When would a DS hurt you? Forum

(Personal Statement Examples, Advice, Critique, . . . )
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seashell.economy

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Re: When would a DS hurt you?

Post by seashell.economy » Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:38 pm

MistakenGenius wrote:Come on Seashell, I like you on other threads, stop being wrong in this one. People here often have great advice, but they also constantly parrot the bad advice they've received like it's gospel. You also need to be careful who you're getting your information from. There is nothing anywhere that says diversity statements should be one page. I actually don't know anyone who had a one page DS. It's the exact same with law school resumes. I certainly wouldn't go past 2 pages, but more than 1 page would be fine.

And Tawny, this sounds like it could be a very interesting DS. I would probably not use it as a personal statement, since not every but most personal statements should at least touch on why you want to go to law school (both Asha and JS have said this). But yeah, I think it could be a home run, and I'd enjoy reading it.
Haha, def not parroting advice I see on here (at least not on this post...) I kept my DS to one page because every law school application I am looking at (12 in total) says your DS is both optional and brief. I think "brief" means one page or less in this circumstance (an admissions packet that already has a personal statement, possibly an addendum, and a lot of other material in it.) I agree that reaching two pages is too long for a DS. But what do you want to submit instead? A page and a half? Put your font at 11pt and fit it on one page. It presents nicer and definitively falls under the meaning of "brief" for this purpose. You don't want to disregard the instructions...

So, that's my take on the legitimacy of saying a DS should be limited to one page.

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MistakenGenius

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mist4bison

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Re: When would a DS hurt you?

Post by mist4bison » Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:58 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:No, diversity of interest doesn't count. I mean this is in the nicest possible way, but I would not offer that as a diversity statement. It could be part of a PS, easily, but unless you've done some really unusual/extreme/interesting things (like, you were an environmental activist who chained herself to a tree for three months or the like), a white middle class girl wanting to save animals really is not adding any diversity. (And even then, it's likely better as a PS.)
Wait, you'd consider that DS worthy? I only ask because I've done shit like this. I always figured it would be PS-worthy if anything. However, I kind of thought that writing about being an activist who is doing things that are technically not legal (I.e., trespassing, etc.) wouldn't be something to showcase in an app. Very curious about this now, because I'm going back and forth on whether my PS should be about activism or childhood abuse. Might make a post about this now.

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: When would a DS hurt you?

Post by A. Nony Mouse » Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:10 pm

Yeah, I should backpedal a little, in that I don't know whether it would work as a DS (or as a PS). I meant more that if you wanted to do a DS about animal law, it would need to be something pretty unusual (growing up in a different culture with a very different attitude toward animals than in the US might be a better example - e.g a religion with animal sacrifice or something). But don't take that as a wholesale endorsement of doing an animal law DS statement.

Personally, I think a PS about activism could be great, if done well, and couched in a kind of "here are my past experiences, I learned a ton, I concluded the methods were really really a problem and going through the legal system would be more productive" way. But that's totally a personal opinion and I'm not an adcom - it would probably depend on what exactly you did, how long ago it was, and what else you've done. I think it would be a shame for a law school to reject someone who has the kind of background that could be really helpful for future activism (and hey, law schools have accepted convicted felons, right?). But I understand the concern about using it.

Also, it would depend on whether it's part of your overall narrative. If you really do want to go to law school to continue that work by legal means, it could be very effective. If that stuff is all really in the past and you want to go to law school for something else entirely, like tax, then no, don't bring it up.

(Have you asked Spivey et al? I feel like this is the kind of question that they could actually provide a helpful answer for.)

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MistakenGenius

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mist4bison

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Re: When would a DS hurt you?

Post by mist4bison » Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:16 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Yeah, I should backpedal a little, in that I don't know whether it would work as a DS (or as a PS). I meant more that if you wanted to do a DS about animal law, it would need to be something pretty unusual (growing up in a different culture with a very different attitude toward animals than in the US might be a better example - e.g a religion with animal sacrifice or something). But don't take that as a wholesale endorsement of doing an animal law DS statement.

Personally, I think a PS about activism could be great, if done well, and couched in a kind of "here are my past experiences, I learned a ton, I concluded the methods were really really a problem and going through the legal system would be more productive" way. But that's totally a personal opinion and I'm not an adcom - it would probably depend on what exactly you did, how long ago it was, and what else you've done. I think it would be a shame for a law school to reject someone who has the kind of background that could be really helpful for future activism (and hey, law schools have accepted convicted felons, right?). But I understand the concern about using it.

Also, it would depend on whether it's part of your overall narrative. If you really do want to go to law school to continue that work by legal means, it could be very effective. If that stuff is all really in the past and you want to go to law school for something else entirely, like tax, then no, don't bring it up.

(Have you asked Spivey et al? I feel like this is the kind of question that they could actually provide a helpful answer for.)
I haven't asked him but I think I might. This is super helpful, though, as enviro law is still what I plan to pursue and I'm still an active volunteer and activist. Thanks!

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KarenButtenbaum

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Re: When would a DS hurt you?

Post by KarenButtenbaum » Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:04 pm

Hey all -
When to write a diversity statement is a very common question - and one that often gets conflicting answers. To me, a diversity statement is a truly optional statement. I read a blog recently that said you would be missing out if you didn't write one, and I completely disagree with that advice. I think some people would be missing out but it would not add value and might hurt in other cases.
While I recognize that everyone has something unique to bring to the classroom, the diversity statement just isn't the vehicle for everyone to share that. This is an opportunity to share something that is, in general, a non-majority characteristic. But in my opinion, that does not include being left handed.

I wrote this blog about a year ago and think it might be helpful for some in this thread: http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/when-s ... statement/

Cheers,
KB

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seashell.economy

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Re: When would a DS hurt you?

Post by seashell.economy » Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:49 pm

MistakenGenius wrote:
seashell.economy wrote:
MistakenGenius wrote:Come on Seashell, I like you on other threads, stop being wrong in this one. People here often have great advice, but they also constantly parrot the bad advice they've received like it's gospel. You also need to be careful who you're getting your information from. There is nothing anywhere that says diversity statements should be one page. I actually don't know anyone who had a one page DS. It's the exact same with law school resumes. I certainly wouldn't go past 2 pages, but more than 1 page would be fine.

And Tawny, this sounds like it could be a very interesting DS. I would probably not use it as a personal statement, since not every but most personal statements should at least touch on why you want to go to law school (both Asha and JS have said this). But yeah, I think it could be a home run, and I'd enjoy reading it.
Haha, def not parroting advice I see on here (at least not on this post...) I kept my DS to one page because every law school application I am looking at (12 in total) says your DS is both optional and brief. I think "brief" means one page or less in this circumstance (an admissions packet that already has a personal statement, possibly an addendum, and a lot of other material in it.) I agree that reaching two pages is too long for a DS. But what do you want to submit instead? A page and a half? Put your font at 11pt and fit it on one page. It presents nicer and definitively falls under the meaning of "brief" for this purpose. You don't want to disregard the instructions...

So, that's my take on the legitimacy of saying a DS should be limited to one page.
I understand why you feel that way. I'm not saying ignore the instructions. If some school says keep it shorter than 1 page, then do so. But I don't know of any that say that. When they say brief, they mean, don't give them 6 pages talking about what a unique little snowflake you are, which applicants do every single year. Less than two pages is definitely fine, though diversity statements don't have much of an impact anywhere but YLS since admissions is such a numbers game. Speaking of which, good luck on your LSAT tomorrow. Regarding font, I use 11 doublespaced as my default size as I feel 12 is just too big and clunky. You definitely don't want to go below that since many adcoms/professors are old and have a hard time reading really small text. You don't want to cut out vital information just to make it fit some arbitrary guideline like "1 page" that is mentioned nowhere but TLS. And as for making it look nicer, many schools use a program that just spits the application out, absolutely decimating formatting and font. It really is ugly, so your aesthetics don't matter as much as your message.
Wait...my Garamond 11.5 font with justified paragraphs is going to be RUINED?!? Worst news of the day. I guess in that case a perfect looking page doesn't matter :cry: I actually spend a lot of time wordsmithing and making everything look *perfect* so this is news to me...And thanks for the Lsat well wishes! I did a -0 LG section tonight so I'm feeling confident and ready to go : D

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Re: When would a DS hurt you?

Post by PoopyPants » Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:50 pm

Nebby wrote:If you're a white dude who didn't grow up in abject poverty, then you're SOL.
What if you're a white dude who didn't grow up in abject poverty but ends up homeless and penniless, scraping by on money earned by playing music in subways and parks, only to turn to the military as a last resort and end up back as a pretty decently well-off white dude with a wife and 2 kids (no picket fence though--buying in the military is for suckers)?

Might be an easy answer, but being in the military puts you in contact with a lot of other military guys, many of whom joined to avoid poverty. Makes it seem pretty common, even though it may not be a common thing in diversity statements. I just feel kind of awkward talking about my military experience.

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Re: When would a DS hurt you?

Post by Nebby » Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:34 pm

PoopyPants wrote:
Nebby wrote:If you're a white dude who didn't grow up in abject poverty, then you're SOL.
What if you're a white dude who didn't grow up in abject poverty but ends up homeless and penniless, scraping by on money earned by playing music in subways and parks, only to turn to the military as a last resort and end up back as a pretty decently well-off white dude with a wife and 2 kids (no picket fence though--buying in the military is for suckers)?

Might be an easy answer, but being in the military puts you in contact with a lot of other military guys, many of whom joined to avoid poverty. Makes it seem pretty common, even though it may not be a common thing in diversity statements. I just feel kind of awkward talking about my military experience.
I think military is the rare exception to the white dude role. Particularly if you're a combat vet. (don't know if being a cook would be particularly diverse)

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Re: When would a DS hurt you?

Post by A. Nony Mouse » Sat Oct 03, 2015 7:11 pm

I think you could write one.

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Re: When would a DS hurt you?

Post by PoopyPants » Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:04 pm

Nebby wrote:I think military is the rare exception to the white dude role. Particularly if you're a combat vet. (don't know if being a cook would be particularly diverse)
Makes sense. I think the military is good personal statement stuff regardless of your job, so long as it helped your personal growth. It helps if you've been in some shit though, at least as far as being memorable goes.

ETA: Being a cook in the Navy doesn't necessarily mean you don't see action. I've seen a few extremely major casualties that could have sunk the ship, and the cooks were dressed out with the rest of us.

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Re: When would a DS hurt you?

Post by Nebby » Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:24 pm

PoopyPants wrote:
Nebby wrote:I think military is the rare exception to the white dude role. Particularly if you're a combat vet. (don't know if being a cook would be particularly diverse)
Makes sense. I think the military is good personal statement stuff regardless of your job, so long as it helped your personal growth. It helps if you've been in some shit though, at least as far as being memorable goes.

ETA: Being a cook in the Navy doesn't necessarily mean you don't see action. I've seen a few extremely major casualties that could have sunk the ship, and the cooks were dressed out with the rest of us.
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PoopyPants

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Re: When would a DS hurt you?

Post by PoopyPants » Sun Oct 04, 2015 1:54 pm

Nebby wrote: Outed as POG
I'm assuming you aren't referring to pogs, like the little circle things people used to collect when I was a kid, but rather a user on here.

This is the only username I've had. I don't really care about anonymity because I don't post that much, and no one at my command even knows what this site is.

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: When would a DS hurt you?

Post by A. Nony Mouse » Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:01 pm

I think he means http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=POG (though I have no idea why).

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PoopyPants

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Re: When would a DS hurt you?

Post by PoopyPants » Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:04 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I think he means http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=POG (though I have no idea why).
Oh. Yeah, probably. I'm in the Navy (weapons, not aviation), so I guess that makes me a POG. If that's what helps him feel good about himself, he can have at it. Being on a ship doesn't preclude you from seeing things.

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Re: When would a DS hurt you?

Post by Nebby » Sun Oct 04, 2015 6:28 pm

PoopyPants wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:I think he means http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=POG (though I have no idea why).
Oh. Yeah, probably. I'm in the Navy (weapons, not aviation), so I guess that makes me a POG. If that's what helps him feel good about himself, he can have at it. Being on a ship doesn't preclude you from seeing things.
I was making a joke. :(
Didn't mean to offend. Apologies.

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PoopyPants

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Re: When would a DS hurt you?

Post by PoopyPants » Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:57 pm

Nebby wrote:
PoopyPants wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:I think he means http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=POG (though I have no idea why).
Oh. Yeah, probably. I'm in the Navy (weapons, not aviation), so I guess that makes me a POG. If that's what helps him feel good about himself, he can have at it. Being on a ship doesn't preclude you from seeing things.
I was making a joke. :(
Didn't mean to offend. Apologies.

No worries. I wasn't offended. Sorry. I should have included a smiley face. If something like that offended me, I wouldn't last very long in the Navy, and I certainly wouldn't have made it through Wog Day. :P

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