International Students Forum

[1Lofalawyer]

First time poster!

I'm currently in Columbia's Reserve group, and even though I am aware of the fact that getting off Columbia's waitlist is a next-to-none-chance, I still need to be prepared in case I have to pack up and go to NYC.

I'm an international student, and I wanted to know about my options for need-based aid, or getting a high amount of loan in the U.S., seeing that I'm probably going to have to pay sticker.

Any input will be appreciated! Thanks everyone!

[Auxilio]

Without a US co-signer you will not get any loans from American banks. You will likely qualify for some loans from your home country (depending on what that is) but will again probably need a local co-signer (since you are leaving the country). Do not expect any significant amount of need based aid. Unless your family can loan/give you essentially the full cost of attending (which I doubt since you are looking for significant need based aid) Columbia should essentially be ruled out of contention for you - sorry.

[WeeBey]

Similar situation (Canadian).

Gov't student loans usually max out at 10k a year if your taking the $$ out of the country. The rest is gonna be a line of credit from a Canadian. Im not willing to risk more than 20k a year from that line of credit so the rest will be through merit scholarships.

[1Lofalawyer]

Yeah I'm in the same boat. The fact that gov loans are going to be at $10,000 max is daunting. Do you know if we'll be able to get a decent LOC to cover sticker at Columbia?

[Auxilio]

Yeah I'm in the same boat. The fact that gov loans are going to be at $10,000 max is daunting. Do you know if we'll be able to get a decent LOC to cover sticker at Columbia?

Scotiabank (and a couple others) offer a 100k LOC (with a co signer if going to the states). That will not likely be enough for Columbia sticker though (which you should not be paying anyways to be honest).

[1Lofalawyer]

Scotiabank (and a couple others) offer a 100k LOC (with a co signer if going to the states). That will not likely be enough for Columbia sticker though (which you should not be paying anyways to be honest).[/quote]

Thanks for the advice! If you don't mind me asking, why do you think that I shouldn't pay the full amount for Columbia? Do you not think it's going to be a worthwhile investment? I'm just curious because I would have thought that getting an offer at a school as good as Columbia, with its placement rates, would be hard to turn down (even at sticker).

[Auxilio]

Scotiabank (and a couple others) offer a 100k LOC (with a co signer if going to the states). That will not likely be enough for Columbia sticker though (which you should not be paying anyways to be honest).

Thanks for the advice! If you don't mind me asking, why do you think that I shouldn't pay the full amount for Columbia? Do you not think it's going to be a worthwhile investment? I'm just curious because I would have thought that getting an offer at a school as good as Columbia, with its placement rates, would be hard to turn down (even at sticker).[/quote]

Well first of all, any thoughts about LRAP etc. and your loans being forgiven due to working in Public Interest should be gone from your mind since they won't qualify for Canadian loans.

Now given that, you will basically have to be going for biglaw, and having to stick with it for at least 4-5 years (most people are fired or quit before that) to pay off your debt. There are lots of posts on TLS about why Biglaw is a less-than-desirable situation with ridiculous hours, stress, etc.).

So if you get into Columbia at sticker you will have to spend 4-5 years at least, paying about half of your take home income on loans (and living like a poor college student during this period, despite insane workload).

Given this situation, look at the Biglaw + Federal clerkship (those people can get Biglaw if they want it the next year easily) at various lower ranked schools than Columbia, and you have to wonder why you are paying a lot more, since you can probably get a sizable scholarship from Cornell or Duke Etc.

The numbers: Duke ~67% , Penn ~74% , Cornell ~70%, Northwestern ~63%, Columbia ~75%.

As you can see, Columbia is not that much better outcomes. Also the above numbers should be taken as you have an X% chance of getting Biglaw/Clerkship, since a good chunk of people will self-select into small markets/public interest jobs (because of LRAP mostly, which you are not eligible for). To make it worse, since all that debt will be co-signed as a Canadian it means any potential inability to pay for your loans will fall on your parents (or whoever else you get to co-sign).

Find a top school that offers you a good chunk of money, or wait out this cycle (a year work experience will help ensure you get the job you want out of law school anyways).

[WeeBey]

Yea take the money. Getting biglaw with $300k in debt is not a good outcome. Columbia numbers mean your getting $$$ northwestern or cornell. Getting biglaw with 100k in debt is a great outcome though.

I know TLS, hates this argument, but, columbia is a class fiilled with 172s, cornell 167s, northwestern 168s. In law school your grades against your peers. I'm not saying your high lsat means you'll do better than your peers, I'm just saying you may do better against them at a lower ranked school than you would at columbia which makes the slight advantage meaningless.

[stalin]

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