New GI Bill Forum

[Rotor]

I was cruising around gibill.va.gov today and saw that there were some improvements passed to the Post 9/11 Bill (Ch. 33). Some of them were technical fixes to include guard etc. (long overdue)

They also simplified the payment scheme and that's where my question comes in. It now says that the Bill pays all tuition/fees for programs at public institutions of higher learning. There was no mention about "up to the highest UG amount". (But it also says nothing about grad programs. Does this mean what I think it means? Will VA pay all tuition and fees to UC Berkeley for law school? Seems way too good to be true. Anybody know if I'm reading it correctly?

I submitted a question to the VA website but it came back with a notice they are way behind answering questions due to all the snow days back east.

Appreciate any insight that anyone here has.

[oldhippie]

i think that it means exactly what you think it means....at a public institution, your tuition is covered, period. grad, undergrad, whatever.
please correct me if i'm wrong, other knowledgable people...

[ScottRiqui]

i think that it means exactly what you think it means....at a public institution, your tuition is covered, period. grad, undergrad, whatever.
please correct me if i'm wrong, other knowledgable people...

That's correct - The new "improvements" to the Post-9/11 GI Bill mean that it will pay 100% of tuition and fees at any public university, undergrad or graduate.

The new version might not be as good for private schools, though, depending on what state your school is in. The new version will only pay for $17,500/year for private schools regardless of the state. Under the original version, they would pay up to about $30k/year in New York or $45k/year in Texas, so the new "improvements" will cost you a lot of money in those states.

Basically, if the "tuition cap" for your state under the old version of the Post-9/11 GI bill was around $583 per credit hour or higher, the new version of the Bill is not as good of a deal.

[Rotor]

i think that it means exactly what you think it means....at a public institution, your tuition is covered, period. grad, undergrad, whatever.
please correct me if i'm wrong, other knowledgable people...

Wooohooo!!

If the VA tells me anything different, I'll be sure to let everyone know.

As for the folks who are losing out under the improvements, I feel bad for them but this info has made my day!

[ScottRiqui]

i think that it means exactly what you think it means....at a public institution, your tuition is covered, period. grad, undergrad, whatever.
please correct me if i'm wrong, other knowledgable people...

Wooohooo!!

If the VA tells me anything different, I'll be sure to let everyone know.

As for the folks who are losing out under the improvements, I feel bad for them but this info has made my day!

Yeah, it's going to make a huge difference for you since California had a fairly low tuition cap under the old system ($392/hr). Congrats!

[MURPH]

OMG This is the best news I've heard in a long time. I am so giddy I can't even calculate how good this is going to be for me at UCLA. YIPPIE.

[03121202698008]

No more break pay though according to the FAQ. Do they think my landlord stops collecting rent from Dec 15-Jan 10th?

[Rotor]

OMG This is the best news I've heard in a long time. I am so giddy I can't even calculate how good this is going to be for me at UCLA. YIPPIE.

I know! At least UCLA at least had an awesome "full-ride" YRP from the start. (Helped us push Berk to hop on board this year).

[lonesoui]

OMG This is the best news I've heard in a long time. I am so giddy I can't even calculate how good this is going to be for me at UCLA. YIPPIE.

I know! At least UCLA at least had an awesome "full-ride" YRP from the start. (Helped us push Berk to hop on board this year).

Rotor, I've been following this thread for awhile. Although it doesn't specifically state that all of instate public universities are covered, even though I believe they meant undergraduate only, I do think it is not the case. If you cross reference the YRP, and you will see the professional/graduate schools listed under there for public universities and their max contribution amounts. It leads me to conclude that it only applies to undergraduate degrees. Unless, that yellow ribbon covers any ADDITIONAL costs associated with attending post undergraduate schools. Why would UCLA cover up to 50% of $200,000.00( $99,999.00) of tuition that is exceeded by the highest tuition per hour and fees allotted to the state of California if instate public tuition is already covered?

I'm hoping I'm wrong on this. But if I am, I hope they will apply the national private school tuition rate of $17,500 to professional/graduate school regardless if it is private or public, and coincide it with the yellow ribbon program's max contribution for that school. Anyone want to chime in?

[CyLaw]

OMG This is the best news I've heard in a long time. I am so giddy I can't even calculate how good this is going to be for me at UCLA. YIPPIE.

I know! At least UCLA at least had an awesome "full-ride" YRP from the start. (Helped us push Berk to hop on board this year).

Rotor, I've been following this thread for awhile. Although it doesn't specifically state that all of instate public universities are covered, even though I believe they meant undergraduate only, I do think it is not the case. If you cross reference the YRP, and you will see the professional/graduate schools listed under there for public universities and their max contribution amounts. It leads me to conclude that it only applies to undergraduate degrees. Unless, that yellow ribbon covers any ADDITIONAL costs associated with attending post undergraduate schools. Why would UCLA cover up to 50% of $200,000.00( $99,999.00) of tuition that is exceeded by the highest tuition per hour and fees allotted to the state of California if instate public tuition is already covered?

I'm hoping I'm wrong on this. But if I am, I hope they will apply the national private school tuition rate of $17,500 to professional/graduate school regardless if it is private or public, and coincide it with the yellow ribbon program's max contribution for that school. Anyone want to chime in?

The Yellow Ribbon data you are looking at is for the 2010–2011 school year. The new policy goes into effect for the 2011–2012 school year.

[lonesoui]

OMG This is the best news I've heard in a long time. I am so giddy I can't even calculate how good this is going to be for me at UCLA. YIPPIE.

I know! At least UCLA at least had an awesome "full-ride" YRP from the start. (Helped us push Berk to hop on board this year).

Rotor, I've been following this thread for awhile. Although it doesn't specifically state that all of instate public universities are covered, even though I believe they meant undergraduate only, I do think it is not the case. If you cross reference the YRP, and you will see the professional/graduate schools listed under there for public universities and their max contribution amounts. It leads me to conclude that it only applies to undergraduate degrees. Unless, that yellow ribbon covers any ADDITIONAL costs associated with attending post undergraduate schools. Why would UCLA cover up to 50% of $200,000.00( $99,999.00) of tuition that is exceeded by the highest tuition per hour and fees allotted to the state of California if instate public tuition is already covered?

I'm hoping I'm wrong on this. But if I am, I hope they will apply the national private school tuition rate of $17,500 to professional/graduate school regardless if it is private or public, and coincide it with the yellow ribbon program's max contribution for that school. Anyone want to chime in?

The Yellow Ribbon data you are looking at is for the 2010–2011 school year. The new policy goes into effect for the 2011–2012 school year.

Feb 23rd 2011 is the new list of the yellow ribbon program for school year 2011-2012. If the public universities are still on the list for max contributions for professional/graduate programs, would I be right?

[fatduck]

Feb 23rd 2011 is the new list of the yellow ribbon program for school year 2011-2012. If the public universities are still on the list for max contributions for professional/graduate programs, would I be right?

the language on the VA's website does not seem to delineate between undergrad and other programs:

For Veterans and their transferees - simplifies the tuition and fee rates for those attending a public school and creates a national maximum for those enrolled in a private or foreign school

* Pays all public school in-state tuition and fees;
* Private and foreign school costs are capped at $17,500 annually;
* The Yellow Ribbon Program still exists for out-of-state fees and costs above the cap.

[CyLaw]

Rotor, I've been following this thread for awhile. Although it doesn't specifically state that all of instate public universities are covered, even though I believe they meant undergraduate only, I do think it is not the case. If you cross reference the YRP, and you will see the professional/graduate schools listed under there for public universities and their max contribution amounts. It leads me to conclude that it only applies to undergraduate degrees. Unless, that yellow ribbon covers any ADDITIONAL costs associated with attending post undergraduate schools. Why would UCLA cover up to 50% of $200,000.00( $99,999.00) of tuition that is exceeded by the highest tuition per hour and fees allotted to the state of California if instate public tuition is already covered?

I'm hoping I'm wrong on this. But if I am, I hope they will apply the national private school tuition rate of $17,500 to professional/graduate school regardless if it is private or public, and coincide it with the yellow ribbon program's max contribution for that school. Anyone want to chime in?

The Yellow Ribbon data you are looking at is for the 2010–2011 school year. The new policy goes into effect for the 2011–2012 school year.

Feb 23rd 2011 is the new list of the yellow ribbon program for school year 2011-2012. If the public universities are still on the list for max contributions for professional/graduate programs, would I be right?

I doubt it. The only place "undergraduate" appeared in the previous version of Chapter 33 was in 38 U.S.C. § 3313(c)(1)(A). That subsection has been completely replaced and all reference to undergraduate has been removed.

[MCRemix]

By the way, in case our TLS vets hadn't noticed, one change to the law is that the VA becomes a "payer of last resort" and will only cover the remainder of tuition and fees minus your scholarships/grants.

I know some people had previously been able to use post 9/11 money for living expenses if they got enough scholarships, so budgets may have to adjust with the change.

[oldhippie]

By the way, in case our TLS vets hadn't noticed, one change to the law is that the VA becomes a "payer of last resort" and will only cover the remainder of tuition and fees minus your scholarships/grants.

I know some people had previously been able to use post 9/11 money for living expenses if they got enough scholarships, so budgets may have to adjust with the change.

ouch.
so does this mean that if i get a small scholarship that i was planning to use to live on that i won't get it now because the GI Bill will cover tuition?

[CyLaw]

By the way, in case our TLS vets hadn't noticed, one change to the law is that the VA becomes a "payer of last resort" and will only cover the remainder of tuition and fees minus your scholarships/grants.

I know some people had previously been able to use post 9/11 money for living expenses if they got enough scholarships, so budgets may have to adjust with the change.

ouch.
so does this mean that if i get a small scholarship that i was planning to use to live on that i won't get it now because the GI Bill will cover tuition?

For the most part, yes. Under chapter 33, the payment made to the school from the VA is reduced by your scholarships that are designated to go towards tuition and fees. Any scholarship money not reserved for tuition and fees is not counted. Check the terms of your scholarship. You still get BAH though.

[MCRemix]

Any scholarship money not reserved for tuition and fees is not counted. Check the terms of your scholarship. You still get BAH though.

Good points, I don't want anyone to think you don't get the stipends or grants for living and books. However, scholarship money intended for tuition and fees cannot be refunded and used to live on.

[oldhippie]

so there's basically no point in waiting for scholarship offers since i won't be able to use the money for living expenses and my tuition is covered by the GI Bill.....unless the scholarship is for things other than tuition and fees which i'd guess not many are....

[MCRemix]

so there's basically no point in waiting for scholarship offers since i won't be able to use the money for living expenses and my tuition is covered by the GI Bill.....unless the scholarship is for things other than tuition and fees which i'd guess not many are....

Although I suspect they'd laugh in your face, you could try and convince the adcomms to classify your scholarship as for cost of living, thereby allowing it to be refunded to you. Better yet, tell them to shove the scholarship and give you a stipend.

If anyone manages to pull this one off, let me know.

[Rotor]

After going back and forth with the VA for a bit, I finally got a definitive answer: "The guidelines for the revised program have not yet been completed, so we can't answer your question."

It may not tell us anything but at least it's definitive. (unlike the two equivocating and confusing answers I received previously).

The more I think about it (and read things like military.com) the more convinced that it will cover graduate programs.

[03121202698008]

Any scholarship money not reserved for tuition and fees is not counted. Check the terms of your scholarship. You still get BAH though.

Good points, I don't want anyone to think you don't get the stipends or grants for living and books. However, scholarship money intended for tuition and fees cannot be refunded and used to live on.

Not true. The GI Bill and Yellow Ribbon cover me 100%, and I get my scholarship from the school to defray living expenses. They apply all the credits and charges to your account, then refund the rest. The GI Bill gets applied first. In fact, schools can't even consider VA money when determining need for scholarships. (Federal law...forget where I read this last year.)

Everything is done off a student budget, and scholarships are applied to that budget. Not specifically to tuition.

Granted I'm not talking $60K or anything...but $10K a year.

[CyLaw]

Any scholarship money not reserved for tuition and fees is not counted. Check the terms of your scholarship. You still get BAH though.

Good points, I don't want anyone to think you don't get the stipends or grants for living and books. However, scholarship money intended for tuition and fees cannot be refunded and used to live on.

Not true. The GI Bill and Yellow Ribbon cover me 100%, and I get my scholarship from the school to defray living expenses. They apply all the credits and charges to your account, then refund the rest. The GI Bill gets applied first. In fact, schools can't even consider VA money when determining need for scholarships. (Federal law...forget where I read this last year.)

Everything is done off a student budget, and scholarships are applied to that budget. Not specifically to tuition.

Granted I'm not talking $60K or anything...but $10K a year.

We are talking about the new rule that goes into effect August 1, 2011

In the case of a program of education pursued at a public institution of higher learning, the actual net cost for in-State tuition and fees assessed by the institution for the program of education after the application of--

"(I) any waiver of, or reduction in, tuition and fees; and

"(II) any scholarship, or other Federal, State, institutional, or employer-based aid or assistance (other than loans and any funds provided under section 401(b) of the Higher Education Act of 1965 (20 U.S.C. 1070a)) that is provided directly to the institution and specifically designated for the sole purpose of defraying tuition and fees.

[03121202698008]

Any scholarship money not reserved for tuition and fees is not counted. Check the terms of your scholarship. You still get BAH though.

Good points, I don't want anyone to think you don't get the stipends or grants for living and books. However, scholarship money intended for tuition and fees cannot be refunded and used to live on.

Not true. The GI Bill and Yellow Ribbon cover me 100%, and I get my scholarship from the school to defray living expenses. They apply all the credits and charges to your account, then refund the rest. The GI Bill gets applied first. In fact, schools can't even consider VA money when determining need for scholarships. (Federal law...forget where I read this last year.)

Everything is done off a student budget, and scholarships are applied to that budget. Not specifically to tuition.

Granted I'm not talking $60K or anything...but $10K a year.

We are talking about the new rule that goes into effect August 1, 2011

In the case of a program of education pursued at a public institution of higher learning, the actual net cost for in-State tuition and fees assessed by the institution for the program of education after the application of--

"(I) any waiver of, or reduction in, tuition and fees; and

"(II) any scholarship, or other Federal, State, institutional, or employer-based aid or assistance (other than loans and any funds provided under section 401(b) of the Higher Education Act of 1965 (20 U.S.C. 1070a)) that is provided directly to the institution and specifically designated for the sole purpose of defraying tuition and fees.

I'm pretty sure that part has always been a rule with the Yellow Ribbon program. It's not listed on the major changes FAQ either.

Also, I'm hoping the "provided directly to" is significant in that it seems to be contemplating external sources of aid...not incentives from the school itself. I think they are contemplating Rotary scholarships, etc.

I e-mailed Michigan's VA Coordinator to find out more.

Edit: I pulled my award letter. It says "to be distributed" in the amount of $5,000 for each of six semesters. Doesn't sound like a reduction either...

[CyLaw]

I'm pretty sure that part has always been a rule with the Yellow Ribbon program. It's not listed on the major changes FAQ either.

Also, I'm hoping the "provided directly to" is significant in that it seems to be contemplating external sources of aid...not incentives from the school itself. I think they are contemplating Rotary scholarships, etc.

I e-mailed Michigan's VA Coordinator to find out more.

Edit: I pulled my award letter. It says "to be distributed" in the amount of $5,000 for each of six semesters. Doesn't sound like a reduction either...

The part I quoted is not from the Yellow Ribbon program, but the subsection regarding regular payment outside the Yellow Ribbon program. The bill completely changed how payment works (the original one paragraph subsection was replaced with a very large subsection detailing new payment methods depending on different circumstances), so old practices are not good indicators of how payment will act under the new program. I am sure however that the schools and VA will try to minimize the impact the changes have on the current system.

Granted, I am only giving what the new statute says (but note that this is brand new language to the statute). Your VA Coordinator is in a better position to say how things will actually be administered.

ETA: The inclusion of "institutional" in the list would imply internal sources also count.

[03121202698008]

I'm pretty sure that part has always been a rule with the Yellow Ribbon program. It's not listed on the major changes FAQ either.

Also, I'm hoping the "provided directly to" is significant in that it seems to be contemplating external sources of aid...not incentives from the school itself. I think they are contemplating Rotary scholarships, etc.

I e-mailed Michigan's VA Coordinator to find out more.

Edit: I pulled my award letter. It says "to be distributed" in the amount of $5,000 for each of six semesters. Doesn't sound like a reduction either...

The part I quoted is not from the Yellow Ribbon program, but the subsection regarding regular payment outside the Yellow Ribbon program. The bill completely changed how payment works (the original one paragraph subsection was replaced with a very large subsection detailing new payment methods depending on different circumstances), so old practices are not good indicators of how payment will act under the new program. I am sure however that the schools and VA will try to minimize the impact the changes have on the current system.

Granted, I am only giving what the new statute says (but note that this is brand new language to the statute). Your VA Coordinator is in a better position to say how things will actually be administered.

ETA: The inclusion of "institutional" in the list would imply internal sources also count.

Yeah I went and looked at the bill. Somewhere it used to say something similar to that under the old Yellow Ribbon program. Basically, what the VA would split with the school. I'm still holding out hope for the "provided directly to" part. The VA used a loophole under the old bill to pay for classes with no cap for active duty people. (They even called it a "loophole" in the letter they sent to me.) So hopefully...