This is Horrifying... Forum

[JTX]

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[Leeroy Jenkins]

O RLY? You misunderstood my point.

What's you point then. You don't need to be smart to get a good GPA, but you do need to be smart to get a good LSAT score. And people with sub 3.0 GPAs do up and get 170s all the time.

if you get a sub 3.0 in a joke major like criminal justice, you're either extremely lazy or just dumb. Neither characteristic is conducive to getting a good lsat. anyhow, most people with a sub-3.0 don't get higher than 170. why do you think that is

[honestabe84]

O RLY? You misunderstood my point.

What's you point then. You don't need to be smart to get a good GPA, but you do need to be smart to get a good LSAT score. And people with sub 3.0 GPAs do up and get 170s all the time.

if you get a sub 3.0 in a joke major like criminal justice, you're either extremely lazy or just dumb. Neither characteristic is conducive to getting a good lsat. anyhow, most people with a sub-3.0 don't get higher than 170. why do you think that is

Most people with a GPA greater than 3.0 don't get a 170 either.

[JTX]

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[Leeroy Jenkins]

Most people with a GPA greater than 3.0 don't get a 170 either.

so what? that fact is an irrelevant one to the issue at hand

[JTX]

Most people with a GPA greater than 3.0 don't get a 170 either.

so what? that fact is an irrelevant one to the issue at hand

it could be relevant... anything to indicate that 3.7 is more likely to post 170+ than a 2.9? it is a self selecting population of test takers.

[Leeroy Jenkins]

it could be relevant... anything to indicate that 3.7 is more likely to post 170+ than a 2.9? it is a self selecting population of test takers.

Assuming it were self-selecting, then the population self-selects out those who think they aren't intellectually capable of becoming lawyers, leaving those who think they can. The ones who think they can take the test and those who do well end up going to law school where they either graduate or get filtered out by 1L. In either case the end result is, if we assume someone who graduates from law school as being someone who is certifiable to become a lawyer, expected and non contradicting to the idea that law school should groom people to become lawyers.

granted, the existence of shit for-profit law schools disproves an underlying assumption of this line of reasoning, it does nothing to suggest that people with sub-3.0s are automatically unfit to become lawyers like some kind of moronic litmus test, which was the original argument put forth.

[JTX]

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[ggocat]

To everybody railing against the ABA for not limiting the number of accredited law schools, remember that the ABA was sued by the United States in 1995 for having anti-competitive accreditation policies (i.e., limiting the number of accredited law schools): http://www.justice.gov/atr/cases/americ1.htm.

[PDaddy]

Yes. I don't know a WHOLE lot about medical school, but I'm pretty sure you would not have chance at getting accepted with a 2.9 GPA (even though its in Bio) no matter what your MCAT score is. In law school you can major in psyche or criminal justice, get a 2.9, score a 173 on the LSAT, and still get into at least a tier 1.

Agreed. People with <3.0 gpa's getting into law school period is a fucking joke.

How so. Shouldn't the major and the types of courses matter? What about grade ttrend? GPA's don't happen in a vacuum. What if that <3.0 is in Physics and Chemistry and the person overcame a life-threatening illness during his/her junior year...at M.I.T.?

You stated your proposition as "...People with <3.0 gpa's...joke". You are saying, "All people with <3.0 gpa's...joke.

Btw, you're wrong about med school admissions.

[JTX]

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[PDaddy]

No matter what DH2O says, I make perfect sense...and I'm waaaaay better looking. I look like my avatar, and he looks like his avatar. lol. Typical coward...can't think, follows and doesn't lead...thinks of everything in terms of "white". Just a sad case really.

[JustDude]

Medical has an O.D. which is easier to get than a M.D.

I assume you mean D.O. which today has really 0.001% difference from an M.D. They are all together easier to get into than MD schools yet there are D.O. school's more selective than some M.D.'s. Even still, easier to get into is still very relative. If you have a 2.5 UGPA and a 23P MCAT you aren't going to a Caribbean medical school let alone a D.O. school in the states. Whereas comparative GPA and LSAT has you auto-admit and Tier 4.

Credited.

D.O. grads averages may be 0.few and few points lower then M.D. grads averages for GPA and MCAT respectively. And 50% of O.D. are going o primary care and 50% are going to do something not connected with medicine. So, its a drastic decrease in opportunities.

[honestabe84]

No matter what DH2O says, I make perfect sense...and I'm waaaaay better looking. I look like my avatar, and he looks like his avatar. lol. Typical coward...can't think, follows and doesn't lead...thinks of everything in terms of "white". Just a sad case really.

What's that supposed to mean?

[D. H2Oman]

No matter what DH2O says, I make perfect sense...and I'm waaaaay better looking. I look like my avatar, and he looks like his avatar. lol. Typical coward...can't think, follows and doesn't lead...thinks of everything in terms of "white". Just a sad case really.

What's that supposed to mean?

She thinks I'm a racist because I called her "racial dating theory" (best way I can describe her rant) crazy

[BaiAilian2013]

No matter what DH2O says, I make perfect sense...and I'm waaaaay better looking. I look like my avatar, and he looks like his avatar. lol. Typical coward...can't think, follows and doesn't lead...thinks of everything in terms of "white". Just a sad case really.

Dude, did you see his old selftar? He's fucking hot.

[D. H2Oman]

No matter what DH2O says, I make perfect sense...and I'm waaaaay better looking. I look like my avatar, and he looks like his avatar. lol. Typical coward...can't think, follows and doesn't lead...thinks of everything in terms of "white". Just a sad case really.

Dude, did you see his old selftar? He's fucking hot.

Overstatement appreciated


But seriously, I've always thought 180 LSATers had great taste in men.

[JustDude]

The quality of a law school is primarily based on the caliber of the students that attend them. For example, the education at Columbia is not significantly better than at Cornell.

You mean they value thickness over length??? So If I am a splitter with a very thick fiveincher I can get into T14?

[FLINUM2147]

As informative as these forums can be it can be so hard to wade through all the shit sometimes. Everyone on here who got into a top 20 would like to think that their starting salaries out of law school will be twice that of a t4 student. All of their flaming and venting is their way of constantly reminding other posters why they should enjoy a more fulfilling career. I agree that a score in the forties doesn't bode very well for admissions, but none of you on here can say without a doubt that any of these t4'ers will be making crap salaries in the public field. Two of my friends who have graduated from t4 schools from different states are earning very decent starting salaries. I myself am now entering my fourth year in undergrad and my dec. score was a 168 and I plan to retake in the summer. Either way I would like to think that most of the posters on here would actually like to help others with helpful advice , instead of boosting their own egos.

[Leeroy Jenkins]

As informative as these forums can be it can be so hard to wade through all the shit sometimes. Everyone on here who got into a top 20 would like to think that their starting salaries out of law school will be twice that of a t4 student. All of their flaming and venting is their way of constantly reminding other posters why they should enjoy a more fulfilling career. I agree that a score in the forties doesn't bode very well for admissions, but none of you on here can say without a doubt that any of these t4'ers will be making crap salaries in the public field. Two of my friends who have graduated from t4 schools from different states are earning very decent starting salaries. I myself am now entering my fourth year in undergrad and my dec. score was a 168 and I plan to retake in the summer. Either way I would like to think that most of the posters on here would actually like to help others with helpful advice , instead of boosting their own egos.

they aren't boosting their own egos as much as they are stating the facts

[r6_philly]

As informative as these forums can be it can be so hard to wade through all the shit sometimes. Everyone on here who got into a top 20 would like to think that their starting salaries out of law school will be twice that of a t4 student. All of their flaming and venting is their way of constantly reminding other posters why they should enjoy a more fulfilling career. I agree that a score in the forties doesn't bode very well for admissions, but none of you on here can say without a doubt that any of these t4'ers will be making crap salaries in the public field. Two of my friends who have graduated from t4 schools from different states are earning very decent starting salaries. I myself am now entering my fourth year in undergrad and my dec. score was a 168 and I plan to retake in the summer. Either way I would like to think that most of the posters on here would actually like to help others with helpful advice , instead of boosting their own egos.

What's a decent starting salary? Are they top of the class? What are the median starting salaries of their schools? What percent of their school make "decent" starting salaries?

Anecdotal evidence of a couple of friends is not representative of the realistic employment prospects of a typical T4 student. If you are trying convince people to use your friends as guides rather than the publicly available stats from the schools themselves, you are the one doing a disservice.

Are you going to take a full ride at a T4 instead of T20 with your 168? Why retake? It's way too much to get a full ride at a decent non T20 school?

[FLINUM2147]

One of them has around a 68,000 starting salary and I the other is more in the early seventies. My gpa is a 3.6 right now but it should improve by the time I graduate. Although many poster state the facts, they only state the facts that are in their favor. Just because a poster uses facts doesn't mean that he/she isn't boosting his own ego. Statistically these students are at a disadvantage when it comes to starting salaries, but And tuition at t4 can vary wildly from 13,000 a year to 45,000 so in the end while one t20 student could be making 80,000 starting with a 140,000 + debt, a t4 student could be making 65,000 with a 40,000 debt. It is all relative. Who is to say that a hard working t4 student couldn't surpass the t20 by the time their loans are paid off.

[honestabe84]

By smart, you mean what? You're putting entirely too much faith in the LSAT.

^^ low LSAT sour grapes?

Actually a couple months of prep can do wonders for an LSAT score. Try making up for a shit GPA in one summer & get back to me.

Almost anyone can get an outstanding GPA with enough effort (greater than 3.. Not everyone can get an outstanding LSAT score (greater than 170). In other words, you can study nonstop and get a good GPA, but no matter how much someone studies, most people cannot get a 170.

[FLINUM2147]

I wasn't trying to convince anyone through my anecdote. Although I will most likely end up in a t50 school, I wouldn't look down on anyone just because they attend a t4. If someone is terrible at reading and writing then they suck at life in general. If you want to target a specific t4 school for allowing these people to be accepted then I find nothing wrong in advising people to not attend that school, but just lumping it together with all t4's is a ridiculous elitist attitude.

[honestabe84]

As informative as these forums can be it can be so hard to wade through all the shit sometimes. Everyone on here who got into a top 20 would like to think that their starting salaries out of law school will be twice that of a t4 student. All of their flaming and venting is their way of constantly reminding other posters why they should enjoy a more fulfilling career. I agree that a score in the forties doesn't bode very well for admissions, but none of you on here can say without a doubt that any of these t4'ers will be making crap salaries in the public field. Two of my friends who have graduated from t4 schools from different states are earning very decent starting salaries. I myself am now entering my fourth year in undergrad and my dec. score was a 168 and I plan to retake in the summer. Either way I would like to think that most of the posters on here would actually like to help others with helpful advice , instead of boosting their own egos.

they aren't boosting their own egos as much as they are stating the facts

Yes, there are some people on here that are merely stating the facts. However, there are many people that have taken it upon themselves to denigrate anyone not going to a top school at any chance they get. As if they are doing this because they're legitimately concerned about the career prospects of some random person on the internet. There is a difference from providing advice and trying to belittle others. Most people on here (that get into debates when people say that TTTs and TTTTs can be successful) are just trying to stroke their egos.

If someone was actually trying to give others the facts they would say something like, "The prospects coming from those schools are not good, and I would not advise attending." And if they couldn't convince that person they would leave it alone. But that's not what most people say. It's usually "You're so stupid for even considering going to a school outside of the top 14. How do you not understand that you're going to be a destitute loser by the time you're 50." Even if there is no convincing someone of their position, these people will continue to debate that person for some reason.