,, Forum

[miamiheat]

,,

[Tom Joad]

Why wouldn't you just plan on actually paying off your loans instead of hoping for a government bailout?

[PARTY]

Why wouldn't you just plan on actually paying off your loans instead of hoping for a government bailout?

says the FDR 'tar.

[Aberzombie1892]

Don't take out $210k for law school.

[Tom Joad]

Regardless of the morality of hoping for the government to forgive your loans (that would just derail the thread way too bad) the law could easily change and you could be on the hook for a massive bill, so it is just prudent to pay off what you can when you can.

[goldeneye]

In what world are you assuming debt will just disappear after 20 years?

[sunynp]

I have a general question for everyone I hope someone can give me some answers...

I will be taking out loans for the full cost of tuition for my T-10 Law School (50k) plus another 20k for living expenses (let's just say for ease that I take that full amount).

For 3 years this is 210k plus all fees.

My question is how does this work with monthly payments when I graduate? With the new laws don't you only have to pay 10% of your discretionary income per year and then it is forgiven after 20 years if you haven't paid it off?

By some general math it would seem that if I make (hopefully) 160k first year and follow that path in a NYC or other big market firm, after taxes (38k), rent (lets say a 4k/month aparment for a total of 48k), and food and other essentials (20k).....where at about 54k so 10% is around 5k....

5k a year for the first year but then when you get more years salary goes up and you will obviously pay more, but it seems like you wouldn't have nearly the discretionary income until you would hopefully hit partner and get the big $$$ (millions? if your lucky)

Now it seems like after 20 years if you don't make partner or do and have other expenses like families.....you would never be able to pay off the 210k originially not including all of the 100k+ of interest that would accrue based on a 10% minimum payment? So then I could just discharge them?

Can someone provide me with more info on this or some answers? It would be highly appreciated.

I think most people hope to get biglaw and live very frugally for a few years to pay off their loans. Most people are not expecting to pay $4,000 in rent as a first year biglaw associate, they may live in Brooklyn and save money.

If you don't get biglaw or another high salary, then you may have to go to on IBR. I haven't seen anyone planning to IBR on a biglaw salary, so I am not sure how that would work. I doubt that you calculated it correctly. I have heard that IBR is difficult, but I don't know.

At the end of 20 years you can get discharged and owe the taxes on the amount that was forgiven.

edit: I realize I may have been trolled.

[man_utd_4l]

rent (lets say a 4k/month aparment for a total of 48k)

Avoiding this might be a good start...

[Kikero]

This (--LinkRemoved--) says that if you make greater than 150% of the poverty level, you can be required to pay up to 15% (changed to 10% by Obama's proposal) of what you make above the poverty level, this would be a lot more than 5k/year.

[miamiheat]

Why wouldn't you just plan on actually paying off your loans instead of hoping for a government bailout?

why not plan on paying back the least amount possible if you can? also is there any way to form a company in your name take out loans to the tune of that 210k amount and discharge them like a private equity firm does (the way romney made his money- which i think as shady as it is I'd do it too)?

[goldeneye]

and food and other essentials (20k).....

I also would look at not getting bottle service every night...

[shmoo597]

By some general math it would seem that if I make (hopefully) 160k first year and follow that path in a NYC or other big market firm, after taxes (38k), rent (lets say a 4k/month aparment for a total of 48k), and food and other essentials (20k).....where at about 54k so 10% is around 5k....

Theres a ton wrong with your post, but lets start here. Firstly, taxes will be more like 65k in NYC. Your take home pay will be around 95-100k. Secondly, anyone paying 4k a month for rent with 210k in loans is full retard. Thirdly, because staffords are no longer subsidized, you will be accruing interest all through law school. Your 210k will be more like 240k when you start working. Fourthly, no idea where you're getting your numbers from, but under no plan will you only be required to pay 5k a year towards loans on a 160k salary.

Bottom line: it is borderline insanity to go to law school today at a full sticker price, even HYS, let alone the t14, let ALONE anything beyond that.

[09042014]

I have a general question for everyone I hope someone can give me some answers...

I will be taking out loans for the full cost of tuition for my T-10 Law School (50k) plus another 20k for living expenses (let's just say for ease that I take that full amount).

For 3 years this is 210k plus all fees.

My question is how does this work with monthly payments when I graduate? With the new laws don't you only have to pay 10% of your discretionary income per year and then it is forgiven after 20 years if you haven't paid it off?

By some general math it would seem that if I make (hopefully) 160k first year and follow that path in a NYC or other big market firm, after taxes (38k), rent (lets say a 4k/month aparment for a total of 48k), and food and other essentials (20k).....where at about 54k so 10% is around 5k....

5k a year for the first year but then when you get more years salary goes up and you will obviously pay more, but it seems like you wouldn't have nearly the discretionary income until you would hopefully hit partner and get the big $$$ (millions? if your lucky)

Now it seems like after 20 years if you don't make partner or do and have other expenses like families.....you would never be able to pay off the 210k originially not including all of the 100k+ of interest that would accrue based on a 10% minimum payment? So then I could just discharge them?

Can someone provide me with more info on this or some answers? It would be highly appreciated.

Discretionary income doesn't mean after rent/food/tax/ essentials. It means your Income less 150% of poverty income rate. So instead of the 54K you are talking about it's 143K. Or 14.3/ year.

[rayiner]

Regardless of the morality of hoping for the government to forgive your loans (that would just derail the thread way too bad) the law could easily change and you could be on the hook for a massive bill, so it is just prudent to pay off what you can when you can.

There is no moral issue. It's an economic issue. By offering IBR, the government is choosing to pay for higher education by subsidizing loans instead of by paying for universities directly like other countries do. There is nothing immoral about taking advantage of that, no more so than it is immoral to get subsidized higher education in another country.

[sunynp]

Paul Campos posted this link to Georgetown's calculator of loan payments today. Perhaps you might find it useful.

--LinkRemoved--

[Tom Joad]

Regardless of the morality of hoping for the government to forgive your loans (that would just derail the thread way too bad) the law could easily change and you could be on the hook for a massive bill, so it is just prudent to pay off what you can when you can.

There is no moral issue. It's an economic issue. By offering IBR, the government is choosing to pay for higher education by subsidizing loans instead of by paying for universities directly like other countries do. There is nothing immoral about taking advantage of that, no more so than it is immoral to get subsidized higher education in another country.

I am not trying to say IBR is wrong at all. I just doubt it was intended for people working in BIGLAW, who can take care of their loans on their own.

[miamiheat]

alright thanks for letting me know that...my suppositions are deteriorating...but thanks to everyone for their input so I can understand this stuff better

I have a general question for everyone I hope someone can give me some answers...

I will be taking out loans for the full cost of tuition for my T-10 Law School (50k) plus another 20k for living expenses (let's just say for ease that I take that full amount).

For 3 years this is 210k plus all fees.

My question is how does this work with monthly payments when I graduate? With the new laws don't you only have to pay 10% of your discretionary income per year and then it is forgiven after 20 years if you haven't paid it off?

By some general math it would seem that if I make (hopefully) 160k first year and follow that path in a NYC or other big market firm, after taxes (38k), rent (lets say a 4k/month aparment for a total of 48k), and food and other essentials (20k).....where at about 54k so 10% is around 5k....

5k a year for the first year but then when you get more years salary goes up and you will obviously pay more, but it seems like you wouldn't have nearly the discretionary income until you would hopefully hit partner and get the big $$$ (millions? if your lucky)

Now it seems like after 20 years if you don't make partner or do and have other expenses like families.....you would never be able to pay off the 210k originially not including all of the 100k+ of interest that would accrue based on a 10% minimum payment? So then I could just discharge them?

Can someone provide me with more info on this or some answers? It would be highly appreciated.

Discretionary income doesn't mean after rent/food/tax/ essentials. It means your Income less 150% of poverty income rate. So instead of the 54K you are talking about it's 143K. Or 14.3/ year.

[rayiner]

By some general math it would seem that if I make (hopefully) 160k first year and follow that path in a NYC or other big market firm, after taxes (38k), rent (lets say a 4k/month aparment for a total of 48k), and food and other essentials (20k).....where at about 54k so 10% is around 5k....

Theres a ton wrong with your post, but lets start here. Firstly, taxes will be more like 65k in NYC. Your take home pay will be around 95-100k. Secondly, anyone paying 4k a month for rent with 210k in loans is full retard. Thirdly, because staffords are no longer subsidized, you will be accruing interest all through law school. Your 210k will be more like 240k when you start working. Fourthly, no idea where you're getting your numbers from, but under no plan will you only be required to pay 5k a year towards loans on a 160k salary.

Bottom line: it is borderline insanity to go to law school today at a full sticker price, even HYS, let alone the t14, let ALONE anything beyond that.

It really isn't if you can do math. Weighted for risk, law school (a T14) pays for itself in just a few years of big law, and everything after that you're coming out ahead.

[rayiner]

Regardless of the morality of hoping for the government to forgive your loans (that would just derail the thread way too bad) the law could easily change and you could be on the hook for a massive bill, so it is just prudent to pay off what you can when you can.

There is no moral issue. It's an economic issue. By offering IBR, the government is choosing to pay for higher education by subsidizing loans instead of by paying for universities directly like other countries do. There is nothing immoral about taking advantage of that, no more so than it is immoral to get subsidized higher education in another country.

I am not trying to say IBR is wrong at all. I just doubt it was intended for people working in BIGLAW, who can take care of their loans on their own.

If it wasn't intended for them, they wouldn't be eligible for it.

[kaiser]

rent (lets say a 4k/month aparment for a total of 48k)

Avoiding this might be a good start...

Lol yea, I was gonna say the same thing. Why the hell would you pick someplace with $4,000 rent if you are looking to live a bit frugally and pay off loans? You can find something for a third of that if you look closely

[09042014]

Regardless of the morality of hoping for the government to forgive your loans (that would just derail the thread way too bad) the law could easily change and you could be on the hook for a massive bill, so it is just prudent to pay off what you can when you can.

There is no moral issue. It's an economic issue. By offering IBR, the government is choosing to pay for higher education by subsidizing loans instead of by paying for universities directly like other countries do. There is nothing immoral about taking advantage of that, no more so than it is immoral to get subsidized higher education in another country.

I am not trying to say IBR is wrong at all. I just doubt it was intended for people working in BIGLAW, who can take care of their loans on their own.

If you are paying IBR on big law salary you'll basically pay it all back before 20 years.

[PARTY]

rent (lets say a 4k/month aparment for a total of 48k)

Avoiding this might be a good start...

Lol yea, I was gonna say the same thing. Why the hell would you pick someplace with $4,000 rent if you are looking to live a bit frugally and pay off loans? You can find something for a third of that if you look closely

be real here, miamiheat is not tryna live like a plebeian.

[goldeneye]

rent (lets say a 4k/month aparment for a total of 48k)

Avoiding this might be a good start...

Lol yea, I was gonna say the same thing. Why the hell would you pick someplace with $4,000 rent if you are looking to live a bit frugally and pay off loans? You can find something for a third of that if you look closely

be real here, miamiheat is not tryna live like a plebeian.

He'll probably try to find 2 other superstar attorneys and live with them.

[miamiheat]

Actually I just looked this up on wiki hope thats accurate... so i think I was correct originally...and yes I plan on living comfortably as opposed to frugally...why not?

"Discretionary income is money remaining after all bills are paid off. It is income after subtracting taxes and normal expenses (such as rent or mortgage, utilities, insurance, medical, transportation, property maintenance, child support, inflation, food and sundries, etc.) to maintain a certain standard of living.[5] It is the amount of an individual's income available for spending after the essentials (such as food, clothing, and shelter) have been taken care of:
Discretionary income = Gross income - taxes - necessities"

[shoeshine]

Actually I just looked this up on wiki hope thats accurate... so i think I was correct originally...and yes I plan on living comfortably as opposed to frugally...why not?

"Discretionary income is money remaining after all bills are paid off. It is income after subtracting taxes and normal expenses (such as rent or mortgage, utilities, insurance, medical, transportation, property maintenance, child support, inflation, food and sundries, etc.) to maintain a certain standard of living.[5] It is the amount of an individual's income available for spending after the essentials (such as food, clothing, and shelter) have been taken care of:
Discretionary income = Gross income - taxes - necessities"

Bro you will not be eligible for IBR while in biglaw. No matter what.

Use this if you don't believe me. http://studentaid.ed.gov/PORTALSWebApp/ ... BRCalc.jsp