Native American URM chances Forum

[choctawguy]

I am a member of a prominent federally recognized Tribe. I had a 3.59 GPA, 157 LSAT. Took the LSAT once, and I'm not doing that again. I have LORs from my Dean of Students (regional accredited school) and a mid to high ranking member of my tribe. I have also worked for my tribe for several years in various positions at both our casino enterprises and our government operations. Applying to Harvard, Columbia, SMU, University of Oklahoma, University of New Mexico, and Tulsa Law.

Most people know that Native tribes are nearly always fighting both in court and out of court, and so they need lawyers of every kind. That is why I am applying to law school.

I would like some feedback on my chances please. I think mostly because the wait is killing me!

I would also really like to begin to collect information for other soon-to-be Native lawyers so that they might enhance their chances of getting into 'pedigree' schools.

Thank you!

[Hitchensian]

Retake. And then apply to far more schools than you listed.

[choctawguy]

Thank you for your response! I would love to retake and apply to more but time and money will only allow me to apply for this cycle. At 25.00 a report, this is all I could do. I gotta eat you know!

[Typhoon24]

smu u have a good shot

in at the oklahoma schools

close to a 0% chance at hls/cls

strongly suggest you retake. your lsat is what is keeping you away from the pedigree schools.

[lakers180]

you got plenty of time

get a full time job, and study/retake, then apply next cycle

[El Principe]

Probably should have applied at Georgetown, Cornell, Northwestern, Michigan, Duke and/or other T14s that go below the hard floor of 160 instead of Harvard & Columbia.

From what I've seen from LSN, they hardly, if ever go below 160 for people they want to admit.

[choctawguy]

Thanks! Well SMU is a great school too. I took the LSAT there. The campus is gorgeous and the employment statistics are great. I know the Ivies are a reach.. I really can't afford to wait for another cycle though.

[El Principe]

And I only say retake because you have so few options for apps, and those schools out either a reach (HLS/CLS) or stingy with $$$ (SMU) or not a good investment (okLahoma schools).

Idk how SMU does in Oklahoma either.... although they do quite well in Dallas and Texas overall.

[patogordo]

I really can't afford to wait for another cycle though.

why not

[choctawguy]

Do you get any 'bump' for serving in the military too?

I wanted to apply to around twenty schools, but that is way too expensive for me..

[patogordo]

Do you get any 'bump' for serving in the military too?

I wanted to apply to around twenty schools, but that is way too expensive for me..

you should look into fee waivers. you may be able to apply for free.

[choctawguy]

I applied for the LSAC fee waiver. It gave me four free CAS reports, after that they are 25.00 a pop. I paid for two more (Columbia and Tulsa). I really can't afford more. Wish I could.
Thanks everyone. If anyone out there is Native and has input please feel free to chime in

[transferror]

Apparently Cornell is looking for NA's

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 4&t=223644

[stefne71087]

Hello there, I'm from a prominent east-coast tribe and applying to school for this cycle as well. 3.65UGPA/3.36LSDAS/150 LSAT-also did not want to retake test! I currently work for my tribe in government and gaming development. I'm hoping to get into UofA or Ariz State to study Indian Law. I've already been accepted into Suffolk p/t and was rejected from Harvard (after they sought me out asked me to look into their school via email). Also applied to UofSanFran as another back-up.

Nice to see another Native applying to law school because I can't find too much info on Natives and law school chances. Let me know how things go for you

[John Everyman]

Hello there, I'm from a prominent east-coast tribe and applying to school for this cycle as well. 3.65UGPA/3.36LSDAS/150 LSAT-also did not want to retake test! I currently work for my tribe in government and gaming development. I'm hoping to get into UofA or Ariz State to study Indian Law. I've already been accepted into Suffolk p/t and was rejected from Harvard (after they sought me out asked me to look into their school via email). Also applied to UofSanFran as another back-up.

Nice to see another Native applying to law school because I can't find too much info on Natives and law school chances. Let me know how things go for you

It is surprising. I rarely, if ever, see information on NA chances on these boards. I don't have enough of it in my blood (1/16) to throw it in on apps or anything, but I'm always curious to see how this group fares.

Also, it would be a really, outstandingly, good idea for both of the posters above to retake.

[jace8819]

Applying to Harvard, Columbia, SMU, University of Oklahoma, University of New Mexico, and Tulsa Law.

Harvard and Columbia = 0% chance unless you want to retake the LSAT or have an incredible overcoming hardship story on top of being a Native American

University of Oklahoma = ~85% chance, they have a low overall bar for admittance to their law school, but they also specialize in pretty much two things: (1) petrolium related fields of legal practice **mostly going to be property rights** and (2) native law. Since you want to work in native law, OU would be an ideal destination for you since they are one of only a few schools that actually donate resources to this field of study, you have many different tribes that have tribal seats in Oklahoma for obvious reasons, and they are one of only a handfull of schools that have a Native Law Journal...

UNM - similar to Oklahoma, but OU would probably be your better option.
Tulsa - same boat as OU, you have similar admission chances but OU is more bang for your buck with what you want to study, unless you get scholarship $$$. Based on friends I have had or people I have known that have gone to both law schools, I think Tulsa and OU hold most of their scholarship money for people with LSATs in the mid 160s though.

SMU - chances are probably more 50/50.... but with you wanting to practice Native Law there isn't any real point in you going to SMU. It is almost exclusively a business-minded private law school, it will be much more expensive (living costs + tuition), and won't significantly increase your job outlook.

Hope that helps. Sorry to be harsh about the Harvard/Columbia chances, but the bottom line is if you do not want to retake your LSAT and sit out a cycle you will not have a chance.

EDIT: Also, I am an AI/NA applying this cycle and have done a lot of research into what kind of URM bump there is for native applicants. From what I have read, the bump is similar to that of an AA, so it will do a lot for your but it won't part the seas. If it is indicative/helpful at all, you can find my admission outcomes so far on http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com under the same username.

[jace8819]

It is surprising. I rarely, if ever, see information on NA chances on these boards. I don't have enough of it in my blood (1/16) to throw it in on apps or anything, but I'm always curious to see how this group fares.

For LSAT statistics relevant to Native American applicants, information starts on page 19:

http://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/resea ... r/tr-12-03

**click on the full report at the bottom of the page**

For how many Native American are admitted to law schools each term in recent years:

http://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/data/ ... der-admits

[stefne71087]

Applying to Harvard, Columbia, SMU, University of Oklahoma, University of New Mexico, and Tulsa Law.

Harvard and Columbia = 0% chance unless you want to retake the LSAT or have an incredible overcoming hardship story on top of being a Native American

University of Oklahoma = ~85% chance, they have a low overall bar for admittance to their law school, but they also specialize in pretty much two things: (1) petrolium related fields of legal practice **mostly going to be property rights** and (2) native law. Since you want to work in native law, OU would be an ideal destination for you since they are one of only a few schools that actually donate resources to this field of study, you have many different tribes that have tribal seats in Oklahoma for obvious reasons, and they are one of only a handfull of schools that have a Native Law Journal...

UNM - similar to Oklahoma, but OU would probably be your better option.
Tulsa - same boat as OU, you have similar admission chances but OU is more bang for your buck with what you want to study, unless you get scholarship $$$. Based on friends I have had or people I have known that have gone to both law schools, I think Tulsa and OU hold most of their scholarship money for people with LSATs in the mid 160s though.

SMU - chances are probably more 50/50.... but with you wanting to practice Native Law there isn't any real point in you going to SMU. It is almost exclusively a business-minded private law school, it will be much more expensive (living costs + tuition), and won't significantly increase your job outlook.

Hope that helps. Sorry to be harsh about the Harvard/Columbia chances, but the bottom line is if you do not want to retake your LSAT and sit out a cycle you will not have a chance.

EDIT: Also, I am an AI/NA applying this cycle and have done a lot of research into what kind of URM bump there is for native applicants. From what I have read, the bump is similar to that of an AA, so it will do a lot for your but it won't part the seas. If it is indicative/helpful at all, you can find my admission outcomes so far on http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com under the same username.

Do you have any idea about University of Arizona or Arizona State? Do they look for native preference for their Indian law programs?

[choctawguy]

Thank you very much all following this post. I agree with everyone that T4 schools are a big stretch. As far as a hard luck story, well my story isn't nearly what many Natives have experienced. I agree that OU and Tulsa are my best options for the path I want to take. I also considered AZ schools, but from what I understand with Native law you want to look for a school with ties to tribes that you want to work with. Tulsa, for example is connected to the Mvscogee (Creek) Nation.

Update: I received an invitation to apply to Vanderbilt via email. I went ahead and applied. Looking at the numbers, I am 6 points below the 25% mark.. What do you think about Vandy?

[ghostofdreams]

If you want to work with a tribe in Oklahoma, which it sounds like you do, then I would be happy with OU and Tulsa. However, it sounds like you are reaching for these other top schools to pad your resume. Being challenged is a great idea and I hope that it is what you are looking for. You will also want to consider the Native American emphasis in any school, and the community, particularly if there are Natives there to relate to.

I am assuming you live in OK. If there is a Native American Bar association there I would suggest contacting them. I hear--and I don't know if this is true, but I am going to find out--that they can offer scholarships for an LSAT study program. That might be the financial solution you will need. Good luck and all that jazz.

[choctawguy]

Thanks Ghost. I applied to the upper level schools because I want to go to the best school I can. That said, it would really take being accepted to a top level school to get me to leave my region. SMU is a 1.5 hour drive from my tribe, therefore a good choice if I want to work in Dallas. Many tribes are taking on a more corporate/business internal structure. This makes a JD/MBA from SMU more attractive from that perspective. I agree with you that OU carries more weight in OK than even an SMU degree-shoot OU might actually be more valuable in OK than Yale or Harvard... I like Vanderbilt because it has an excellent reputation. The first Native elected to Congress went to Vandy.