PS Draft Feedback - Be rough, loves Forum

Androlaw · Post by **Androlaw** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:58 am

blrgh

rinkrat19 · Post by **rinkrat19** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:01 am

Stopped reading after the first paragraph. Talking about how you'd be perfectly willing lie to law enforcement for your family is probably not the best thing to share with law schools. Or the state bar.

Androlaw · Post by **Androlaw** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:10 am

Eek, at least break out the lube first.

If you had bothered to keep reading on, you would discover that I am not perfectly willing to lie to law enforcement.

Then again, to be fair, nothing in that paragraph indicated that a seven year old me was wiling to do that. In fact my hesitance to lie to avoid the hypothetical imprisonment of my mother for another hypothetical murder I feel signifies the opposite. I'll edit it to make that point more clear.

Anywhoo thanks for your feedback!

rinkrat19 · Post by **rinkrat19** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:14 am

Androlaw wrote:Then again, to be fair, nothing in that paragraph indicated that a seven year old me was wiling to do that, in fact my hesitance signifies the opposite.

hm.

That's when she imparted a lesson to me. Even if you have to lie, make yourself unhappy, or go against things you believe, you do it, because nothing is more important than your duty to your family.

Maybe you meant that to be what your mother told you, but seven-year-old you was just so terribly honest and virtuous that you of course disagreed. But in that case, the second part got left off.

Androlaw · Post by **Androlaw** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:18 am

Again, not to be rude, but I am definitely not implying that I was a paragon of virtue at 7.

What I am saying however, is that the rest of my essay details my struggle with this concept which I was taught as a child, and ends with my ultimate rejection of it.

rinkrat19 · Post by **rinkrat19** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:24 am

Androlaw wrote:Again, not to be rude, but I am definitely not implying that I was a paragon of virtue at 7.

What I am saying however, is that the rest of my essay details my struggle with this concept which I was taught as a child, and ends with my ultimate rejection of it.

And what I'm saying is that no matter how much you explain and qualify it in the rest of the essay, the first paragraph is what hits the reader first and it's likely to stick with them. You know what they say about first impressions.

YOU know what's coming and know how much weight to give the first paragraph. The reader isn't in your brain to see what you're trying to tell them, and hasn't read the essay a thousand times already. I am a fresh reader, like an adcomm, and that first paragraph is a bad idea in its current form.

Androlaw · Post by **Androlaw** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:31 am

I'm definitely aware of that, but thank you for reiterating it for me.

I guess my issue is that, I want it to be something that sticks with the reader, because it is something that sticks with me and epitomizes my struggle throughout my life.

I'm interested in what specific word indicated to you that I agreed with the lesson of my mother, because my treatment of it seems to me to be pretty value neutral, which I guess is the problem.

Putting aside of course the realization that since we aren't all paragons of virtue, a 7 year old might find it difficult to put their mother in jail, in the service of staying on the right side of the law.

rinkrat19 · Post by **rinkrat19** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:53 am

Androlaw wrote:I'm definitely aware of that, but thank you for reiterating it for me.

I guess my issue is that, I want it to be something that sticks with the reader, because it is something that sticks with me and epitomizes my struggle throughout my life.

I'm interested in what specific word indicated to you that I agreed with the lesson of my mother, because my treatment of it seems to me to be pretty value neutral, which I guess is the problem.

Putting aside of course the realization that since we aren't all paragons of virtue, a 7 year old might find it difficult to put their mother in jail, in the service of staying on the right side of the law.

You fail to indicate you had any reservations, then or now, with what your mother told you, when you restate her "lesson" without qualification. And you used the word "taught" and not "told," which implies at least some acceptance of the lesson.

If you want to make it clear that you struggled with the lesson, SAY SO.

my version wrote: When I was seven years old, my mother told me I should be prepared to lie for family. Perhaps she never stated it so baldly, but the day she was driving me to my aunt's house and rear-ended the car in front of us, she first asked if I was all right and then told me that if anyone asked me, the car in front of us had stopped suddenly. She got out of the car to exchange information with the other driver, leaving me to ponder that.

When my mother returned to the car, I told her that if I said what she had told me to say, I would be lying. She asked me if I knew what happened to people who kill other people. I said I did. She asked me if I would want her to go to jail. I said of course I didn't. Then she asked me, if I knew she had killed someone, and the police asked me, would I tell the truth knowing that she would go to jail. Understandably, I hesitated over my reply. It wasn't until much later that I fully understood how manipulative my mother's argument had been that day.

It's waaaaaaaaaay too long, also. 4.5 pages. Most schools want 2-3 pages, and some have a limit of 2.

03152016 · Post by **03152016** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:58 am

you have the makings of a great ps
don't spell things out too much, though:

Even if you have to lie, make yourself unhappy, or go against things you believe, you do it, because nothing is more important than your duty to your family.

I started to do things that would firmly cement my heterosexuality.

My adolescent angst compounded my resentment of the burden of expectations placed on me. Then I became angry at myself for failing to live up to those expectations. My depression caused my grades to suffer.

Due to my own experiences with oppression I was drawn to the study of injustice naturally encompassed by the political sciences.

03152016 · Post by **03152016** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:59 am

you obviously have points you want to make, but weave them into the narrative

Androlaw · Post by **Androlaw** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:55 am

@rinkrat19

Thanks a lot for your advice. You are right in the sense that it's better to be safe than sorry at that point in the narrative with the implications the reader might receive from what they are reading. I appreciate your suggestion for working towards a clearer rewrite.

I'm also aware of the page limitations. On the application it states that I can write up to 3 pages with font no smaller than 10. I'm clearly taking full advantage of that with three pages at font size 10.5. Do you think it would be that detrimental if I took advantage of the leeway?

@Brut

Thanks so much for the encouragement. I'm definitely struggling with cohesion, particularly because it's a concept that is totally alien to the narrative. The moments I'm using right now to illustrate the narrative are very abrupt turning points. I think if I narrowed the scope down from being 7 until now, I could probably mitigate some of that abruptness.

If there is a part I could condense it would probably be paragraphs 4-7. Do you think that would be wise?

Again, I just want to say thank you to both of you, thanks for being up at this ungodly hour, and taking the time to help me through this. I appreciate it.

rinkrat19 · Post by **rinkrat19** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:06 am

I always fall on the side of following instructions to the letter. Even at 10 pt font, I still have it reaching 2 lines into the 4th page. If you are really set on this lengthy version, I would cut the paragraph about your thesis. It doesn't add anything to the overall theme.

But I also fall on the side of things that believes that brevity is better and that there's no need to use all the space just because it's there. We are not Joyce or Hemingway; our writing can nearly ALWAYS be improved by being trimmed.

Are you only applying to one school? That's usually a bad plan. Even if there is a reason that you absolutely must attend one specific school, scholarship leverage is gained by getting accepted to other schools and playing them against each other.

Androlaw · Post by **Androlaw** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:20 am

Agh that blows. I haven't had a chance to to open this at the library yet, and since I'm not using word on my computer the formatting is off.

I'll be working on this tomorrow and taking all your edits into mind. If you're wanting for something to do, stop by at the end of the day, hopefully I'll have a rewrite posted here.

I think it's about time to call it a night. I'm pretty sure it's a crime anyway to be working on an application this late on a Saturday.

Androlaw · Post by **Androlaw** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:27 am

Also I'm not really set on this essay in it's current form, but I am expecting to just rework this one as opposed to starting from scratch.

I've written about three different rough drafts including this one. This one is however the only one that includes the infamous why law school aspect, however wrenched in it may be. So I decided to pick this one to work on mostly, and tweak the others on the side in case I need a different kind of essay for certain apps.

MistakenGenius · Post by **MistakenGenius** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:15 am

Post removed.

Androlaw · Post by **Androlaw** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:36 am

@MistakenGenius

So is it the single worst thing you've read(Simon Cowell, is that you?) because of your insight into the mind of adcomms, or because objectively speaking you don't like it?

It may be surreal but the culture of the Balkans is historically clan based, and often conceives itself as contra to the (Ottoman) government. As individuals coming from that background, my parents carry that with them. Their distrust of anything outside of family I think is further compounded by their being immigrants.

It also may sound melodramatic, but my entire life has been defined within the conflict between what I believe and what I knew was expected of me. Like literally when I was 5 my parents told me if I didn't turn out the way they wanted me to, like my brothers did, then they would consider themselves failures. If I even slightly deviated from their vision they would say things like," I guess you want to turn out like your brothers."

I'm definitely taking the criticism that I need be more aware of where I stand ethically in contrast to the ideals of my parents. I realize it is definitely a mistake to leave out my reservations regarding their moral lessons from the first paragraph, and I'll be reworking it in light of that.

A really big question I have, that could help me condense this essay a lot, is the level of descriptiveness expected by adcomms.

Taking for example, your criticism that I should just go with saying that I attempted to embody stereotypically boyhood traits. Do you suggested that, because the moments I'm using to impart that idea right now are in your opinion inappropriate, or because you think it would carry the same weight as elucidating the point?

Thanks for taking the time out to read this by the way!

MistakenGenius · Post by **MistakenGenius** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 5:23 am

Post removed.

Liz18 · Post by **Liz18** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 5:30 am