179/2.5 Forum

[nmh2089]

The reason my GPA is so low is because of all of the repeated courses. My undergrad GPA is 3.2 but repeating so many courses from my first two years had brought my lsac GPA down significantly. I have a 179 on the lsat, URM (female AA).

I know other factors don't really affect apps much but do you think it will in my case? Seeing as how much my GPA has suffered from lsac? Basically, what do you think I can get into? Is HYS completely out of the picture? T14?

Before I found out about all this LSAC GPA nonsense, I was hoping for H. I know anything is a long shot and nothing is really guaranteed being a splitter but I still had hope. Now I feel like completely giving up. I'm so bummed. But I'm still going to apply everywhere, we'll see how things go!

My biggest dilemma right now, other than stressing over my GPA, is figuring out exactly what to write my PS about, if I should attach an addendum, get a relevant job/internship, etc. I want to build up my application as much as I can, but I want to go about it the right way.

They should really consider, "I was a stupid 18 year old who had no motivation and was lazy, but look, now I get straight A's because, surprise! I'm actually smart" option you could check off/pick as a legitimate compelling story. Anyways, I slacked off, and ended up retaking most all of the courses I failed. My parents did start their own business and to be honest, I was always there, almost obligated to help out, which definitely distracted me from school but I never really thought of that as an excuse? I don't know. I never want to come off sounding desperate or looking for pity when others have real reasons, you know?

The only place I really want to go is H. And don't tell me, I already know it's a long shot. But I've got to try, right? Anyways, my concern now is how I can most effectively bulk up my app, not by adding 37392039 different activities and jobs and honors, but good quality things that can really boost me. Any suggestions?

Those are all my postings from another thread, I was redirected here
I know, I'm a super splitter and there's no one around that has had stats like mine. Sigh.
My main questions at this point are:
1. Anyone think H is completely out of the picture?
2. Any suggestions/ways to go about my PS? As well as exactly what softs/how many I should add to my app?
3. Should I write an addendum for my grades? I feel like 3.2 to 2.5 may not be the biggest drop in history points wise but I feel like it's significant because it takes my GPA from a low 3 to a mid 2, which is kind of a big deal. I was much more confident with my 3.2 about H, let alone T14.
4. Just any advice in general. Your thoughts, anything would be helpful. I know it's pretty much all up in the air but if you know someone that got something or have any constructive or insightful advice, I would truly appreciate it.

I know this is super long but bear with me. Just trying to get all the info out there.

[PoopNpants]

Damn congrats on that LSAT, must've slaughtered that thing
I think AA plus that score gotta get some T14

[ManoftheHour]

Can you go back in time and get a 4.0?

On a serious note, congrats. Seriously blanket the entire T-14.

[arklaw13]

Apply everywhere and hope for the best. Yours is one of the most unusual set of numbers any admissions committee will ever see.

[FloridaCoastalorbust]

make your entire application revolve around a single, coherent story. i think this will make/break you.

PM me if u want - i had a solid cycle b/c of this strategy. entirely different numbers than u, but still, i think valuable lessons.

[izha]

Your LSAT score is absolutely unique.
I think Harvard might take you. I think Yale will take you.

[Skool]

make your entire application revolve around a single, coherent story. i think this will make/break you.

Yeah, you're not in a terrible spot.

Beyond having a coherent story about who you are and what you want out of law school/life, you need to show them that 2.5 was a function of some set of circumstances that will never happen again. Demonstrate that by extracurriculars/leadership/jobs that show focus, drive, commitment, organization, passion, etc. over a sustained period of time.

With a 179, they'll be inclined to believe you.

I think for your application, "why law school" will be very important. Because they want to know you're not just going to shrug and check out when the material is boring/not challenging.

[DiniMae]

Have you already graduated? If not are you able to add a second major or use some other excuse to spend an extra year and get more grades to help the gpa?

[swampman]

Your LSAT score is absolutely unique.
I think Harvard might take you. I think Yale will take you.

No. Harvard and Yale do not accept sub-3.0s. Period.

I'm sure OP will have a few acceptances in the t14, but HYS is not happening.

[Skool]

Your LSAT score is absolutely unique.
I think Harvard might take you. I think Yale will take you.

No. Harvard and Yale do not accept sub-3.0s. Period.

I'm sure OP will have a few acceptances in the t14, but HYS is not happening.

OP, you would be crazy not to try.

[swampman]

True there's no harm in trying. But people shouldn't be suggesting there's a real likelihood of it happening.

[Skool]

If it were true that there was no "real likelihood of it happening", then there would be harm in OP trying. He or she would just be wasting money.

I think we're light in the data department for Harvard because (to my knowledge), Harvard doesn't publish the lowest gpa/lsat they have recently accepted. Yale does, so there is reason to be skeptical of Yale (it's like a 3.0).

OP could be among 1-5 AA in the country with a score that high. OP is a snowflake. OP can justly be hopeful.

[swampman]

Some people like buying lottery tickets, if you're not going hungry there's no harm in it. But you're not going to win the lottery.

[downbeat14]

.

[CanadianWolf]

"Once I came out of the coma, my grades improved dramatically."

[Skool]

Well, this time next year, please report back, OP. Make sure you start a lawschoolnumbers account so people can learn from your experience.

All the best, OP.

[Nomo]

Work experience is the best way to distance yourself from that GPA. Those terrible early grades might make someone wonder if you could have another meltdown. The best way to prove that it was just that you were young and stupid is to get real work experience, earn a promotion or two, and establish yourself as a reliable person. Getting better grades your last two years of college just doesn't undo that kind of disaster. You need to prove yourself over a prolonged period of time.

[liberalartslawyer]

Is there a specific reason why you started out so poorly? Illness, depression, death in the family or just generally crazy life circumstances? If so make your narrative about that. I had some pretty snow-flakey unusualness in my app, and framing it the right way helped. Pm me if you would like more details.

[nmh2089]

I still plan on applying. I was asking for facts and advice, not opinions or he said she said. I truly appreciate everyone's feedback, but I'm not going to not apply to a school just because you don't think I have a chance. I don't think I'm a guarantee anywhere. Just looking for feedback and to know if anyone has had or heard of a situation with stats similar in any way to mine, that's all.

[nmh2089]

Can you go back in time and get a 4.0?

On a serious note, congrats. Seriously blanket the entire T-14.

Ugh please don't make me cry. But thank you.

Have you already graduated? If not are you able to add a second major or use some other excuse to spend an extra year and get more grades to help the gpa?

I can graduate as soon as January 2016, if I pack it all in. I know it would be best to wait to apply until I have added more units to my GPA to boost it up. My question, if anyone knows, is whether or not your final GPA is taken into consideration? I really want to apply as early as possible, so that would mean my grades up until summer would be relevant, correct? So where does that leave my end of summer GPA compared to my end of college GPA, in terms of what schools take into consideration? Are they going to give me more lenience because I could get my GPA up to a 3.0 by the end of next summer if I decide not to graduate early? Or will that not matter at all? Will they defer my application until spring grades come out? And will that make me miss out on the whole point of applying early, in terms of rolling admissions and $$?

"Once I came out of the coma, my grades improved dramatically."

Can I quote you on that for my PS? What source should I cite?

Well, this time next year, please report back, OP. Make sure you start a lawschoolnumbers account so people can learn from your experience.

All the best, OP.

I definitely will thank you so much!

Work experience is the best way to distance yourself from that GPA. Those terrible early grades might make someone wonder if you could have another meltdown. The best way to prove that it was just that you were young and stupid is to get real work experience, earn a promotion or two, and establish yourself as a reliable person. Getting better grades your last two years of college just doesn't undo that kind of disaster. You need to prove yourself over a prolonged period of time.

I hate hearing this because I know this is THE best option/route to take. I know. And you're completely right. But I don't think it's something's that's in my future. But who knows, we'll see what happens.

[Budfox55]

Is there any strong reason why you HAVE to apply this cycle? If not, why not just take classes next year and in the summer to boost your GPA up and apply during the 2016 fall cycle? That way your GPA will be higher and you wouldn't have to pack all of your classes into a short time, thus decreasing the probability that you'll get as high of a grade. If you just wait a year and get that GPA up, you'll greatly increase your shot at T7 schools and $$.

[PoopNpants]

Is there any strong reason why you HAVE to apply this cycle? If not, why not just take classes next year and in the summer to boost your GPA up and apply during the 2016 fall cycle? That way your GPA will be higher and you wouldn't have to pack all of your classes into a short time, thus decreasing the probability that you'll get as high of a grade. If you just wait a year and get that GPA up, you'll greatly increase your shot at T7 schools and $$.

Does it really matter, OP has prolly the highest AA lsat in the country (maybe ever?)
2.5 and a 2.8/2.9 is still going to be under whatever 25th percentile for whatever school anyways

[rnoodles]

I can graduate as soon as January 2016, if I pack it all in. I know it would be best to wait to apply until I have added more units to my GPA to boost it up. My question, if anyone knows, is whether or not your final GPA is taken into consideration? I really want to apply as early as possible, so that would mean my grades up until summer would be relevant, correct? So where does that leave my end of summer GPA compared to my end of college GPA, in terms of what schools take into consideration? Are they going to give me more lenience because I could get my GPA up to a 3.0 by the end of next summer if I decide not to graduate early? Or will that not matter at all? Will they defer my application until spring grades come out? And will that make me miss out on the whole point of applying early, in terms of rolling admissions and $$?

If I understand this correctly, I'll speak to this because I had a similar concern when I was applying. The schools will only consider whatever the most recent GPA you send them (or, rather, send to LSAC) is. If those are your Summer term grades, then they'll only see everything up to that point. Now it wouldn't really matter in your case given that you're a Fall semester graduate. Most schools probably won't get back to you before mid-December. They'd also want to see a copy of your final transcripts and proof of degree attainment, and I'd be willing to bet that it's going to come off as pretty suspect if you don't send them either one beginning in January onward. So you may get some decisions back before your December grades, but a vast majority will probably still require you to send in your final transcripts before they make their decisions.

In the end, your UGPA is going to be everything up until you were finally awarded your BA/BS. If you wait until this Summer, this Fall, next Summer, next Fall, etc. it won't matter other than the fact that you can up your grades over that time. Then again, don't just take a bunch of intro courses and easy electives, because then you'd present yourself as rather deceitful and contrived. Regardless of your GPA at that point, I think some schools (probably Yale especially) would frown upon that. But hey, what do I know. You have a stellar (and I mean STELLAR) LSAT score. If you manage to bump that GPA up, maybe even by double+ majoring during that time, then you're golden. But there's really no way you will get outright rejected by ALL of the T14. Especially if you have a compelling reasoning for why your grades were low and your transcript reflects an improvement.

[gnomgnomuch]

Is there any strong reason why you HAVE to apply this cycle? If not, why not just take classes next year and in the summer to boost your GPA up and apply during the 2016 fall cycle? That way your GPA will be higher and you wouldn't have to pack all of your classes into a short time, thus decreasing the probability that you'll get as high of a grade. If you just wait a year and get that GPA up, you'll greatly increase your shot at T7 schools and $$.

That's not good advice. Even if you take another 30 full credits, and get a 4.0 in those, your GPA won't be much higher than a 3.0. This would place you way below the 25th percentiles. Sure, a 3.0 is better than a 2.5, but you'd have to postpone your life, possibly take on more debt for undergrad, and etc etc.

If you have an upward grade trend that would be super helpful. If you went 2.0 - 2.5 -3.0 -3.5 and the classes you took got progressively harder, then you can frame that as a personal responsibility narrative. It won't help too much, since overall GPA is what matters, but that could push you into the admit pile.

As an AA 179, you're top .05% of all test takers, ever, possibly the highest AA to ever score on the LSAT - or very close to it. Of course noone can really tell you how you'll do because you're basically a unique data point. Not many people split 179/2.5, and significantly LESS are AA.

Apply broadly T-14, strong regional schools as well. However, expect a lot of rejections, and possibly quiet a few wait-lists. Best case here would be to work for a few years, distance yourself from that GPA, and then apply. You'd have a good shot at NU that way.

Best of luck! And supeeeer congratulations on that 179.

[Lacepiece23]

Is there any strong reason why you HAVE to apply this cycle? If not, why not just take classes next year and in the summer to boost your GPA up and apply during the 2016 fall cycle? That way your GPA will be higher and you wouldn't have to pack all of your classes into a short time, thus decreasing the probability that you'll get as high of a grade. If you just wait a year and get that GPA up, you'll greatly increase your shot at T7 schools and $$.

Does it really matter, OP has prolly the highest AA lsat in the country (maybe ever?)
2.5 and a 2.8/2.9 is still going to be under whatever 25th percentile for whatever school anyways

So no black person has ever scored a 180 on the LSAT? I find that a little hard to believe.