PSLF revisions: New budget proposal screws anyone in PI. Forum

[californiauser]

someone needs to write an op-ed and send it to nyt opposing this bs

[Turtledove]

Even if nothing else, I think this is a super good wakeup call to myself especially, but I'm sure many others on this forum, that PSLF/PAYE are not "for sure" bailouts for PI-oriented students that want to spend ten years saving the world. I'm often the first to recommend a T14 at sticker over a regional for a full ride when it comes to PI because of how awesome these programs have been in the past.

Though this budget proposal may not pass, it's good to realize how tenuous things really are.

This is a very good point. Although this will almost certainly not become law it's a very bad sign. If Democratic policy is that the party will trade PSLF for some other student loan policy concession it becomes very likely tat PSLF will be axed the next time significant student loan reform passes.

[hung jury]

Whether wide-scale reform comes today or tomorrow I can't imagine it isn't coming.

1. Future costs of this program are exploding due to rent seeking schools. Even the top schools who can afford their own LRAP programs have shifted the burden to the state while increasing their tuition.
2. Boomers. This isn't social security with its massive and reliable voting bloc and the usual sympathies that go along with treating the elderly well. This is an area that is ripe for political opportunism. Replace "welfare queen" with "irresponsible millenials" / "400k in loans to attend Touro Law and trot around Europe for bar trip and then have a 1 million+ debt load relieved on the taxpayer dime." Then add in the fact that the only people who are directly benefited by these programs are the poors. Not exactly a demographic I'd want to count on. Particularly if you tailor the reforms so that most students can still get debt forgiven (e.g., 57k cap!).
3. Why has it worked so far? Because deferring costs is easy, education sounds good if you don't have to pay for it, and I don't think Congress envisioned how expensive this program was going to become. It's unsustainable in its present form due to #1.
4. Why don't you just pay for your schooling with your summer job? That's what I did.
5. Bootstraps.

I wouldn't go to law school expecting PAYE to be there in its present form.

[anyriotgirl]

4. Why don't you just pay for your schooling with your summer job? That's what I did.

I see white hot rage whenever I see people making claims like this on the internet. Especially when they start throwing words like "entitled" around.

[FlanAl]

No way this goes through. No one will be able to afford to work for the government or be an AUSA anymore. What you need is a tough on crime argument. The brightest most talented kids will no longer be able to afford to be prosecutors, hell, no one will be able to afford to be a prosecutor.

[Hipster but Athletic]

No way this goes through. No one will be able to afford to work for the government or be an AUSA anymore.

I agree. We need policies that encourage people to work for mother government. grow it big.

[Hipster but Athletic]

This is going to bring a whole new meaning to biglaw or bust.

Yes this is logical bc as the highly imperative AND MORALLY SUPERIOR government work that is being done no longer is fillable, it's imperativeness will vanish with nothing but air taking its place.
MORE MORAL JOBS
MORE GOVERNMENT
TLS UNITE

[patogordo]

wat

[Hipster but Athletic]

someone needs to write an op-ed and send it to nyt opposing this bs

Here's a start, "If you enact this policy, then it will shift the economic forces that currently persuade me to work for the government to not want to work for the government. In a survey of one person, I determined that the government's calculations about its future needs and how best to fulfill them are likely failing to account my precise preference-points along the leisure/labor trade-off spectrum.

[patogordo]

maybe i'm getting leveled here but PSLF doesn't just apply to government jobs

[Hipster but Athletic]

I don't know what PI is then I guess

[Nomo]

To all the 0L's out there. I would be very careful about attending a top school even with 60 or 80k in scholarships. After adding in tuition increases, cost of living, and interest you're going to be 150k in debt - easily. The stress that is caused by having to sweat this stuff out just isn't worth it.

[patogordo]

someone needs to write an op-ed and send it to nyt opposing this bs

Here's a start, "If you enact this policy, then it will shift the economic forces that currently persuade me to work for the government to not want to work for the government. In a survey of one person, I determined that the government's calculations about its future needs and how best to fulfill them are likely failing to account my precise preference-points along the leisure/labor trade-off spectrum.

did you write this by any chance?

http://business.time.com/2011/07/12/why ... is-unfair/

[Hipster but Athletic]

I don't know what PI is then I guess

Ok, so it includes non profits too. That were I guess hugely aided by gov bucks. Whatever. If the work mattered, it'll spring up.

Any gov policy to cut funding to itself is a good thing. Fuck y'all's TLS lobby. I'm a TLS user too. Don't go lobby the wrong side on my behalf.

[patogordo]

weird shtick


anyway, i found an article from six months ago that said there were only 630,000 people on IBR/PAYE (out of 37 million outstanding borrowers). so the number of people pursuing PSLF has gotta be even lower, right? seems inconsequential

[Hipster but Athletic]

Moreover, half of TLS's "fix law school" solutions are "keep people out". And then bills get proposed to make law school less accessible (to those who want to bill the country for their morality projects), and yall flip a shit?

Obviously criminal justice stuff might be slightly more nuanced. But that's just a pre-private game anyways isn't it?

[xRON MEXiCOx]

HBA, you're missing the clear solution to all of this. PI people should just have their parents pay tuition, then they wouldn't need PSLF.

[A. Nony Mouse]

weird shtick


anyway, i found an article from six months ago that said there were only 630,000 people on IBR/PAYE (out of 37 million outstanding borrowers). so the number of people pursuing PSLF has gotta be even lower, right? seems inconsequential

IBR/PAYE have only been in place at all for about 3 years, and I don't think PSLF has been around long enough to have any loans forgiven yet, so in terms of percentage of total borrowers, sure, it may not be stratospheric. But the reasons they were implemented haven't gone away, and schools have definitely hyped these programs as the solution to high tuition for current and incoming students. (I agree that schools shouldn't be able to use these programs to justify high tuition, so I can see the desire for reform on that basis, but we have high tuition already and I have a hard time seeing tuition going down anywhere.)

Of course, I also say this because the potential changes are VERY consequential to me.

[desiballa21]

wow, well this would suck.

[Mount Elbrus]

This opinion will be unpopular but, whatever: Why should your debt be forgiven just because you chose to do PI? If you borrow money, pay it back.

[A. Nony Mouse]

This opinion will be unpopular but, whatever: Why should your debt be forgiven just because you chose to do PI? If you borrow money, pay it back.

so you don't think it's a problem if lawyers stop being willing to enter the public sector because no one can service their debt on the salaries offered?

[nouseforaname123]

This opinion will be unpopular but, whatever: Why should your debt be forgiven just because you chose to do PI? If you borrow money, pay it back.

so you don't think it's a problem if lawyers stop being willing to enter the public sector because no one can service their debt on the salaries offered?

Lawyers will still enter the public sector. Just under different circumstances. Slightly feel bad for the people who will be screwed in the transition away from the current system.

[timbs4339]

I'll say it again: do not go into law school hoping upon hope that PAYE and PSLF will be around to pay off 300K in debt. This is President Obama's proposal. Who knows what the hell the House Republicans are going to cook up.

Again, Washington is totally captured by universities who don't give two shits about their students. The way to bring down tuition is to get rid of the PLUS loan programs and then to order schools taking federal funds to stay under a certain tuition cap. Most will do it since nobody can afford school otherwise.

[A. Nony Mouse]

This opinion will be unpopular but, whatever: Why should your debt be forgiven just because you chose to do PI? If you borrow money, pay it back.

so you don't think it's a problem if lawyers stop being willing to enter the public sector because no one can service their debt on the salaries offered?

Lawyers will still enter the public sector. Just under different circumstances. Slightly feel bad for the people who will be screwed in the transition away from the current system.

are the different circumstances good policy?

[nouseforaname123]

This opinion will be unpopular but, whatever: Why should your debt be forgiven just because you chose to do PI? If you borrow money, pay it back.

so you don't think it's a problem if lawyers stop being willing to enter the public sector because no one can service their debt on the salaries offered?

Lawyers will still enter the public sector. Just under different circumstances. Slightly feel bad for the people who will be screwed in the transition away from the current system.

are the different circumstances good policy?

IMHO, yes. The current policy, in part, leads to a combination of higher tuition and higher taxes for the rest of us. I'm sure you provide some sort of valuable service in PI, but I'm not convinced that subsidizing your access to that sector is worth the costs, especially when others could provide a similar service without the need for a subsidy from the taxpayers.