PSLF revisions: New budget proposal screws anyone in PI. Forum

[patogordo]

How about we get rid of social security? I'm sick of a generation of older people telling us how easy we have it despite kicking us while we are down in every way imaginable.

death panels

[jaydizzle]

How about we get rid of social security? I'm sick of a generation of older people telling us how easy we have it despite kicking us while we are down in every way imaginable.

death panels

Sounds like a brilliant idea to me since the younger folk are supposed to pay for the older folk to be sick. Might as well use the same rationale they want to gut all of our programs.

[timbs4339]

How about we get rid of social security? I'm sick of a generation of older people telling us how easy we have it despite kicking us while we are down in every way imaginable.

death panels

Sounds like a brilliant idea to me since the younger folk are supposed to pay for the older folk to be sick. Might as well use the same rationale they want to gut all of our programs.

We need to limit the unjustifiable windfall that some of those seniors might be getting. Can you imagine that they are inflating their lifespans with all of these government dollars poached from hardworking Americans?

[timbs4339]

The situation just got more grim: http://waysandmeans.house.gov/uploadedf ... 022614.pdf

Section 1207 seems to point to any loan forgiveness we do get being treatable as taxable income. Yay! Let's keep kicking us down.

How about we get rid of social security? I'm sick of a generation of older people telling us how easy we have it despite kicking us while we are down in every way imaginable.

Section 1204 repeals the income tax deduction for student loan interest. It was a drop in the bucket anyway, but good to know we've got one half of the government chomping at the bit to screw us and the other half only lukewarm about it. Good to know the fucking boomers can keep their home mortgage deductions.

[Dingo Starr]

The situation just got more grim: http://waysandmeans.house.gov/uploadedf ... 022614.pdf
Section 1207 seems to point to any loan forgiveness we do get being treatable as taxable income. Yay! Let's keep kicking us down.

This is also proposed legislation that will never pass. Tax reform, really? All you have to do is read Section 1 and it becomes obvious that this is a non-starter.

[twenty]

Camp's tax reform proposal seems far less likely to pass than Obama's budget proposal changes.

Edit> Though at this point, I wouldn't be at all surprised if a future political environment (i.e, one where the GOP controlled the presidency and the house) gave rise to a "we shouldn't give people tax breaks for working for the government" thing again.

[FinanceStudent28]

I'm glad to hear schools are starting to lobby against it. I'll be calling mine to get them on it.

They better start lobbying like hell.

Enrollment is already down, this is gonna make it tank even lower.

[hausmaus]

I got a revision from the budget office:

I apologize that I need to revise what I sent you on Monday. So sorry.

If this becomes law, then the cap would only apply to folks entering repayment in the year it becomes law or whatever year is stipulated in the law, and those after that. It would apply to any borrower who wants to receive forgiveness under the program, whether an undergraduate or graduate student presently.

[twenty]

I got a revision from the budget office:

I apologize that I need to revise what I sent you on Monday. So sorry.

If this becomes law, then the cap would only apply to folks entering repayment in the year it becomes law or whatever year is stipulated in the law, and those after that. It would apply to any borrower who wants to receive forgiveness under the program, whether an undergraduate or graduate student presently.

Government people are notorious for ambiguous writing.

So I guess this means a law student who's not in repayment yet but has hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt is going to be screwed, but those that have been on "PSLF tracks" for the past who-knows-how-long are probably fine.

[jaydizzle]

So, this means we would need to find jobs and start repayment before the law is enacted? I really hope I can find a job soon and that there is no way in hell the government messes around with PAYE and loan forgiveness until then.

[Dingo Starr]

So I guess this means a law student who's not in repayment yet but has hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt is going to be screwed, but those that have been on "PSLF tracks" for the past who-knows-how-long are probably fine.

Fuck it, I'm in for the long haul anyway.

I can't wait to sign up for the class action.

[LSL]

Yeah, what hausmaus said would still leave pretty much everyone on this site HARHAR fucked. Still waiting for someone more official before I accept it. How in the world could they screw us this badly? Jesus.

[Tanicius]

Yeah, what hausmaus said would still leave pretty much everyone on this site HARHAR fucked. Still waiting for someone more official before I accept it. How in the world could they screw us this badly? Jesus.

Why would it leave everyone fucked? It will take at least two years for a budget like this to pass. That's more than enough time for everyone in this thread to graduate and work the first month at a job.

[dresden doll]

I got a revision from the budget office:

I apologize that I need to revise what I sent you on Monday. So sorry.

If this becomes law, then the cap would only apply to folks entering repayment in the year it becomes law or whatever year is stipulated in the law, and those after that. It would apply to any borrower who wants to receive forgiveness under the program, whether an undergraduate or graduate student presently.

So, about what I thought. Not that I don't think that retroactivity couldn't be revisited in say, 5 years from now, but it's always been my feeling that the first round of revisions wouldn't go there. As I hypothesized a few pages back, whoever is due to be forgiven in 2017/2018 is almost certainly safe.

If only I'd graduated in 2007.

[yeslekkkk]

You know who is really screwing everyone over? F***ing law schools for charging $50k in tuition. Why aren't we blaming them?

Kudos to the government for realizing that they were enabling universities and law schools in charging more money for tuition.

We are the ones who are really f***ed over, and I do not deny that.

[LSL]

Yeah, what hausmaus said would still leave pretty much everyone on this site HARHAR fucked. Still waiting for someone more official before I accept it. How in the world could they screw us this badly? Jesus.

Why would it leave everyone fucked? It will take at least two years for a budget like this to pass. That's more than enough time for everyone in this thread to graduate and work the first month at a job.

Alright, this might have to do with me not understanding where and when the 2015 budget proposal would take place. Am I dumb? Could you help me plz?

[koalacity]

Yeah, what hausmaus said would still leave pretty much everyone on this site HARHAR fucked. Still waiting for someone more official before I accept it. How in the world could they screw us this badly? Jesus.

Why would it leave everyone fucked? It will take at least two years for a budget like this to pass. That's more than enough time for everyone in this thread to graduate and work the first month at a job.

...there are 0Ls in this thread, too .

[dresden doll]

^^^Yeah, I can't imagine how awful it would be to be a PI-minded person going to law school right now. Those of us who have already relied on the program can't take it back, but at least we can benefit from the unpopularity of retroactive reform. Those going in are doing so at their peril; I think it's highly unlikely that revisions would be slated in such a way as to ensure that the cap only applies to those who start law school after the law has already been passed.

[Nomo]

I still haven't heard a response from the Dep. of Education, the whitehouse, my senators, or congressperson. Have others?

I'm hoping the slow response means they are getting hammered with similar emails, and they are trying to get to the bottom of the actual issue before responding. Is that overly optimistic?

[dresden doll]

I still haven't heard a response from the Dep. of Education, the whitehouse, my senators, or congressperson. Have others?

I'm hoping the slow response means they are getting hammered with similar emails, and they are trying to get to the bottom of the actual issue before responding. Is that overly optimistic?

Who knows? I don't think it's uncommon to wait awhile for a response from the elected rep.

[timbs4339]

You know who is really screwing everyone over? F***ing law schools for charging $50k in tuition. Why aren't we blaming them?

Kudos to the government for realizing that they were enabling universities and law schools in charging more money for tuition.

We are the ones who are really f***ed over, and I do not deny that.

Everyone's blaming them and tuition is outrageous. The policy group that proposed this keeps mentioning the GULC dean who gave a presentation about how to game the forgiveness programs. Lawprofs constantly talk about how PAYE is just a huge bailout that can allow them to keep living high on the hog without lowering tuition.

The problem is that this proposal doesn't do shit about that, all it does is allow the government to recoup some costs by going after some borrowers who are not politically protected. It's unlikely the government is going to touch the SL system in any way that brings about meaningful reform and a lowering of tuition.

[dresden doll]

The policy group that proposed this keeps mentioning the GULC dean who gave a presentation about how to game the forgiveness programs.

How do you "game" the forgiveness program? Most PI people aren't great candidates for high salaried private sector positions after 10 years in public service. Even in the only halfway plausible scenario I can think of - that of a prosecutor going biglaw (since some biglaw does like former prosecutors with white collar crime backgrounds), there is no argument that the prosecutor wouldn't have fared better financially by doing biglaw to begin with.

I can't think of anyone who comes out ahead after 10 years in PI more so than it would have been the case had she/he gone biglaw in the first place. Are there mounds of people out there taking out millions in student loans?

I can definitely see how med school graduates are able to "game" the forgiveness program, but I assume this person was talking about forgiveness in the context of the legal profession only.

[Tiago Splitter]

How do you "game" the forgiveness program?

You borrow as much as possible rather than using savings to fund any portion of your education.

[dresden doll]

How do you "game" the forgiveness program?

You borrow as much as possible rather than using savings to fund any portion of your education.

How many 22-24 year olds have savings?

[Tiago Splitter]

How do you "game" the forgiveness program?

You borrow as much as possible rather than using savings to fund any portion of your education.

How many 22-24 year olds have savings?

Not everyone is 22-24. And even among those who are many could otherwise get some help from family. It doesn't make sense to use 529 money or any other family source to pay for law school if the government will forgive everything should you make your PI dreams come true.