is something wrong with this test. There are just too many exceptions.

Personally, I think that any test that is so time sensitive as to have a majorityof the test takers not finish the exam is flawed...period. Law school gives ample time to do outlines and briefs and take tests. The LSAT shouldn't be geared to those folks that can finish the test in the allowed time frame. Anyway, that is my opinion.

[TommyK]

TJISMYHERO notes,". The LSAT is pretty good at gauging a candidate's likely success in Law School, is it always right? No. Is it a flawed test? Absolutely not. "

Response: Is it? Why not ask any lawyer what they really think of the LSAT. Most of the time they will say that it is the only test around that everyone takes; so it is necessary. However, they almost all admit that it is a questionable test at best for admission.

I can't tell you how many people I have met who way outperfomed what was expected of them from the LSAT and vice versa. Normally, you might think that maybe my experience is too limited,but I have spoken to lawyers in the hundreds if not thousands due to my presenting continuing education to them. I hear story after story of how the LSAT wasn't indicative of their performance including numerous hearsay stories of others who also were outliers from the test.

One of the brightest lawyers I know, who also graduated top of his undergrad class at Maryland barely scored 150 on the LSAT,which was his highest score by far. Yet, he graduated top 5% of his class and was a top notch lawyer. Believe me I could go on ad nauseum with stories about outliers from the test. There is something wrong with this test. There are just too many exceptions.

Personally, I think that any test that is so time sensitive as to have a majorityof the test takers not finish the exam is flawed...period. Law school gives ample time to do outlines and briefs and take tests. The LSAT shouldn't be geared to those folks that can finish the test in the allowed time frame. Anyway, that is my opinion.

And why would a lawyer be anymore qualified to judge the predictive validity of the LSAT when it comes to class rank than a non-lawyer? Your friend is an outlier. Good for him. There are many, many, many more examples of people falling right in line with where their LSAT would predict their placement.

You went to law school at a different time, when pursuing an elite education wasn't nearly as important as it is now. You entered the field when the market wasn't as competitive. You also, therefore, went to school when it wasn't nearly as important to do well on the LSAT. Like it or not, and whether it conforms to your worldview or contrasts it, much more empirical data suggest that the LSAT is strong in its predcitive powers.

[taxguy]

[
You went to law school at a different time, when pursuing an elite education wasn't nearly as important as it is now. You entered the field when the market wasn't as competitive. You also, therefore, went to school when it wasn't nearly as important to do well on the LSAT. Like it or not, and whether it conforms to your worldview or contrasts it, much more empirical data suggest that the LSAT is strong in its predcitive powers.[/quote]


Response: Yes, I did go to law school at a different time. However, when I attended University of Miami, many of us had to network well and market ourselves well to get a job. Most students couldn't just use the school to get a job.

As for empirical data, I have always known that figures lie and liers figure. I have seen some of the "empirical data" that was put out by the folks who gave you the LSAT. It is questionable at best. Moreover, if there was such as high corelation, why would almost every lawyer that I have spoken with ( and I know many lawyers) feel that the LSAT is highly questionable regarding admission? There really are too many outliers each way.

Every lawyer knows people who were given scholarships because of their high LSAT and didn't make the cut to keep these scholarships. Data that I have seen in some schools show as many as 40-50% of these kids lose their scholarships. Maybe the GPA requirements are too high,but that is another discussion. There is something wrong with the test and most lawyers know it. The problem is that there really is nothing else that anyone has come up with to replace the test.

[stintez]

So I recently got together with a new boardgame group (yeah, I'm cool like that). We're playing Shogun (also called Samurai Swords) and the older gentleman at the table asks us if we go to Berkeley. I say yes. In the ensuing questioning I inform him I'm a law student and he informs me his son is enrolled at Cooley of Michigan.

I hate seeming like I'm a pretentious asshole, but wtf do you say in that instance? Do you respond "that's awesome!" Or do you just sorta sit there with the expression hoping something happens to interrupt that awkward moment of silence.

I don't like to lie and I don't like to pretend I'm better than people.

You act like a normal fucking human being with a soul and make small talk much like the father is. Christ....

Just because you realize that Cooley sucks doesn't mean that you have to act like real life is an Internet message board and let the father know. He's probably proud to have a son in law school so why go out of your way and be a douche? I hope for your sake that this is just you musing out loud and you have enough social savvy not to be perplexed by this oh-so-hard dilemma.

And for the record, lying is not the same thing of not telling everybody your every thought. It's called discretion and not exactly a difficult moral problem.

+10000000000000000000000000000000

[LSATWIZ]

This entire thread is not very nice. People who go to Cooley know they are not as smart as you guys. You don't need to rub it in. This is intellectual bullying.

[dresden doll]

People with low LSATs may or may not be intelligent. People with high LSATs are almost always intelligent. In the light of 1) that and 2) the fact that we currently don't have any better intelligence proxies, I'd say judging a candidate by his LSAT is fair enough.

Also, these Cooley threads are tiresome and I'm somewhat ashamed of myself for contributing to one.

[stintez]

this thread is lame and full of duche bags or idoits.

[fundamentallybroken]

this thread is lame and full of duche douche bags or and idoits idiots.

We've been waiting for you.

[12AngryMen]

this thread is lame and full of duche douche bags people that got into real law schools and the people that they make fun of idoits idiotsCooley Law students (aka: Dumb Fucks).

We've been waiting for you.

[johnnyutah]

People with high LSATs are almost always intelligent.

Yeah right.

[northwood]

on paper they are.