UCI Full Tuition & Fees Forum

[eav1277]

If I wanted to work in NorCal (SF, Sac, or smaller market), would UCI give me a good chance or too much competition from Berkeley, Hastings, Davis, Stanford, SC, LA, & rest of T-14? I'd be ok with OC or LA. Also, I am leaning heavily towards public interest.

I'd only be responsible for housing/cost of living which my parents would either gift/loan.

Thoughts?

[Golden Bear 11]

You forgot USC, UCLA + 12 other T14 schools. SF is a popular market

[ManOfTheMinute]

You wouldn't be in competition with these other schools, as UCI is so far below them. You would compete with Loyola, case western, etc. I really wouldn't do UCI if you have the stats to get into a solid law school - unless you're willing to totally roll the dice on your practice area/geographic location. SC or UCLA would guarantee you a decent job here you want, but you might have to pay.

[BlaqBella]

Also, I am leaning heavily towards public interest.

In that case, UCI may be the school for you. They are heavily focused towards PI. With your numbers, its possible you'll be able to land a full scholly there. No stips.

Anecdotal story: One of my best friends attends UCI on a fully scholly. She has not only landed interviews with some of the top law firms in the NorCal and LA area but also secured a 1L externship with a district court.


Don't count UCI out. Good luck!

[BlaqBella]

When ppl say full ride on tls, do most mean full tuition or full tuition and cost of living.

Full tuition alone.

[bobbypin]

Considering PI pay is much lower than other types of law practice, getting a full ride (tuition) is extremely beneficial. I understand that Irvine is a decent school. I would go considering your circumstances. However, you might want to take that with a grain of salt, because I would attend Willamette with a full ride scholarship as well.

[dingbat]

Also, I am leaning heavily towards public interest.

In that case, UCI may be the school for you. They are heavily focused towards PI. With your numbers, its possible you'll be able to land a full scholly there. No stips.

Anecdotal story: One of my best friends attends UCI on a fully scholly. She has not only landed interviews with some of the top law firms in the NorCal and LA area but also secured a 1L externship with a district court.


Don't count UCI out. Good luck!

Do you really want to bet your life on an untested school? Yeah, the inaugural class (and the next few to a lesser extent) got full schollies and had Erwin Chemerinsky pulling in every favor he could muster, but there comes a point where that kind of goodwill runs out. Unless you get a significant scholarship, I'd advise skipping it (and if you get a significant scholly, you can probably score decent funding at a less risky school, again making it a bad idea)

[zot1]

Also, I am leaning heavily towards public interest.

In that case, UCI may be the school for you. They are heavily focused towards PI. With your numbers, its possible you'll be able to land a full scholly there. No stips.

Anecdotal story: One of my best friends attends UCI on a fully scholly. She has not only landed interviews with some of the top law firms in the NorCal and LA area but also secured a 1L externship with a district court.


Don't count UCI out. Good luck!

Do you really want to bet your life on an untested school? Yeah, the inaugural class (and the next few to a lesser extent) got full schollies and had Erwin Chemerinsky pulling in every favor he could muster, but there comes a point where that kind of goodwill runs out. Unless you get a significant scholarship, I'd advise skipping it (and if you get a significant scholly, you can probably score decent funding at a less risky school, again making it a bad idea)

Though I admire Dean Chemerinsky, the success of UCI students does not rest solely on his (or any of the faculty members') fame. The reality is that we are getting a great legal education that speaks for itself. Maybe you or other TLSers won't believe that, and that's fine; everyone is entitled to their personal opinion.

What I would say, as someone who is already attending law school, is go experience the schools you're considering. UCI was a great fit for me but that doesn't mean it has to be a great fit for everybody.

[suralin]

Also, I am leaning heavily towards public interest.

In that case, UCI may be the school for you. They are heavily focused towards PI. With your numbers, its possible you'll be able to land a full scholly there. No stips.

Anecdotal story: One of my best friends attends UCI on a fully scholly. She has not only landed interviews with some of the top law firms in the NorCal and LA area but also secured a 1L externship with a district court.


Don't count UCI out. Good luck!

Do you really want to bet your life on an untested school? Yeah, the inaugural class (and the next few to a lesser extent) got full schollies and had Erwin Chemerinsky pulling in every favor he could muster, but there comes a point where that kind of goodwill runs out. Unless you get a significant scholarship, I'd advise skipping it (and if you get a significant scholly, you can probably score decent funding at a less risky school, again making it a bad idea)

Though I admire Dean Chemerinsky, the success of UCI students does not rest solely on his (or any of the faculty members') fame. The reality is that we are getting a great legal education that speaks for itself. Maybe you or other TLSers won't believe that, and that's fine; everyone is entitled to their personal opinion.

What I would say, as someone who is already attending law school, is go experience the schools you're considering. UCI was a great fit for me but that doesn't mean it has to be a great fit for everybody.

Great legal education != great employment prospects

[zot1]

Do you really want to bet your life on an untested school? Yeah, the inaugural class (and the next few to a lesser extent) got full schollies and had Erwin Chemerinsky pulling in every favor he could muster, but there comes a point where that kind of goodwill runs out. Unless you get a significant scholarship, I'd advise skipping it (and if you get a significant scholly, you can probably score decent funding at a less risky school, again making it a bad idea)

Though I admire Dean Chemerinsky, the success of UCI students does not rest solely on his (or any of the faculty members') fame. The reality is that we are getting a great legal education that speaks for itself. Maybe you or other TLSers won't believe that, and that's fine; everyone is entitled to their personal opinion.

What I would say, as someone who is already attending law school, is go experience the schools you're considering. UCI was a great fit for me but that doesn't mean it has to be a great fit for everybody.

Great legal education != great employment prospects[/quote]

You can frame it however you like.

When you apply for jobs, you will probably have to submit a writing sample. Some summer employers will give you hypos during interviews, and ALL will do so for post-grad employment. You cannot "wing" that writing sample or how you respond to those hypos; so yes, I believe a great education can take you really far.

But if you believe otherwise, that's fine too.

[dingbat]

^oh, this again

[somewhatwayward]

Great legal education != great employment prospects

You can frame it however you like.

When you apply for jobs, you will probably have to submit a writing sample. Some summer employers will give you hypos during interviews, and ALL will do so for post-grad employment. You cannot "wing" that writing sample or how you respond to those hypos; so yes, I believe a great education can take you really far.

But if you believe otherwise, that's fine too.

*has done at least 50 law job interviews*
*has never been asked a hypo*
*is confused*

[PMan99]

Great legal education != great employment prospects

You can frame it however you like.

When you apply for jobs, you will probably have to submit a writing sample. Some summer employers will give you hypos during interviews, and ALL will do so for post-grad employment. You cannot "wing" that writing sample or how you respond to those hypos; so yes, I believe a great education can take you really far.

But if you believe otherwise, that's fine too.

*has done at least 50 law job interviews*
*has never been asked a hypo*
*is confused*

Some PI places do give hypos I believe, but the UCI troll is still way off base. But as to OP's point, I'm not sure UCI really gives you that great of a shot at Northern California. SF/SV is up there with DC as the toughest major market in the country. If you have serious ties it'll help. If you're going to UCI in order to establish "Cali" ties it very well may not be enough. Then again, CoL over three years probably adds up to 60k or so, and you can work that down if you cut corners. It's not a horrible pick but it's far from guaranteed that you'd be able to find something worthwhile in the bay area.

[somewhatwayward]

When you apply for jobs, you will probably have to submit a writing sample. Some summer employers will give you hypos during interviews, and ALL will do so for post-grad employment. You cannot "wing" that writing sample or how you respond to those hypos; so yes, I believe a great education can take you really far.

But if you believe otherwise, that's fine too.

*has done at least 50 law job interviews*
*has never been asked a hypo*
*is confused*

Some PI places do give hypos I believe, but the UCI troll is still way off base. But as to OP's point, I'm not sure UCI really gives you that great of a shot at Northern California. SF/SV is up there with DC as the toughest major market in the country. If you have serious ties it'll help. If you're going to UCI in order to establish "Cali" ties it very well may not be enough. Then again, CoL over three years probably adds up to 60k or so, and you can work that down if you cut corners. It's not a horrible pick but it's far from guaranteed that you'd be able to find something worthwhile in the bay area.

The guy said "Some summer employers will give you hypos during interviews, and ALL will do so for post-grad employment" (emphasis added). I guess I should have said that among my law job interviews have been multiple post-grad job interviews, and I have never been given an hypo, not that it would be intimidating anyway. Hypos may come up from time-to-time in, like, a DA's office interview, but it is hardly a reason to choose a school. That has to be one of the lamest defenses I have heard so far. Are UCI students' apparently unusually stellar ability to answer hypos going to put food on the table? When jobless UCI graduates are back living in their parents' basement after graduation, will their amazing writing sample keep them warm at night?

I mean, come on. You don't need to go to a particular school to practice answering hypos or polish your writing sample through your legal writing class or with the help of tutors or by yourself. There are several very good legal writing books out there (eg, Point Made; Garner's book - can't remember the title) to guide you. Suppose UCI gives students a marginal advantage in hypo-answering and writing-sample-composing - is that worth $200K? Is it even worth the ~$60K OP would pay in living expenses?

OP, don't make any decisions now. Wait until you have all your offers in hand and then start playing them off one another. You should be able to get better schools than UCI to give you near full rides given how bad schools are hurting right now. They are pretty desperate. Playing hard ball does mean you have to be willing to give them the ultimatum, but it will pay dividends. Good luck!

[eav1277]

Thanks somewhatwayward for the input. Since I would prefer to work in public interest (I know it's a pretty tough market to crack), I def want to try to get the most $$$ I can. However, I also want to make sure I can get a job afterwards. So far the average numbers for and attention/help given to UCI seem ok, but I would actually be deferring (my scholly would be guaranteed at least at UCI) so I would hate for avg numbers/attention given to student drop in that time. Also, it should be ranked by the time I get there (if i were to choose it), correct

[dingbat]

Thanks somewhatwayward for the input. Since I would prefer to work in public interest (I know it's a pretty tough market to crack), I def want to try to get the most $$$ I can. However, I also want to make sure I can get a job afterwards. So far the average numbers for and attention/help given to UCI seem ok, but I would actually be deferring (my scholly would be guaranteed at least at UCI) so I would hate for avg numbers/attention given to student drop in that time. Also, it should be ranked by the time I get there (if i were to choose it), correct? Where it'll be ranked does scare me a little



I am also retaking the LSAT next week. I am hoping for an increase that will help my chances at other schools. I'd love to get into Berkeley (faculty review currently) but UCI full scholly (or $$$ elsewhere) would be hard for me to pass up esp since my parents would cover cost of living. At the same time, I want to make sure any investment they make in my education isn't an entirely horrible one (and try to limit the amount they'd have to contribute by getting $$$).

have you tried UCLA/USC?

[eav1277]

Thanks dingbat. I got rejected at UCLA and am waiting on USC (edit accepted but they won't defer the scholarship). My numbers aren't amazing (which is why I was more surprised by the UCI $$$) but I am retaking next week and pting significantly higher.

[dingbat]

Thanks dingbat. I got rejected at UCLA and am waiting on USC. My numbers aren't amazing (which is why I was more surprised by the UCI $$$) but I am retaking next week and pting significantly higher.

kind of says something about UCI, doesn't it?
Good luck at USC

[eav1277]

Thanks. Also, it wasn't from the general merit scholarships fund (i actually didn't get any scholly with my original acceptance so I ruled out UCI). i got $$$ but due to a separate program through the school

[eav1277]

Dingbat...so in your opinion, would UCI with 0 debt be too much? Due to opportunity cost of employment and other schools I could go to?

So far, I am in at BC (no scholly), Loyola 30K per year, UOP (full scholly, I'm from NorCal), and am waiting on several other schools (lower t-14's that'll hopefully wait for my feb lsat)

[dingbat]

Dingbat...so in your opinion, would UCI with 0 debt be too much? Due to opportunity cost of employment and other schools I could go to?

So far, I am in at BC (no scholly), Loyola 30K per year, UOP (full scholly, I'm from NorCal, and have several uncles who graduated from UOP who would prob help me out if I couldn't find a job), and am waiting on several other schools (lower t-14's that'll hopefully wait for my feb lsat)

I don't think law school with 0 debt is a bad idea. However, if at full ride, there are usually good alternatives at a low cost, and the question becomes comparative. I'd take UCI free over Loyola, and I wouldn't take BC if you want to end up in Cali. I don't know anything about UOP, so I can't comment there. But, with any luck, your feb LSAT will provide you with more/better/fresh options, at which point it's worth re-evaluating.

As recently as last year, UCI's standards were such that UCLA and/or USC would be available for not a lot more, and I'd have said the extra $30-$50k (total) would have been worth it. But, if you're saying you got a scholly at UCI and a rejected/waitlisted at UCLA/USC, it means their standards have dropped (as was reasonably expected)

[Dmini7]

Dingbat...so in your opinion, would UCI with 0 debt be too much? Due to opportunity cost of employment and other schools I could go to?

So far, I am in at BC (no scholly), Loyola 30K per year, UOP (full scholly, I'm from NorCal, and have several uncles who graduated from UOP who would prob help me out if I couldn't find a job), and am waiting on several other schools (lower t-14's that'll hopefully wait for my feb lsat)

I don't think law school with 0 debt is a bad idea. However, if at full ride, there are usually good alternatives at a low cost, and the question becomes comparative. I'd take UCI free over Loyola, and I wouldn't take BC if you want to end up in Cali. I don't know anything about UOP, so I can't comment there. But, with any luck, your feb LSAT will provide you with more/better/fresh options, at which point it's worth re-evaluating.

As recently as last year, UCI's standards were such that UCLA and/or USC would be available for not a lot more, and I'd have said the extra $30-$50k (total) would have been worth it. But, if you're saying you got a scholly at UCI and a rejected/waitlisted at UCLA/USC, it means their standards have dropped (as was reasonably expected)

He did say he wasn't offered ones from the general merit scholarship fund, but from an separate program. OP would you care to elaborate? I am genuinely interested in how you managed to get a full ride from another program.

[eav1277]

Also, I didn't get waitlisted at USC. I'm still waiting.

Dmini dont want to give too much info but I pmed you.

[CAteacherguy]

I'm also currently considering (very seriously) UCI's full tuition + fees offer (the Public Service Fellowship, in my case) vs. GW (with $20K/year and no stips)... and I'm still waiting to see what Emory says and to see how much merit aid Maryland offers me.

My dream job is to work for the Dept. of Ed/Office of Civil Rights on federal education issues, so I ultimately want to end up in the DC area (which is also where I'm originally from, though I've been in northern CA for the past 16 years). What I'm trying to figure out is which school is going to give me the most viable possibility of making that happen.

As I see it right now, the pros of GW for me are that it's ranked, it's in DC, and it places lots of grads in gov. positions. The *huge* negatives for me are the size of the school (~500 1Ls) and that I would walk away with ~120K in debt, even with a little help from my folks, which might actually make it financially impossible for me to take a public service job.

The UCI situation for me (as I see it): rolling the dice by going to an unranked school (negative); no real data on which to base grads' success with gov. positions (negative), but strong clerking numbers (big positive); small size of the school (huge positive for me); UCDC [school-sponsored semester in DC program with lots of fed. gov. placements, including my dream job] looks exciting to me; NO DEBT!; location in the OC is a big negative for me; and possibly getting stuck living in SoCal post graduation is an even bigger negative; focus on public service is a positive, but not a deciding factor for me.

Opinions? Thoughts? Things I haven't considered yet? Some other things to keep in mind: I'm a non-trad/2nd career student and I *know* that BigLaw isn't for me... I also know that I don't want to spend forever paying off my loans and that I do want to have kids and own a home within a few years of graduating from law school. Starting at one school and then transferring after 1L is not a viable possibility for me. Also, I'm in at G-Town, but don't expect to be offered any good aid, so G-Town isn't really on the table at this point.

-CAteacherguy

[somewhatwayward]

Thanks somewhatwayward for the input. Since I would prefer to work in public interest (I know it's a pretty tough market to crack), I def want to try to get the most $$$ I can. However, I also want to make sure I can get a job afterwards. So far the average numbers for and attention/help given to UCI seem ok, but I would actually be deferring (my scholly would be guaranteed at least at UCI) so I would hate for avg numbers/attention given to student drop in that time. Also, it should be ranked by the time I get there (if i were to choose it), correct

Well, presumably the employment numbers and attention are dropping as we speak since each successive class gets bigger, and each successive class' numbers drop. The number dropping part may flatten now that UCI is no longer offering everyone scholarships, but they are still trying to increase the size of their class. With the number of people with high LSATs applying to law school in free fall (although UCI is becoming more well-known among applicants, so that could be a wash for them), it is going to be hard to maintain a mid-160s median while growing a class. It is not too difficult to place a class of 60 students with T15/T20 numbers like the c/o 2012. The real test will be how well does the c/o 2015 place (or, really, how good is placement for whatever class reaches the size they are targeting), but that is too far in the future for you to know.

All that said, it is not a terrible choice for free. Its small size is a positive, and the deans and faculty are motivated to help students get jobs. Like I said earlier, though, wait until the end of your cycle after your Feb LSAT comes in and after you have negotiated with all the other possibilities.