URM male super splitter, is ED a good option?

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
Post Reply
dirtynef

New
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:19 pm

URM male super splitter, is ED a good option?

Post by dirtynef » Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:16 pm

Hi all,

I'm sure that this has been talked to death, but given the changing numbers for URM applicants and the wonkiness that I'm sure will ensue from this cycle, I wanted some input. I'm a Black male, 3.1 GPA and high 160s lsat (taking again, trying to get 170+ in Oct). I really want to go into biglaw, perhaps do a joint MBA as well. Considering ED'ing Penn, CLS, and Chicago. A few years WE and some relatively strong softs from UG. Any input on where I should apply? Likelihood of getting into places?

Thanks in advance!

AJordan

Silver
Posts: 507
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:48 am

Re: URM male super splitter, is ED a good option?

Post by AJordan » Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:34 pm

If you get a 170 I think it's quite a bad idea. I think I read somewhere that there are fewer than 300 URMs per cycle who hit 170. You are going to be extremely popular ($$$) at any T14 school where you hit the :SAT median. EDing gives away that leverage.

edit: I went and found a thread at the forum which TLS does not dare let me speak its name and the analyzed number was that the URM median ACCEPTANCE at Harvard and Stanford were both 169 and Yale was 171. So if you crack 170, yes, I believe you are making a big mistake. Even with that 3.1. One of the lower T14s might even want you for free.

dirtynef

New
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:19 pm

Re: URM male super splitter, is ED a good option?

Post by dirtynef » Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:22 pm

Thanks for the advice. I really know that I'd prefer to be at Penn, Chicago, or CLS above all else. Well, maybe H/S if I could swing it, but I'm not holding my breath for that. Money aside, would you still recommend not ED'ing to one of those schools, should I break 170?

On your point about fewer than 300 URMs breaking 170, the number is less than 45 AAs breaking it. Factor in the number of males and you're looking at maybe 17. That being said, my GPA is garbage. Unsure how a traditional splitter is perceived vs a reverse splitter when it comes to AAs.

showusyourtorts

New
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:59 pm

Re: URM male super splitter, is ED a good option?

Post by showusyourtorts » Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:05 pm

Unfortunately, I can't speak to the URM and reverse/traditional splitter interaction, but I wanted to offer my two cents in re: ED.

If you are interested in BigLaw (i.e., not especially interested in academia, prestigious clerkships, appellate litigation) and will be financing your own education, then it's probably going to be worth your while to very seriously consider the likelihood that you may be in the position of choosing between either accepting a full ride at a T10-14 or instead paying somewhere much closer to sticker at, say, Chicago, Columbia or Penn. I think the prevailing wisdom on TLS is that if you're taking loans and want general BigLaw, then it more often than not makes sense to take the scholarship from the lesser ranked T14 and just be sure to hustle your 1L year. The thinking, of course, is that most T14 students are able to find BigLaw jobs regardless, and that it's often not worth paying an additional 100-150k to attend a T4-T6 school in exchange for the marginal "BigLaw safety cushion" that they offer.

Here, that "BigLaw safety cushion" may even less valuable than usual because as an AA, you are much less likely to strike out at BigLaw in a lower T14 than your non-URM peers are. BigLaw firms invest lots of time and money to recruit AAs and often will bend over backwards to get viable candidates in the door. Firms don't really publish data on this -- no firm will break down their incoming class by demographics and corresponding 1L GPA -- but anecdotally, FWIW, the URM students in my T14 class had their pick among firms (as did URMs in the grades below and above mine), with some offers being notably disproportionate to the students' grades. For example, it's not unheard of that an URM with, say, average grades could receive an offer from a V10 firm that denied their non-URM peer that had better grades. I think it's safe to say that this edge is somewhat obvious and undisputed, given the very necessary push for diversity recruiting within BigLaw, but I think it's worth noting when considering whether that cushion is worth an additional $150k.

To add another layer of cushion: if you are interested, then you'll also almost certainly also be able to find a summer associate position during your 1L summer, a good number of which positions are explicitly limited to URMs. If you get a summer associate gig at 1L OCI then you will almost certainly have the option to return and ultimately work with that firm. If you "strike out" at 1L OCI, then you'll still have the normal 2L OCI cycle to land a BigLaw offer.

TL;DR: As an URM, it may be even more worthwhile than it normally is to take the money and run. As you consider whether to apply ED, I'd recommend being thoughtful to position yourself to be able to jockey for the money, even if you ultimately do end up deciding that it's not worth taking.

showusyourtorts

New
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:59 pm

Re: URM male super splitter, is ED a good option?

Post by showusyourtorts » Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:57 pm

dirtynef wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:22 pm
Thanks for the advice. I really know that I'd prefer to be at Penn, Chicago, or CLS above all else. Well, maybe H/S if I could swing it, but I'm not holding my breath for that. Money aside, would you still recommend not ED'ing to one of those schools, should I break 170?

On your point about fewer than 300 URMs breaking 170, the number is less than 45 AAs breaking it. Factor in the number of males and you're looking at maybe 17. That being said, my GPA is garbage. Unsure how a traditional splitter is perceived vs a reverse splitter when it comes to AAs.
Also -- to the extent that your attraction to Penn, Chicago and CLS stems from their (very successful) MBA programs, it's probably worth considering that very few people end up choosing to participate in JD/MBA programs at this level. The BigLaw offers to kids with a JD/MBA will be virtually identical to the offers that they give to kids with a pure JD, and the work and opportunities that you end up enjoying during your BigLaw stint (and thus the clients you end up forming relationships with and potentially working for) will not materially differ because you have an MBA. In other words, though both a JD and an MBA may be very powerful career-builders, it's usually the case that adding an MBA onto a BigLaw career does not typically add much value. For those reasons, the vast majority of people that pursue a JD/MBA at top schools are either (1) confident that they do not want to pursue a legal career or (2) bankrolled by wealthy parents or (3) usually both. I went to one of the above schools and only 1 student in my grade was enrolled in the JD/MBA program. Feel free to DM me.

dirtynef

New
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:19 pm

Re: URM male super splitter, is ED a good option?

Post by dirtynef » Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:31 pm

That's really helpful to know. I have some specific career goals, but would be more than happy to end up in biglaw should they not pan out. PM'd you.

Want to continue reading?

Register now to search topics and post comments!

Absolutely FREE!


Post Reply

Return to “Under Represented Law Student Forum”