$150k in loans... am I crazy? Forum

[BeautifulSW]

The obvious answer is not to do it.

If you do well but still DON'T get that great job, the dead horse will still be weighing you down. Forever.

If you really really want to be a lawyer, go to the CHEAPEST, PART-TIME program you can find and WORK for four years while in school. If they'll give you some scholarship money, so much the better.

[General Tso]

The obvious answer is not to do it.

If you do well but still DON'T get that great job, the dead horse will still be weighing you down. Forever.

If you really really want to be a lawyer, go to the CHEAPEST, PART-TIME program you can find and WORK for four years while in school. If they'll give you some scholarship money, so much the better.

are you talking about something specific or just a great job in general

[bearsEATtrees]

*** DISCLAIMER: Not all the issues I mentioned below were presented in this thread, but rather throughout similar threads on TLS***

I don't understand all the doomsday talk. Yes jobs are not as plentiful and not as lucrative as they use to be but that doesn't mean that there aren't any jobs or that they pay poorly! Even getting $60k as a starting salary is significanly higher than most people will ever see on a paycheck. (Though admittedly that wouldn't allow for a quick repayment of my loans)

I feel like people completely discount a cost benefit analysis. Yes most people on here could go to some TTT school for free but would that put you in a better position to be hired, and possibly make money, than being in debt but with a significantly better education that is more highly regarded? School names can easily get you in the door, esp t20s, and the selectivity of those schools is already a mark in your favor because you were able to get in; signifying that you met and or exceeded selective criteria.

I hope most people want to be lawyers because they like law or a certain type of law and want to learn from the best instructors possible. I know I do and that I value that opportunity and understand it's value is monetary. (apply the same argument to buying some crappy nokia phone vs. an iPhone... yea the end result is similiar, you can make calls, but to an individual the pluses with the iPhone are worth the significant cost difference)

I sincerely appreciate everyone on here who has given advice and their opinions. However, it's shortsighted and seriously incorrect to claim a free education at a TTT or TTTT will benefit someone who truly wants to practice law, and practice it well, more than paying for an education (which is a priviledge and not a right) at a highly regarded institution.

And I'm sorry to say but I think the advice some of you have given- to retake or to take a scholarship at a significantly lower ranked school- has actually pushed me in the opposite direction. People would kill to be able to go to a t20 and I get that opportunity and I would probably be crazier to give that up than I am to take on the loans. Plus I'm confident in my financial prowess enough to know I'll be responsible and dedicated to paying them back.

So $150k is what I'll be paying back in 3 years along with a large section of law students graduating at the same time. So maybe we'll form a support group or something. But I'm betting I won't be regretting the decision.

[Grizz]

Wait... since when have we been talking about free TTTs?

[bearsEATtrees]

Wait... since when have we been talking about free TTTs?

Ok large scholarships at TTT. You're missing the bigger picture my friend.

[Grizz]

Wait... since when have we been talking about free TTTs?

Ok large scholarships at TTT. You're missing the bigger picture my friend.

You just set up a false dichotomy. We haven't talked about free/almost free TTT's at all in this thread, and now you're using them to justify why USC is a better life choice. Now I'm confused.

[bearsEATtrees]

Wait... since when have we been talking about free TTTs?

Ok large scholarships at TTT. You're missing the bigger picture my friend.

You just set up a false dichotomy. We haven't talked about free/almost free TTT's at all in this thread, and now you're using them to justify why USC is a better life choice. Now I'm confused.

In my rant I combined information espoused throughout TLS which I have found frustrating, unfounded, and created with the purpose of undermining people's psyche when it comes to law schoold decisions. I admit I was unclear by not disclaiming that in the beginning.

[Grizz]

I feel like people completely discount a cost benefit analysis. Yes most people on here could go to some TTT school for free but would that put you in a better position to be hired, and possibly make money, than being in debt but with a significantly better education that is more highly regarded? School names can easily get you in the door, esp t20s, and the selectivity of those schools is already a mark in your favor because you were able to get in; signifying that you met and or exceeded selective criteria.

You missed the point of free TTTs. The point is, even if you can't get a legal job after, you will be close to debt free. That is how free TTTs make sense in a cost-benefit analysis. For the record, though, I still wouldn't recommend many free TTTs, and this goes for many TLSers as well.

People would kill to be able to go to a t20 and I get that opportunity and I would probably be crazier to give that up than I am to take on the loans.

Those people have no idea how bad the job market is and the consequences of debt. Also, T20 isn't really a tier.

Plus I'm confident in my financial prowess enough to know I'll be responsible and dedicated to paying them back.

Unfortunately, a large portion of this, the state of the legal economy, is out of your control.

So $150k is what I'll be paying back in 3 years along with a large section of law students graduating at the same time. So maybe we'll form a support group or something. But I'm betting I won't be regretting the decision.

Best of luck. It's a gamble, but hopefully you hit it big. Just don't say no one warned you if you don't.

[General Tso]

how much are you earning (or would expect to earn) without JD?

[jml8756]

Get a government job, qualify for IBR, pay no more than 15% of your income, and have your loans forgiven after 10 years. That's my plan.

[YCrevolution]

..

[legalease9]

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[jml8756]

Get a government job, qualify for IBR, pay no more than 15% of your income, and have your loans forgiven after 10 years. That's my plan.

That part can be a little tricky.

Meh, getting any job can be a little tricky nowadays. Government is probably the fastest-growing industry around. All I'm saying is a government or non-profit gig can qualify you for IBR, LRAP, and 10-year forgiveness, the combination of which can make ridiculous amounts of debt become quite manageable. It's something worth considering if, like a lot of grads these days, you can't snag a $160k big law job.

[BeautifulSW]

Two things:

1) I am not saying that you shouldn't become a lawyer at all. However, after 25 years practicing law, I think that I can say with some confidence that no 0L posting here has any way to KNOW whether he or she "just loves the law." You don't know what you're talking about. You might well love the idea of being a lawyer but until you've put in a few long weekends going through boxes of computer printouts you received in discovery as part of an anti-trust case, you don't know what lawyering is mostly about. An exception would be a paralegal with real experience, of course, but how many 0Ls have ever worked as paralegals?

2) Even jobs paying $60K to start for new lawyers just aren't that common. Take a look at the salary stats and you will soon identify the notorious "bi-modal distribution" that developed over the last decade or so. An awful lot of jobs for new J.D.s start as low as $40K, especially in state and local government and public interest work. Most lawyers, even from my era which was a time when jobs were not scarce and state law schools were close to free, did not get rich. Chances are, you won't get rich, either.

What you need more than anything to become a successful lawyer is the flexibility to do what you find interesting. Keep the debt down.

[PoliticalJunkie]

OP: You mentioned you're getting help from your parents already, ask them to put in $$ for interest per month while you are in school. That compounded interest can kill some people depending on the job they get and while 100-200/month may not seem like a lot, it adds up. If you have that option and generous, able parents, ask them to do that - it will save you a few grand in the long run.

[bigmnstyle]

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[bigmnstyle]

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[romothesavior]

Okay, OP... this is really a question that only you can answer for yourself. If you REALLY want to be a lawyer and you don't mind potentially paying it off into your 40s (depending your current age, this could be close to 50), then go for it. Just realize that there is a good chance you'll be making these payments for a long time and you may never "strike it rich" in law.

FWIW, I'm taking out just shy of 100k for LS. Assuming that I start out at 40k (a conservative, but reasonable assumption) and my wife also starts at 40k, and taking into account pay raises, it will take me somewhere between 10-15 years with IBR to pay off my debts (putting me somewhere in my mid 30s to late 30s). I know a number of middle-aged attorneys who either recently paid off their debts or are still paying them off, and they live a modest but comfortable lifestyle. I am content with this prospect, as I come from a pretty modest middle-class family to begin with and I'm not doing law to get rich.

Of course there are so many other factors, both negative and positive, that could affect this estimate (not getting married, wife's debts, getting laid off, IBR going away, varying salaries, landing biglaw, bonuses, paid summer work that lowers my total debt, having kids, never getting a legal job, etc.). But by a conservative and realistic estimate, I am comfortable with the debt I am taking out. And I also feel like I have a better-than-average chance at getting a well-paying job with the company I currently intern with, so that also helps put my mind (somewhat) at ease.

Your mileage may vary. Assess your goals, assess what you feel is a comfortable lifestyle, and decide for yourself whether this thing is worth it. And good luck.

[bigmnstyle]

Okay, OP... this is really a question that only you can answer for yourself. If you REALLY want to be a lawyer and you don't mind potentially paying it off into your 40s (depending your current age, this could be close to 50), then go for it. Just realize that there is a good chance you'll be making these payments for a long time and you may never "strike it rich" in law.

FWIW, I'm taking out just shy of 100k for LS. Assuming that I start out at 40k (a conservative, but reasonable assumption) and my wife also starts at 40k, and taking into account pay raises, it will take me somewhere between 10-15 years with IBR to pay off my debts (putting me somewhere in my mid 30s to late 30s). I know a number of middle-aged attorneys who either recently paid off their debts or are still paying them off, and they live a modest but comfortable lifestyle. I am content with this prospect, as I come from a pretty modest middle-class family to begin with and I'm not doing law to get rich.

Of course there are so many other factors, both negative and positive, that could affect this estimate (not getting married, wife's debts, getting laid off, IBR going away, varying salaries, landing biglaw, bonuses, paid summer work that lowers my total debt, having kids, never getting a legal job, etc.). But by a conservative and realistic estimate, I am comfortable with the debt I am taking out. And I also feel like I have a better-than-average chance at getting a well-paying job with the company I currently intern with, so that also helps put my mind (somewhat) at ease.

Your mileage may vary. Assess your goals, assess what you feel is a comfortable lifestyle, and decide for yourself whether this thing is worth it. And good luck.

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