IP/Patent law EE Undergrad Forum

[eaternation]

My brother is currently a junior electrical engineering major. He is considering law school. He'd only consider IP/big law. he has a 2.5 gpa. No work experience besides a 6 month internship at google/apple/large company. URM: MA male. I know he'd need a high LSAT.

How is the legal market for EE undergrad's? Does it make you more attractive to law firms if you have work experience? What kind of grades would he need in law school if he didnt go to Berkeley/Stanford (which are out cus of GPA) and went to a UC Davis/Hastings/Irvine caliber school?

[Jchance]

My brother is currently a junior electrical engineering major. He is considering law school. He'd only consider IP/big law. he has a 2.5 gpa. No work experience besides a 6 month internship at google/apple/large company. URM: MA male. I know he'd need a high LSAT.

How is the legal market for EE undergrad's? Does it make you more attractive to law firms if you have work experience? What kind of grades would he need in law school if he didnt go to Berkeley/Stanford (which are out cus of GPA) and went to a UC Davis/Hastings/Irvine caliber school?

Legal market for EE undergrad is solid. Demand>>Supply. He can attend T2 (Davis/Hastings/Irvine caliber school), get mediocre grades and can still come out fine with a decent paying job. Work Experience would be a plus, though K-JD kids can still manage to get jobs fine.
#IPSecure

[09042014]

My brother is currently a junior electrical engineering major. He is considering law school. He'd only consider IP/big law. he has a 2.5 gpa. No work experience besides a 6 month internship at google/apple/large company. URM: MA male. I know he'd need a high LSAT.

How is the legal market for EE undergrad's? Does it make you more attractive to law firms if you have work experience? What kind of grades would he need in law school if he didnt go to Berkeley/Stanford (which are out cus of GPA) and went to a UC Davis/Hastings/Irvine caliber school?

Legal market for EE undergrad is solid. Demand>>Supply. He can attend T2 (Davis/Hastings/Irvine caliber school), get mediocre grades and can still come out fine with a decent paying job. Work Experience would be a plus, though K-JD kids can still manage to get jobs fine.
#IPSecure

Your post isn't true for someone with a 2.5 GPA in EE. Firms tend to look for either your tech skills or your legal skills and from a T2 and a 2.5GPA he'd have neither.

I'm not saying he wouldn't get a job, but it's not a cakewalk anyway.

[eaternation]

I have told him to get a job first. He seems to have a decent chance to get a job at the large Silicon Valley company he's interning for currently (the 6 month internship mentioned above). Then apply later if he is still interested in law school. Would work experience outweigh grades and make him more marketable ?

[DildaMan]

I have told him to get a job first. He seems to have a decent chance to get a job at the large Silicon Valley company he's interning for currently (the 6 month internship mentioned above). Then apply later if he is still interested in law school. Would work experience outweigh grades and make him more marketable ?

I had a shitty uGPA in that range. Work experience definitely helped during OCI but not much for law-school admissions. I ended up doing patent lit; patent pros firms will probably tell you to suck it with a sub 3.0 gpa (even in EE).

[El Principe]

You can get an engineering job with Apple/Google with a 2.5? Sheesh, I picked the wrong profession.

[kcdc1]

Tell him to apply to work at the USPTO. GPA isn't as big a deal in government, so with his EE degree, he'd be competitive. If he does land a job as a patent examiner, he can either ride out a flexible high-paying gov't career or transition into the patent agent/patent attorney world for a pay bump.

[InTheHouse]

Yeah .... there's a decent demand for IP/EE, but over the last couple of years it does seem like the industry is changing a little. More clients are pressuring us into fixed fee arrangements and more than a couple of EE-prosecution folks end up having to write off hours to keep totals under the fixed fee. This hasn't hit a lot of people yet, but it does seem like this is becoming more common.

BTW, I'm pretty sure the PTO stopped hiring sub-3.0 GPAs a few years ago. I imagine that a weak economy coupled with recent grade inflation means the PTO can afford to be picky.

[kenwash]

Yeah .... there's a decent demand for IP/EE, but over the last couple of years it does seem like the industry is changing a little. More clients are pressuring us into fixed fee arrangements and more than a couple of EE-prosecution folks end up having to write off hours to keep totals under the fixed fee. This hasn't hit a lot of people yet, but it does seem like this is becoming more common.

BTW, I'm pretty sure the PTO stopped hiring sub-3.0 GPAs a few years ago. I imagine that a weak economy coupled with recent grade inflation means the PTO can afford to be picky.

I was told the same thing about the patent prosecution area. People are choosing to go into litigation for that reason. I was also told that a BS in EE isn't enough anymore to go into prosecution...masters or PhD is more desirable. I thought that was the case for the life sciences, but is that also becoming true for engineering?

And is there really no chance for a chemistry BS (with industry work experience) to go into big law prosecution?

[09042014]

Yeah .... there's a decent demand for IP/EE, but over the last couple of years it does seem like the industry is changing a little. More clients are pressuring us into fixed fee arrangements and more than a couple of EE-prosecution folks end up having to write off hours to keep totals under the fixed fee. This hasn't hit a lot of people yet, but it does seem like this is becoming more common.

BTW, I'm pretty sure the PTO stopped hiring sub-3.0 GPAs a few years ago. I imagine that a weak economy coupled with recent grade inflation means the PTO can afford to be picky.

I was told the same thing about the patent prosecution area. People are choosing to go into litigation for that reason. I was also told that a BS in EE isn't enough anymore to go into prosecution...masters or PhD is more desirable. I thought that was the case for the life sciences, but is that also becoming true for engineering?

And is there really no chance for a chemistry BS (with industry work experience) to go into big law prosecution?

I'll believe that BSEE isn't pure gold anymore, but I sort of doubt that means MS or PhD is needed. MSEE is pretty useless. It's just another senior year. And PhD has great value in Industry. It's not like Bio where bio PhD's don't have good options.

[Jchance]

And is there really no chance for a chemistry BS (with industry work experience) to go into big law prosecution?

From the BigLaw patent pros. attorneys I talked to, BS Chem has no chance in coastal states but a decent shot outside of those big cities.

[checkers]

Tell him to go work for a few years doing something related to his degree. He needs to distance himself from his undergrad grades and meaningful work experience can do the trick when it comes time for interviews. Otherwise it will look like he couldn't get a job coming out of school due to his GPA, so he ran to law school. Firms might read that as desperation and question his sincerity about wanting to be a lawyer.

No matter what he does though, a 2.5 GPA will repel admissions deans in one year's time as much as it will in five year's time. That's just the rules of the game they have to play by. If he destroys the LSAT (175+), some lower T14s may give him a chance (Northwestern).

And as for EE, a 3.5+ GPA is still as close to a golden ticket you'll get in law, but a 2.5 GPA is a very different story. Like those above me have said, if firms want you for your technical training, you've got to be able to back it up with a transcript that shows you actually know what you're talking about.

[eaternation]

Thanks for all the replies. What kind of grades do you need in law school outside of the t14 for ip/patent?

[InTheHouse]

I was told the same thing about the patent prosecution area. People are choosing to go into litigation for that reason. I was also told that a BS in EE isn't enough anymore to go into prosecution...masters or PhD is more desirable. I thought that was the case for the life sciences, but is that also becoming true for engineering?

And is there really no chance for a chemistry BS (with industry work experience) to go into big law prosecution?

This is not true. BS in EE is still a good ticket. Having WE or a Masters helps. I get the impression at my firm that WE, advanced degrees, and examining experience are preferred for their marketing value. This makes sense when you realize there's really no good way to choose a patent attorney.

Something shiny for the clients is a nice plus. I have BS from one of the top schools and I know it impresses inventors enough that I don't get the usual condescension some other do. My advice is get something shiny for your resume. You'll be out marketing yourself soon enough.