UCLA Racial Issues Forum

[Atmosphere]

As applications are imminent, I want to know if I should permanently strike UCLA off of my list. I have strong numbers and a good chance to be admitted, but I need some closure on the race issues that have been happening at the law school. I'm from the area and have no desire to live anywhere other than LA, however the video by UCLA's black students has scared me away from applying to this school that's otherwise a perfect fit.

Are there any current UCLA URM(or otherwise) students that can weigh in on this issue? I'd be bummed to strike UCLA from my list, but if the environment is still hostile I want no part.

TYIA!

[maroon175]

I didn't go to UCLA, but I think the issue of race on campus has more to do with numbers/representation of blacks on campus than actual hostility.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong though, please.

[NYC2012]

.

[arklaw13]

^^That was my understanding as well from friends and people I know at the law school. UCLA doesn't have affirmative action (banned in California) so it's hard to be as diverse as USC, for example. The students I talked to at admit day (some of whom were minorities) said it was made into a bigger deal by the media and none of them felt any racial hostility. I don't mean to downplay the severity of the situation, that is just what I was told.

I thought USC had like 10 AA people in the entire campus. Wasn't there a video about this?

[moneybagsphd]

OP, no one knows what you're talking about.

[ymmv]

As applications are imminent, I want to know if I should permanently strike UCLA off of my list. I have strong numbers and a good chance to be admitted, but I need some closure on the race issues that have been happening at the law school. I'm from the area and have no desire to live anywhere other than LA, however the video by UCLA's black students has scared me away from applying to this school that's otherwise a perfect fit.

Are there any current UCLA URM(or otherwise) students that can weigh in on this issue? I'd be bummed to strike UCLA from my list, but if the environment is still hostile I want no part.

TYIA!

You haven't submitted applications yet? Why bother with this thread. Note that you shouldn't even consider UCLA on anything much less than a full ride. But it takes less than half an hour to send them your app, so do it and decide about whatever your racial concerns are later.

[NYC2012]

.

[McAvoy]

Yeah I thought Ellie Mystal made this situation a thing and it lacked substance

[Atmosphere]

Sorry for being vague, this is the video.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5y3C5KBcCPI


That coupled with the note that a girl received in her locker or whatever with racial slurs written on it. I just remember a few posters last cycle condemning UCLA for it and I wanted to hear thoughts.

[raekaya]

I didn't go to UCLA, but I think the issue of race on campus has more to do with numbers/representation of blacks on campus than actual hostility.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong though, please.

TITCR

The issue is that African Americans are underrepresented at UCLA, like they are in politics, biglaw retention, and much of higher education. I can't speak for those who made the 33/1100 video (which everyone should watch to get a sense of how some students feel) but it seemed to me that the hostility they address is the same that many blacks feel every day in America and, while it needs to be remedied, is by no means specific to UCLA.

If you are worried about people being more individually racist at UCLA than at other schools then that's just so far from the truth. UCLA is a CA public school and is about as liberal as it gets (though really every opinion is represented). It seemed to me that many students and faculty members were bending over backwards to support the black students last year. Clubs were sending out supportive emails, a march/walkout took place, and the administration took action based on the petition started by the black students (eg. entirely new faculty positions were created for diversity).
In fact, the fact that there was media frenzy should speak to how much support the movement got here to make it that far.

It is true that we need more African American representation and if you are worried you will feel uncomfortable being in the small minority then that's a decision you have to make on your own. I am never going to be a person who says "if you don't like it go to Howard!" but I also can't tell you to be a part of the solution here since I will never know what it feels like to be black, in life or at UCLA.

You should definitely apply and then take the time to talk with students at diversity or admitted students day to get more opinions. Ask a black student plain and simple if they wish they had gone somewhere else instead.

[raekaya]

Sorry for being vague, this is the video.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5y3C5KBcCPI


That coupled with the note that a girl received in her locker or whatever with racial slurs written on it. I just remember a few posters last cycle condemning UCLA for it and I wanted to hear thoughts.

The girl who received the note posted it as a pdf on the FB group and when you look at the pdf's properties you will see that it was originally a word document created by her. So the pdf she uploaded was not a scan but a converted doc. This is the note that all the news reports showed (same font, same placement of the words on the page etc. )

[Atmosphere]

I didn't go to UCLA, but I think the issue of race on campus has more to do with numbers/representation of blacks on campus than actual hostility.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong though, please.

TITCR

The issue is that African Americans are underrepresented at UCLA, like they are in politics, biglaw retention, and much of higher education. I can't speak for those who made the 33/1100 video (which everyone should watch to get a sense of how some students feel) but it seemed to me that the hostility they address is the same that many blacks feel every day in America and, while it needs to be remedied, is by no means specific to UCLA.

If you are worried about people being more individually racist at UCLA than at other schools then that's just so far from the truth. UCLA is a CA public school and is about as liberal as it gets (though really every opinion is represented). It seemed to me that many students and faculty members were bending over backwards to support the black students last year. Clubs were sending out supportive emails, a march/walkout took place, and the administration took action based on the petition started by the black students (eg. entirely new faculty positions were created for diversity).
In fact, the fact that there was media frenzy should speak to how much support the movement got here to make it that far.

It is true that we need more African American representation and if you are worried you will feel uncomfortable being in the small minority then that's a decision you have to make on your own. I am never going to be a person who says "if you don't like it go to Howard!" but I also can't tell you to be a part of the solution here since I will never know what it feels like to be black, in life or at UCLA.

You should definitely apply and then take the time to talk with students at diversity or admitted students day to get more opinions. Ask a black student plain and simple if they wish they had gone somewhere else instead.

Thanks for the response. I'll definitely do that.

[BluePurgatory]

I go to UCLA and kept up with the racial issues because I found them fascinating. I'll preface this with a TL;DR - UCLA is not a hostile or racist climate.Normally I would add a "in my opinion" on the end of that, but, objectively, it just isn't. I'd say it goes out of its way to be as race-conscious as possible. There's a critical race studies program which isn't very common as far as I know, and our students tiptoe around even the most casual racism. The reason there was so much tension in the middle of the year (in my humble opinion) is because a group of 20 or so students has a tendency to seek out anything that they can turn into an awareness campaign, regardless of the effect on the school's reputation.
That video is a perfect example; it's so self-destructive and counterproductive that I think it says a lot about priorities. The whole campaign was called something like 33/1000 (number might be off) which represented the fact that only 33 of UCLA's 1000 law students were black. Nobody was accusing the administration of discriminating in any way, they were basically just saying "look how few black people go to UCLA's law school. Let's fix it somehow...?" No real stated goal or purpose, just raw "awareness" generation. The video, which showcases a few of the black law students as UCLA giving tearful explanations of the fact that they have to represent their race and act a certain way due to the fact that there are no other black students in the law school, has a lot of truth to it, but what purpose does it serve? When I first saw the video, all I could think was that their ultimate goal is to increase the number of black UCLA law students, but if I was a black prospective student and I saw that video, why the hell would I say 'that is the place I wanna go to law school'? It made it on Buzzfeed though, so a lot of people considered it a success.

To break down the reasons people feel like UCLA's campus climate is hostile, there were 3 main "events."
1. The T-Shirt Scandal
Basically, there is a 1L Professor named Professor Sander (Sanders?) who published some article about affirmative action essentially saying it hurt minorities more than it helped them. I read some excerpts when this was a big thing, and it isn't racist or backwards in any way, it's just an article. Regardless of their opinion on affirmative action, most people probably would just view it as a constructive addition to the research regarding the issue. Some students didn't like that, however, and insisted he not be able to teach 1Ls and various other things. The scandal occurred when some of his students made T-Shirts for their softball (I think, possibly dodgeball) team that said Team Sander. This was entirely innocent, there was no agenda behind it, Professor Sander is apparently just a well-liked and overall good guy, and the 1Ls wanted to name their team after him. A few students made a fuss about it, and an article got posted on AboveTheLaw basically decrying UCLA as closet racists. The 1L President posted something on the class facebook page saying "Hey, let's not tell a gossip column that we're racists please" and the response from the people who originally complained was... negative to say the least.
2. The Video
Already went over this above.
3. The Note
This one is pretty bonkers. It all started with a facebook post from the 1L President again regarding a "spree" of robberies in Westwood. There were three robberies in a month, which anywhere else in LA means the police deserve medals, but in Westwood it's considered a neighborhood emergency. Some people responded saying "maybe we should have defense classes" and things like that, and then the bomb was dropped. A black student, we'll call her Janet, responded saying something along the lines of "If I hadn't been blessed with the opportunities to overcome adversity and make it out of the hood, exposing me to greater, I probably would be stealing people's stuff too. You have to wonder what kind of struggle these young brothers are going through that they would risk their 'freedom' for a pair of shoes. They clearly are victims to life circumstances (and probably poverty) as well." And a white student, we'll call Jimmy, responded saying something along the lines of "that may be true, but it doesn't make them any less dangerous when they're robbing you." It devolved into a group of about 10 students on either side basically arguing facebook meta, and whether or not the post was appropriate. There were about 75 comments on the original post, and then Janet also apparently received the racist note in her mailbox that was mentioned before. At that point, everyone painted the entire UCLA campus as racist and hostile, and that's sort of where we are today.

I honestly believe that there is less general racism per capita at UCLA Law than the majority of other law schools. I don't know you personally, but I don't think the campus is hostile unless you have a sort of contrarian nature. The problem is that white students don't like being called racist, and black students don't like feeling like their being silenced. Also, when it's LAW students we're talking about it makes it even worse, because everyone on both sides is so sure that they are right. If you are extremely conscious of issues of race, and you feel like you would've been at the heart of these debates and that's not something you want from a law school, then maybe UCLA isn't for you. But I can say that I have three black friend who I hang out with regularly, and none of them participated in any of those three events I mentioned. They were just casual observers like me. If you just view law school as a chance to learn shit and make friends, it'll be a breeze. People are friendlier at UCLA than most schools, I can guarantee that. Especially because of all the drama last year, people are extra conscious of race, and I think URMs can be fairly comfortable.

That's all I got; basically don't just write UCLA off because it got some bad press. Honestly, you can probably tell that I'm a bit biased, but I tried to paint an objective picture. Take my advice or leave it, it's up to you. If you want any more info or details that I left out, you can PM me.

[Atmosphere]

I go to UCLA and kept up with the racial issues because I found them fascinating. I'll preface this with a TL;DR - UCLA is not a hostile or racist climate.Normally I would add a "in my opinion" on the end of that, but, objectively, it just isn't. I'd say it goes out of its way to be as race-conscious as possible. There's a critical race studies program which isn't very common as far as I know, and our students tiptoe around even the most casual racism. The reason there was so much tension in the middle of the year (in my humble opinion) is because a group of 20 or so students has a tendency to seek out anything that they can turn into an awareness campaign, regardless of the effect on the school's reputation.
That video is a perfect example; it's so self-destructive and counterproductive that I think it says a lot about priorities. The whole campaign was called something like 33/1000 (number might be off) which represented the fact that only 33 of UCLA's 1000 law students were black. Nobody was accusing the administration of discriminating in any way, they were basically just saying "look how few black people go to UCLA's law school. Let's fix it somehow...?" No real stated goal or purpose, just raw "awareness" generation. The video, which showcases a few of the black law students as UCLA giving tearful explanations of the fact that they have to represent their race and act a certain way due to the fact that there are no other black students in the law school, has a lot of truth to it, but what purpose does it serve? When I first saw the video, all I could think was that their ultimate goal is to increase the number of black UCLA law students, but if I was a black prospective student and I saw that video, why the hell would I say 'that is the place I wanna go to law school'? It made it on Buzzfeed though, so a lot of people considered it a success.

To break down the reasons people feel like UCLA's campus climate is hostile, there were 3 main "events."
1. The T-Shirt Scandal
Basically, there is a 1L Professor named Professor Sander (Sanders?) who published some article about affirmative action essentially saying it hurt minorities more than it helped them. I read some excerpts when this was a big thing, and it isn't racist or backwards in any way, it's just an article. Regardless of their opinion on affirmative action, most people probably would just view it as a constructive addition to the research regarding the issue. Some students didn't like that, however, and insisted he not be able to teach 1Ls and various other things. The scandal occurred when some of his students made T-Shirts for their softball (I think, possibly dodgeball) team that said Team Sander. This was entirely innocent, there was no agenda behind it, Professor Sander is apparently just a well-liked and overall good guy, and the 1Ls wanted to name their team after him. A few students made a fuss about it, and an article got posted on AboveTheLaw basically decrying UCLA as closet racists. The 1L President posted something on the class facebook page saying "Hey, let's not tell a gossip column that we're racists please" and the response from the people who originally complained was... negative to say the least.
2. The Video
Already went over this above.
3. The Note
This one is pretty bonkers. It all started with a facebook post from the 1L President again regarding a "spree" of robberies in Westwood. There were three robberies in a month, which anywhere else in LA means the police deserve medals, but in Westwood it's considered a neighborhood emergency. Some people responded saying "maybe we should have defense classes" and things like that, and then the bomb was dropped. A black student, we'll call her Janet, responded saying something along the lines of "If I hadn't been blessed with the opportunities to overcome adversity and make it out of the hood, exposing me to greater, I probably would be stealing people's stuff too. You have to wonder what kind of struggle these young brothers are going through that they would risk their 'freedom' for a pair of shoes. They clearly are victims to life circumstances (and probably poverty) as well." And a white student, we'll call Jimmy, responded saying something along the lines of "that may be true, but it doesn't make them any less dangerous when they're robbing you." It devolved into a group of about 10 students on either side basically arguing facebook meta, and whether or not the post was appropriate. There were about 75 comments on the original post, and then Janet also apparently received the racist note in her mailbox that was mentioned before. At that point, everyone painted the entire UCLA campus as racist and hostile, and that's sort of where we are today.

I honestly believe that there is less general racism per capita at UCLA Law than the majority of other law schools. I don't know you personally, but I don't think the campus is hostile unless you have a sort of contrarian nature. The problem is that white students don't like being called racist, and black students don't like feeling like their being silenced. Also, when it's LAW students we're talking about it makes it even worse, because everyone on both sides is so sure that they are right. If you are extremely conscious of issues of race, and you feel like you would've been at the heart of these debates and that's not something you want from a law school, then maybe UCLA isn't for you. But I can say that I have three black friend who I hang out with regularly, and none of them participated in any of those three events I mentioned. They were just casual observers like me. If you just view law school as a chance to learn shit and make friends, it'll be a breeze. People are friendlier at UCLA than most schools, I can guarantee that. Especially because of all the drama last year, people are extra conscious of race, and I think URMs can be fairly comfortable.

That's all I got; basically don't just write UCLA off because it got some bad press. Honestly, you can probably tell that I'm a bit biased, but I tried to paint an objective picture. Take my advice or leave it, it's up to you. If you want any more info or details that I left out, you can PM me.

Wow. Thanks for taking the time to write that novel for me, I appreciate it and I'm gonna pm you.

[PepperJack]

OP, I don't think it matters. People go to schools where they're likely to get jobs where they want to work. I doubt 99% of white students at any law school take the time to research affirmative action practices at a given school or are aware of any school specific policies not flagrantly brought to their attention. People aren't more likely to be racist, because of them, and I'm sure nobody treats anybody any differently. This situation just makes it harder to get in.