URM 2016-2017 Cycle Results Forum

[TripleM]

Type of URM: AA

Attending: TBD

GPA: 3.3

LSAT: 164

Undergrad: Unremarkable State

Softs: nothing special... unusual work background

Advice:
I only have one meaningful piece of advice and I wish someone had told me this two decades ago when I was an undergrad. If you read only one thing I write please read the following: You are a valuable person to many schools, carry yourself in that manner.
I think that as a URM you spend a lot of your life being taught that you're less than others. Rather than being taught how great we are we hear a constant drumbeat of test scores and talk that leave us feeling that we may not be worthy of what we're offered in life. That feeling is wrong; you're a badass MF and you need to make carry yourself in that manner (but be polite).

That means you should aim high. If you do decent on the LSAT you're going to be offered fee waivers so take advantage of that. Apply to many schools and apply to really good schools. Apply to places where your numbers don't seem good enough. It's true, they may reject you; but don't do the work for them. Apply and make them say no. You only need one of those top schools to say "yes" and with URMs the decision is about a lot more than simply LSAT and GPA. Also understand that many of those top schools have much more money to give out due to large endowments. Once they've decided that you're valuable they're likely to be willing to spend money to get you. That means that an elite school may actually be cheaper to attend than your regional school which may not have as many resources. I should have been applying to ivies as an undergrad (I had a 1490 SAT that's how long ago I took it) but ended up paying sticker at a state school. I won't say I regret it, but I'll say that it saddens me to this day.

We feel that we should be thanking the school for the mere privilege of being accepted and probably not asking for more money, better scholarship conditions etc... Understand that at every school to which you were accepted, your application was reviewed by a panel of experts who decided that your presence would make their school better. Don't doubt their decision, accept that you are valuable and ask for what you need. Remember, nothing bad can really happen... they can't take away your birthday.

Make your PS the best piece of writing you've ever done. Write it, re-write it, send it to someone to edit. Send it to a bunch of someones to edit. Let it sit for a week then revisit it. Edit, edit, edit. If you didn't cry or get into a serious argument with your editors then it hasn't been edited well enough and you need to find someone who's going to be harder on you.

I'm a fan of basing it on some sort of personal story. I've had staff at numerous schools say, "Oh, you're the guy that ***." They're going to read a million stories about people's mission trip to Guatemala or ramblings about wanting to "help people." They're never going to remember you. I don't personally believe that it needs to have an epiphany ("...and that was the moment I decided to become a lawyer."). I do believe it needs to address why you're passionate about becoming a lawyer in some form but it can be subtle.

Somewhere in your application explain to them how your unique perspective is going to add value to their class. In my case I'm old AF and have a decade and a half working in a very blue collar job. I'm going to bring something different to the conversation when we're talking about social issues than most kids fresh out of college. I talked about that in my DS (my PS addressed race). That's mine, figure out yours.

Take advice here with a grain of salt and know that you're going to get the best advice here in the URM forum. I'm still trying to figure if the TLS obsession with T14/13 is reflective of harsh realities of the legal profession or a bit overblown.

Finally; ask questions. Ask many people. You'll be amazed at how many people are willing to take the time to speak with you. Find the top practitioners in fields that interest you and call or email them. Look at the names and pictures on firm's sites, pick out the URMs and reach out to them as they'll have a better understanding of your situation. You'll be amazed at how cool folks are to someone whose asking for their wisdom.

Approx. Time of Application: Jan/Feb

Other acceptances:
GULC ($127k)
Northwestern ($120k)
UCLA ($105k)
University of Colorado (full ride)
University of Denver (full ride)
Hastings ($90k)

Rejections:
Harvard
Stanford
Berkeley
Chicago
Texas

Waitlists:
Cornell
Columbia
NYU
Duke
Michigan
GW
Penn
UVA
Vandy

[jw316]

edit: whoops, mod delete please

[dietcoke1]

Type of URM: MA

Attending: T10 ($$$)

GPA: 3.5

Highest LSAT: 168

Undergrad: big state school

Softs: average

Advice: As a URM, I think getting your GPA as high as possible is the most important component of your application. If your GPA is already locked in, you can have success with the LSAT but I would anticipate taking the LSAT two or three times. Unless your scoring in the mid-high 170s, there is always room for improvement. Even if you think there is a slight possibility you could score one point higher, I would recommend retaking.

Do not be afraid to retake and reapply if you're not happy with your results. The classic TLS response of "retake" does apply to URMs and you can have drastic changes by reapplying. Last year, I received only one acceptance from a T20 at sticker price.

I'll echo others about crafting a narrative with your application. You want to be able to tell a story and have each piece of the application match that story.

Apply every where if you can afford it. (Get fee waivers). URM admissions tend to be unpredictable and scholarships can be even more unpredictable. In order to have real leverage to negotiate, you want to be able to show schools multiple offers.

NEGOTIATE. Negotiating absolutely works. Be persistent but always respectful and polite and you will have success. Do not come across as entitled and really work to show schools you are interested in them. Follow up on a program you want to hear more about, reach out to current students, visit schools, etc. If you have leverage, have demonstrated sincere interest, and you are persistent and polite, schools will provide more money.

Finally, recognize that this is a long process for most. If you want to be as successful as you can be, it will take a lot more of your time than you expect. If you know going in that this will be an extremely long and slow process, I think you will be better equipped to deal when things don't go exactly as you planned. This process should not be rushed. Take your time.

Approx. Time of Applications: September/October

Other acceptances: Michigan (120k), NU (75k), Cornell (75k), GULC (0k), Texas (79k), UCLA (92k), USC (135k), Vandy (95k), WUSTL (135k)

Rejections: Harvard

Waitlists: Stanford, Columbia, Chicago, NYU, Duke, UVA, Penn

[Ca2021]

When I was in the process of applying this thread really helped me out so I am paying it forward.

Type of URM: AA

Attending: Harvard

GPA: 3.7

LSAT: 16X

Softs: 3-4 years of work and travel experience. I also had a prestigious scholarship and internship/work experience in undergrad.

Undergrad: Private

Advice: I studied for the LSAT for a year. Don't take the test until you are ready and if that means you have to sit out a cycle then do it. My biggest piece of advice is to really think about your life experiences, how they shaped who you are, and why that will make you not only a unique voice in the classroom but also a great lawyer---then write your personal statement based on that.

Approx. Time of Application: Right before Thanksgiving

Other acceptances: U Chicago, Columbia, NYU, U Penn, Northwestern, UVA, U Michigan, Duke, Georgetown

Rejections: None

Waitlists: None

[Hi-So - ArshavinFan]

When I was in the process of applying this thread really helped me out so I am paying it forward.

Attending: Harvard

GPA: 3.7

LSAT: 16X

Softs: 3-4 years of work and travel experience. I also had a prestigious scholarship and internship/work experience in undergrad.

Advice: I studied for the LSAT for a year. Don't take the test until you are ready and if that means you have to sit out a cycle then do it. My biggest piece of advice is to really think about your life experiences, how they shaped who you are, and why that will make you not only a unique voice in the classroom but also a great lawyer---then write your personal statement based on that.

Approx. Time of Application: Right before Thanksgiving

Other acceptances: U Chicago, Columbia, NYU, U Penn, Northwestern, UVA, U Michigan, Duke, Georgetown

Rejections: None

Waitlists: None

Congrats!
Can you specify your race/ethnicity and the undergrad you attended as well?

Thanks.

[rizzlebizness]

Type of URM: MA

Attending: T10 ($$$)

GPA: 3.5

Highest LSAT: 168

Undergrad: big state school

Softs: average

Advice: As a URM, I think getting your GPA as high as possible is the most important component of your application. If your GPA is already locked in, you can have success with the LSAT but I would anticipate taking the LSAT two or three times. Unless your scoring in the mid-high 170s, there is always room for improvement. Even if you think there is a slight possibility you could score one point higher, I would recommend retaking.

Do not be afraid to retake and reapply if you're not happy with your results. The classic TLS response of "retake" does apply to URMs and you can have drastic changes by reapplying. Last year, I received only one acceptance from a T20 at sticker price.

I'll echo others about crafting a narrative with your application. You want to be able to tell a story and have each piece of the application match that story.

Apply every where if you can afford it. (Get fee waivers). URM admissions tend to be unpredictable and scholarships can be even more unpredictable. In order to have real leverage to negotiate, you want to be able to show schools multiple offers.

NEGOTIATE. Negotiating absolutely works. Be persistent but always respectful and polite and you will have success. Do not come across as entitled and really work to show schools you are interested in them. Follow up on a program you want to hear more about, reach out to current students, visit schools, etc. If you have leverage, have demonstrated sincere interest, and you are persistent and polite, schools will provide more money.

Finally, recognize that this is a long process for most. If you want to be as successful as you can be, it will take a lot more of your time than you expect. If you know going in that this will be an extremely long and slow process, I think you will be better equipped to deal when things don't go exactly as you planned. This process should not be rushed. Take your time.

Approx. Time of Applications: September/October

Other acceptances: Michigan (120k), NU (75k), Cornell (75k), GULC (0k), Texas (79k), UCLA (92k), USC (135k), Vandy (95k), WUSTL (135k)

Rejections: Harvard

Waitlists: Stanford, Columbia, Chicago, NYU, Duke, UVA, Penn

Great cycle!!

[dreamer_13]

Super late, but had so much good luck and got so much wonderful advice that I want to share my results:

Type of URM: Black

Attending: Columbia

GPA: 3.6

LSAT: 16X

Undergrad: International

Softs: lots of extra-curriculars, "unique" background, internship

Advice: Apply broadly, apply early and make sure you've put together the best application that you can. Have tons of people read over your PS (even from TLS) to see how your PS comes off to others and make sure that you're painting a consistent narrative.

Approx. Time of Application: early November

Other acceptances: Michigan, Georgetown, BC, Cornell, UC Berkeley, Duke, NYU

Rejections: Stanford

Waitlists: Harvard

GOOD LUCK!

[pike25]

Type of URM: Latino

Attending: BC $$$

GPA: 3.66

LSAT: 163

Undergrad: St. John's

Softs: Published in Undergrad journal, interned for judge in federal court, pre-law summer honors program.

Advice: Apply broadly!

Approx. Time of Application: Dec 1.

Other acceptances: Fordham ($$$), St. John's ($$$$), UF ($$$$),


Rejections: GW, HLS, SLS, Georgetown

Waitlists: NYU, Columbia, U of Chicago, UCLA, Cornell, BU.

[Hi-So - ArshavinFan]

Lol - time to pay the piper (i hate the fact that due to demographics of my UG institution im so easy to id/dox but i digress)

Type of URM:

Attending: T6 ($$)

GPA: 3.3 (Econ with multiple applied courses (Calc, Econometrics, Engineering, etc))

LSAT: 165 (I was PTing at 170-172 for about a month) -
The day of my exam I had to fly from LA - PHX (on business, it couldn't be helped), but it got delayed multiple times and subsequently arrived late. like around 3-4am. I live close to the light rail in phx and didnt have my car at the time, but for some strange reason I had the presence of mind to get a rental car that morning. I went to sleep accidentally around 5 and ( through divine inspiration) i woke up past the start time of the administration. Somehow someway, i got ready and drove to the center in 15-20 minutes. and arrived before the test started ( i guess they admitted people late). I missed 7-8 on RC, which was my first section -so yeah...hahah im bummed

Undergrad: Ball So Hard Univ aka Arizona State Univ (LOL yes indeed i did ball - quite hard - but only freshman year )

Softs: Multiple & Above Average -
BB IB Internship
F100 Fin Analyst Intership
Internship with Mayor's Office of Top 5 City & IDA of same city
Worked throughout college
Volunteered fresh & soph more year
Held leadership positions within multiple orgs, member of multiple orgs
SEO undergrad, and INROADS ug as well
Economic research/data cleaner
4 years WE post grad

Advice: SOOO MUCH

1) Apply Early PLEASE! It's for your own good -

I know y'all see the measly dineros i received lol. Yeahhhhh. That's what happens when YOU decide to apply on the DEADLINE for applications. It honestly couldn't be avoided for me (well it could have, it definitely could have, with proper preparation and planning). Which leads to my next point

2) PLAN ACCORDINGLY -
I'm really proud of my cycle. But I know I would have much more celebrated results if I meticulously planned my applications as all schools suggest. You should NOT have only 20 days to write a personal statement , 10 Why essays, 3 addendums, and etc while working full time + overtime. But those were the cards dealt to me and I managed. But like Hov said - "no, Hov did that, So hopefully you won't have to go through that".

Print out every schools deadline day. If you're in school, make sure you have 4 professors that can write and ask all of them 6 months before. If they give you any hesitation, don't go with them and find another one. Make sure you're hitting 160+ consistently before you take the real thing. There are NO miracles with this test. Make sure you have every document proofread by somebody with exceptional intelligence. There is NO need to take chances with your future. Your essays should be done honestly 1 MONTH before even applying. That means if your applying to 12-15 schools and your on the borderline - you better get started 4-8 months before you even apply.

Also, for those going to less academically rigorous schools or alumni from such schools- the journeys much harder due to lesser resources (I'm generalizing, but that's my experience and the experience of others i talked to). If anybody from the next cycle or future cycles needs examples of properly written addendums (addressing sensitive subjects - mental issues, GPA, tickets - (particularly a DWB one lol), feel free to hit me up and i'll give them to you. I've read this site for 5 years, i figure i better give back now.

3) Apply everywhere in the T14
I didn't follow this advice, stupidly. I was only outwardly rejected twice. (Would have been more if i applied to Y,S and Berk likely) - Don't be afraid to send apps if you feel that you adequately captured your essence within your essays. At the end of the day, multiple acceptances are really nice and make you feel desired, and multiple rejections/WL's can make you feel silly - something everybody wants, and something everybody hates. But you can only attend 1 institution too. so go all out. This is obviously easier with fee waivers and if your GPA isnt high enough, your LSAT will have to be FYI.

4) If youre GPA is low, and youre LSAT isnt above 170, and youre trying to go T14, and you didnt go to an Ivy/Top20 institution
You need to work. Just my opinion. You should work. And get solid experience as well. Case in point. I have a Nigerian friend who attended an ivy and scraped out with a 3.0. Got a 159 on his LSAT. 2 years out, but not serious WE. He had a talk with a school he was WL with and they point blank told him if his score was just 2-3 points higher they wouldn't seriously think they would have a chance at him and he would be coveted by some T14 schools. They told him retake, but he decided to go a school that imo is not going to give him what he wants. But he's convinced he's gonna be in the top 5% and transfer out. It's not my place to judge him, but the situation isn't ideal imo.

5) ASK FOR HELP
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, dont be afraid to pm anybody in their message box ( in particular me) if you need anything. Sometimes i would do this and get no response, or even get half-assed help, but those time i really got true help really made all the difference, especially as I didn't know what the hell i was doing regarding my personal statement and addendums. I wont promise i reply timely, but i will reply with adequate info when i have the time.

6) Quality over Quantity/KNOW YOURSELF - particularly if you're a BORDERLINE candidate

A) There is no point sending out 14 applications if they arent top notch, and you haven't done at least 66-75% of the optional essays. Which means you need to open up the applications when they first available and look at what they're asking. I stupidly browsed lawschoolnumbers and saw people with similar GPAs to mine getting in to schools, and thought i could could just send in a one size fits all application to each school w/o realizing that these guys went to exceptional U/G institutions and their essays were phenomenal.

You want to go to UCLA? Great - just know they have a systematic programming essay you should know about?
MIchigan and youre a URM? You BETTER do the Diversity essay since theyre subject to FOIA and have to prove they aren't considering race in admissions.
And so on and so forth. The essays are the only representational (in terms of character) items subject to your control. you cant waste them.

B) If youre a borderline candidate, you need to write every essay. PERIOD.

Approx. Time of Application:
Late January - Last day for Penn & NYU

Other acceptances: WUSTL, GT, NW

Rejections: Penn (I submitted some terrible optional essays. They weren't on topic + Im sure anybody reading my file saw through the fact i knew next to NOTHING about what makes Penn Law so great. And being a borderline candidate, this probably was the worst application I sent.)

Cornell - PM

Waitlists:
Mich (Stupidly didn't do a Diversity essay, ( did a why Mich and my PS had diversity as a theme - which for my numbers was not enough) and then didnt send a LOCI on the WL),

Duke (Rushed my app because i received a Priority track invite and just wanted a T13 acceptance - in the end i realized a great application on the deadline is way better than rushed one delivered earlier) + Had no clue/inkling about the culture of Duke law and it was super apparent in my Why Duke essay. I suggest you talk to a current student there as these seem to matter quite a bit

UCLA - I stupidly didnt do any of the optional essays + missed the interview request sent by admissions. I actually wanted to withdraw the app for the same reasons as SC, but the WL email came right as i was drafting the message.

Vandy - Again, no optional essays

Withdrawals : SC (too close to home)

[griffy]

Mod edit: This post is so out of line that I'm not letting it stand here. Poster has been banned for discussing the merits of affirmative action outside the thread dedicated to that topic in the lounge. Sorry all.

[kenhope]

Type of URM: Black

Attending: Yale

GPA: 3.77

LSAT: 168

Undergrad: Top Canadain University

Softs: Average to below average for the HYS crowd, I think. Top departmental and university honors, Oxbridge masters, contract position developing and teaching curriculum to students with non-traditional backgrounds at my alma mater.

Advice: Craft an interesting personal narrative. I think I outperformed my numbers by a little bit, especially considering lackluster softs and late applications, and I think that was mostly due to crafting an interesting and cohesive personal narrative throughout my application.

Approx. Time of Application: After the December score release (early January) for most schools, on the last day for Yale.

Other acceptances: Harvard, Michigan (150k), Columbia (Butler Fellowship, 100k), NYU, University of Toronto

Rejections: None

Waitlists: None

fellow black male attending canadian uni here.

If you don't mind me asking what UNI did you attend?

I have a couple other questions as well, really glad to see someone with a similar path as me end up succesful

[jmcali19]

Type of URM: AA, LGBT, Male

Attending: Harvard

GPA: 3.5

LSAT: 160

Undergrad: Top 5

Softs: I’ve had some significant internships and done fairly interesting independent research, but nothing extraordinary. I’m 1 year out of undergrad and do not have a particularly unique job.

Advice: Of course, aim as high as you can with your grades and LSAT score. But do not count yourself out if your numbers are below average. That being said, it is imperative that you do your research on every other component of the application. Think seriously about your personal statement, your resume, who will write your recommendations, etc. Do not compose an application with a hodgepodge of things you think will look good. Find the thread that stitches your application, the paper version of yourself, together. I know this all sounds very abstract, but there is so much to be said about this process that I can’t do it justice in this one post. It’s not impossible to learn if you make the effort, though. Utilize these forums, books, blogs by admissions officers, people who are at the schools you want to attend, and whatever else it takes. As I hope my experience demonstrates, it will be worth it.

I don’t know how active I'll be going forward, but feel free to PM me with questions.

Approx. Time of Applications: Sent mid-January for Harvard and Stanford and the day of the deadline for Yale

Acceptances: Harvard

Rejections: Yale

Waitlists: Stanford

Wowowowow.

Did you apply anywhere else? What else do you credit your success to? Can you talk more about your personal statement.

Please do some more justice pretty pls. Shed more insight. Help us learn.

I am legitimately encouraged by this -- I have a lower GPA (HYP) but a higher GPA, but a few disciplinary issues from undergrad. Wondering if I can gain admission or not. Are you first-gen?