Official Foreign Applicants Thread 2010-2011 Forum

[kazu]

Looking at the past couple years there appears to be VERY little movement before Dec 1, and even that is just the last week of Nov. I think we're just stuck waiting, unfortunately. I'm dying to know, and I may have to accept a TFA offer by Nov 22 if I'm accepted. Not sure what to do if that happens.

I'm pretty sure that most, if not all, law schools allow deferring for valid reasons such as TFA. So don't worry too much about it

[cigrainger]

Yup that interview sounds way too hard. Chicago also has all that new money floating around...could be useful. Fits the big city category too.

Do you think we'll hear anything much before Dec? Only if someone thinks we're super fabulous I guess...

Looking at the past couple years there appears to be VERY little movement before Dec 1, and even that is just the last week of Nov. I think we're just stuck waiting, unfortunately. I'm dying to know, and I may have to accept a TFA offer by Nov 22 if I'm accepted. Not sure what to do if that happens.

It may give you some bargaining power? Although from what I've seen Law Schools LOVE TFA, so perhaps they're more likely to say, fine, enjoy, come back next year. I read up on TFA for the first time, it looks amazing. It really inspired me. I just feel a little too...ancient...to do that now ie I've wasted enough time

It's two years rather than one, but I'm leaning towards just doing it if I get it. Its an opportunity I won't have further down the line. A big part of it depends on where the assignment they offer is.

[cigrainger]

Looking at the past couple years there appears to be VERY little movement before Dec 1, and even that is just the last week of Nov. I think we're just stuck waiting, unfortunately. I'm dying to know, and I may have to accept a TFA offer by Nov 22 if I'm accepted. Not sure what to do if that happens.

I'm pretty sure that most, if not all, law schools allow deferring for valid reasons such as TFA. So don't worry too much about it

You're right, they do. I'd just like to be able to weigh all my options at once rather than being speculative. It's going to take some serious thinking. It's a tremendous responsibility, and I want to make sure I'm 5000% dedicated to it. I feel like I am, but I need to be sure. Jumping ahead a little bit though! I find out if I made it to the final interview on Wednesday. Excited.

[thesybarite]

That is really exciting - good luck!!

From the little I know, I think you should go for it, dependent on location of course. I work with that local program here with smaller groups of kids doing a similar kind of thing part time, and I can honestly say that it's one of the few things I do that makes me feel as if I'm changing the world (by adding to theirs). I think the work would be infinitely rewarding, and it seems you'd be very well suited to it.

[xqhp82]

im back thesybarite

may i ask why is TFA so popular? I have seen many people on TLS doing it but I don't know much about the program myself. I do love working with kids as I have experience in teaching languages and being a mentor, what exactly makes TFA so special? law schools seem to take it as a great soft as opposed to other similar stuff...

[cigrainger]

im back thesybarite

may i ask why is TFA so popular? I have seen many people on TLS doing it but I don't know much about the program myself. I do love working with kids as I have experience in teaching languages and being a mentor, what exactly makes TFA so special? law schools seem to take it as a great soft as opposed to other similar stuff...

TFA Corps members teach in the highest need (read: 'worst') schools across the US. Teaching is hard. Teaching in communities with failing schools, huge teacher turnover, etc is harder. Much harder.

[FlanAl]

I had an RC the other day that was about Descartes and Berkeley. I saw that there were a lot of detail questions about each philosopher. I only skimmed the passage and didn't get one wrong. I find that if I know a bit about the material I can interact with the passage way easier and that makes it easier for me to figure out its main points etc..

Hey cig do you think you will teach anyways if you don't get TFA? I mean you could still get your credential (TFA requires you to do this for most schools) and apply for jobs in underprivileged areas. I'm pretty sure salaries are the same and you'd be doing the same really helpful work. I know schools love TFA but I'm not sure what the difference is between TFA and just working at a school for two years.

[Skyhook]

I hate the LSAT. I am meant to be re-taking in Oct...

I have this weekend to really go hard before I figure out whether or not to cancel. I've sort of run out of material, and I seem to flit wildly between feeling like I'm nailing it and then feeling like there's just no point

And yes, Skyhook - I'm much more prone to making errors in LR questions where I have a good knowledge of the stimulus; I don't read as closely.

You could always download stuff from Cambridge if you need material quickly.
I think most people go through the roller-coaster of good scores and bad scores.
I always get a worse score on Friday's when I am exhausted after working and getting home late Tuesday to Thursday. On the plus side, Saturday is always much much better and show a fair assessment of my ability!

Deciding to cancel/defer is going to be tough.
How many sections have you been taking on a PT?
Do you see enough consistency with a range of questions?
Without knowing your general scoring and targets it's a little hard to offer any substantial advice.
This is my 3rd time taking the test so I know what test day is like.

[xqhp82]

TFA Corps members teach in the highest need (read: 'worst') schools across the US. Teaching is hard. Teaching in communities with failing schools, huge teacher turnover, etc is harder. Much harder.

I see. That's a really good cause though, you definitely should go for it! I know it's gona be hard, I'm going to take up a part-time job this year tutoring high school students from lower socioeconomic backgrounds who don't enjoy studying and I have to pursuade them to go to college. but i'm sure it's rewarding.

I had an RC the other day that was about Descartes and Berkeley. I saw that there were a lot of detail questions about each philosopher. I only skimmed the passage and didn't get one wrong. I find that if I know a bit about the material I can interact with the passage way easier and that makes it easier for me to figure out its main points etc..

when I first read your post I swear I spent a good 10 seconds thinking 'what does Descartes have to say about Berkeley law school?" law school apps have done a great job at brainwashing me! Which PT is it though? I have done all the RC passages from Pt1-57 and still havnt come across this one. As a social scientist (phil+psych+politics) I came across this RC passage about the integration of science and humanities which fits perfectly to my degree but I did very badly on it haha. Outside knowledge certainly can be detrimental...

[Skyhook]

I had an RC the other day that was about Descartes and Berkeley. I saw that there were a lot of detail questions about each philosopher. I only skimmed the passage and didn't get one wrong. I find that if I know a bit about the material I can interact with the passage way easier and that makes it easier for me to figure out its main points etc..

I can't say I'm that widely read, so I do enjoy those humanities, history, legal area questions in the RC. Quite informative and the interest helps me be active.
I don't struggle with the science ones either. I find the concepts pretty straightforward whatever the subject matter. Alas my particular specialization has never been addressed. I find the science very interesting and almost, almost, start to get engrossed by it, but then the ticking clock is ever present to keep me on track!

Args.... never used to like those ones about moral actions and some other philosophy areas. I like the ones with unrepresentative samples. They waive a flag like they're a car dealership and it's a public holiday!

[xqhp82]

On a side note...what did you guys give your professors who wrote your LORs? I was going to get them something from China but totally forgot about it, now I only have half a day to search for things after I finish my LSAT and head back to England...I want to give them something special than wine/chocolate, my dad said just write a nice thank you card with a small gift e.g. Chinese lucky knots will do. I think thank you card is a must but the lucky knot idea just seems a bit cliched to me. any ideas?

[FlanAl]

It was in the Kaplan 180 book so it probably wasn't in a PT.

I got my LOR people stuff from America that I thought they'd like. I got one a couple boxes of EmergenC (like powdered vitamins that you pour into water to make a drink). I got them for way cheaper in the States than you can in the UK and I know she'll use them. I got my other LOR a bottle of beer from a micro-brew from my hometown. I still don't know if he liked it. I think he saw the gift for the LOR more of an ass kissing move than anything, haha. Yeah I had a hard time getting a read on whether or not it was conventional to do this in the UK. Even after four years some cultural barriers were just not breached.

[xqhp82]

I think he saw the gift for the LOR more of an ass kissing move than anything, haha. Yeah I had a hard time getting a read on whether or not it was conventional to do this in the UK. Even after four years some cultural barriers were just not breached.

Yea i'm really concerned about this. I think it's kind of a universal courtesy to give someone a small gift for recognizing their effort, but I don't want to overdo it or anything. Americans seem very open about this but both of my recommenders are super traditionally British and I have no clue whether they like these things. I still have to depend on one of them this year for my dissertation so I don't want anything to ruin our relationship...including any potentially ass kissing move.

[cigrainger]

I simply gave a sincere thank you to both of my recommenders. I had a pretty good relationship with them anyway. I think there was a sense of impropriety around gifts for professors, at least at my school.

[thesybarite]

im back thesybarite

may i ask why is TFA so popular? I have seen many people on TLS doing it but I don't know much about the program myself. I do love working with kids as I have experience in teaching languages and being a mentor, what exactly makes TFA so special? law schools seem to take it as a great soft as opposed to other similar stuff...

Ya you're back.

Re the gifts with for LORS, I was ridiculously slack. Thanked them at the time, but should have done more...especially seeing I need to now re-send them due to a really idiotic mistake I made on LSAC when I named the forms (to one school...)

It is something I'm dreading doing but really must get onto...On the upside I have school specific LORS for my highest reach, so i guess that can't hurt??

[thesybarite]

Ok it's morning pre-caffeine. That'll teach me. It's meant to say

"YAY you're BACK!!"

[hilaryd]

Hey!

I'm glad I was referred to this thread! It's seriously helpful! I have three questions that I'm hopi ng someone will be able to answer! Do I need to explain the reason I want to move back to the US to study law in my personal statement? Secondly, do I need to provide law schools with an explanation of the UK UG grading system? Thirdly, from what I've gathered from this thread, law schools weight LSAT scores most heavily for foreign students, so does this mean that I can apply to any school as long as my LSAT score is within their 25%/75% ranges? I'm currently scoring 168-170 in PrepTests and I'm working at an average 2i level (64%), if this makes any difference?!

[thesybarite]

Hey - so here is my two cents, none of it is authoritative though.

1.) I don't think you HAVE to explain why you want to move back to the US, but it may be helpful?
I didn't.

2.) I don't think you need to provide an explanation of the grading system, the report compiled by LSAC is probably the only legitimate way of doing this (as it places all internationals through the same process making it vaguely fair - debatable). Have you submitted transcripts yet?

3.) LSAT...yes, it seems to be weighted heavily from what we can tell. I personally have a somewhat different opinion to a lot of people, with regards to LSAT score and where you apply. I fully understand the percentiles, but I wonder if people sometimes forget that 25% of students are UNDER that level...sometimes that's 100 students in a school. Obviously this would be more of a reach than a target school, but I think it's still worth giving it a shot - particularly if there are some other aspects of your app that are outstanding.

Hope that helps, and welcome to the thread

[cigrainger]

Hey - so here is my two cents, none of it is authoritative though.

1.) I don't think you HAVE to explain why you want to move back to the US, but it may be helpful?
I didn't.

2.) I don't think you need to provide an explanation of the grading system, the report compiled by LSAC is probably the only legitimate way of doing this (as it places all internationals through the same process making it vaguely fair - debatable). Have you submitted transcripts yet?

3.) LSAT...yes, it seems to be weighted heavily from what we can tell. I personally have a somewhat different opinion to a lot of people, with regards to LSAT score and where you apply. I fully understand the percentiles, but I wonder if people sometimes forget that 25% of students are UNDER that level...sometimes that's 100 students in a school. Obviously this would be more of a reach than a target school, but I think it's still worth giving it a shot - particularly if there are some other aspects of your app that are outstanding.

Hope that helps, and welcome to the thread

I agree with thesybarite on most of this, but I think that those people below 25% are usually URMs, reverse splitters (high GPA/low LSAT) and/or superhuman softs. Reaches happen sometimes, but you just have to be realistic with yourself and recognize that even if you have a 'superior' it is NOT the same as a 4.0 offsetting a below median LSAT.

Edit: That all being said, I applied to 3 schools where my LSAT is below median (not by much) and ED to a school where my LSAT is one point below median.

[xqhp82]

yeah, i also think that applying to a few more reaches is good. Afterall it's the law schools that decide who they want, we shouldn't really limit ourselves into thinking that "i'm only fit for certain schools". I don't want to leave myself with the question 'what if I apply...' for the rest of my life. you'll never find out unless you try. but of course, don't expect too much.

[cigrainger]

yeah, i also think that applying to a few more reaches is good. Afterall it's the law schools that decide who they want, we shouldn't really limit ourselves into thinking that "i'm only fit for certain schools". I don't want to leave myself with the question 'what if I apply...' for the rest of my life. you'll never find out unless you try. but of course, don't expect too much.

That's exactly it.

[cigrainger]

Okay so I'm going to compile answers to FAQs etc for foreign applicants in the OP. Which questions do you think I should include?

[thesybarite]

Definitely something covering gpa/LSAC academic summary reports.

[cigrainger]

Been busy, I'll edit the OP today. But to let you guys know, if you don't have a GPA because you went to a foreign undergrad but you have a decently high LSAT, you are eligible for merit-based fee waivers. I sent emails out to some schools and they said 'oh yeah, you've probably been overlooked because you don't have a GPA, here you go'. I wish I had sent them out earlier. As it stands, UCLA and Mich will be getting applications from me now. And I should say the Mich admissions office is probably the nicest I've received an email from yet.

I'll also point out that NU did not even read my email. They just sent a form email back saying if I wanted a merit-based waiver I should activate CRS, even though I specifically mentioned CRS in my email. One less application for them! I might have forked out anyway if they said no to the fee waiver, but I am really turned off that they couldn't take the time to read a two line email.

[thesybarite]

That's really good to know Cig thanks. I thought I saw you say something about that on the Misc thread somewhere but then I lost it.

I need to get emailing with regards to this.

That's a shame about NU. It makes such a difference doesn't it, the tone and alacrity with which they respond. Which is a shame, because it's probably just one poorly paid person having a bad day...