Chances- AA 3.55, 168, Good Softs Forum

[Voco90]

Another one of these! I couldn't really find another person with my profile, so I decided to make a new thread (hopefully this helps other people in a similar situation). I'm particularly interested in Stanford, Georgetown, Northwestern, Columbia, Harvard, Vandy, and Cornell.

Your responses will be greatly appreciated!



Some additional info:
-I live in GA
-Economics Major (3.75 GPA in the major); classics and political science minors
-Class President
-President of an honor society
-Member of ODK (NHS)
-Member of the national economics honor society (ODE)
-Member of Mortar Board
-Corporate Intern at a logistics firm for three summers
-Interned in the legal department of a fortune 500 company.
-Member of my school's judicial board

-Last, I attend a T30 liberal arts school in the Northeast.


Thanks!

[twenty]

"Meh" softs. Around average for T14.

Stanford

Very likely not. You might get lucky, but Stanford, even more so than Harvard, doesn't dig URMs below the 25th GPA. There were a couple AA URMs that got into Stanford with those numbers, but they'd also had work experience.

Georgetown

You're in precluding a random yield protect.

Northwestern

Apply early. Your work experience will make (with money) or break this one.

Columbia

Solid shot at Columbia, probably with small money.

Harvard

H has a tough GPA floor. You'll probably get on the waitlist if you apply early enough.

Vandy, and Cornell.

Excluding YP, almost certain shot.

I'd blanket T14 for sure; you'll get more than a few nibbles. A retake for even a 170 will drastically increase your money at CCN.

[Nova]

How about these profiles? http://search.lawschoolnumbers.com/user ... Cycle=1112

168/3.62/URM - In at Columbia, Cal, UCLA, UT

169/3.43/URM- In at GULC, Cornell, Columbia, NYU, Michigan, UCLA, Vandy, UT, UMN (75k), WUSTL, BC (105k)

168/3.5/AA- Stanford, Cal (120k), UCLA (60k), UM, USC, WUSTL, UT (130k), NWU, NYU (62k), Penn, Columbia (50k), Chicago (60k), Duke (114k),

You are pretty set.

[lawyerwannabe]

Might want to revise the title of the thread considering your softs are mediocre.

Nevertheless, you are in great shape OP. Enjoy the T6!

[Voco90]

Thanks for the responses! I really appreciate them.

And fair call on the softs. It is the T14 afterall.

[franklyscarlet]

take from this what you will; I'm 3.5/168 Hispanic. In at NU and Vandy with $$, GULC with $, WL at cornell, didn't apply to the rest. Not really an exact parallel but I think you'll be in good shape at those (do you have WE? It'll matter for NU).

[lawyerwannabe]

take from this what you will; I'm 3.5/168 Hispanic. In at NU and Vandy with $$, GULC with $, WL at cornell, didn't apply to the rest. Not really an exact parallel but I think you'll be in good shape at those (do you have WE? It'll matter for NU).

Not a very good comparison regardless of number similarity. Hispanic admissions bump =/= AA admissions bump. OP will easily outperform your cycle.

[alpha kenny body]

I'm thinking in at CCN on down with good money at MVP and 3/4 full at Cornell, Georgetown, and Northwestern. WL at H and S.

[titan747]

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 4&t=143301

Check this guys results. Your scores are better and he got a lot of money from top schools.

[franklyscarlet]

take from this what you will; I'm 3.5/168 Hispanic. In at NU and Vandy with $$, GULC with $, WL at cornell, didn't apply to the rest. Not really an exact parallel but I think you'll be in good shape at those (do you have WE? It'll matter for NU).

Not a very good comparison regardless of number similarity. Hispanic admissions bump =/= AA admissions bump. OP will easily outperform your cycle.

exactly. Looking back, I didn't phrase it well, but that's pretty much what I was getting at.

[Voco90]

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 4&t=143301

Check this guys results. Your scores are better and he got a lot of money from top schools.

Wow.. Just. Wow. Thank you so much for this.

[Alltheirsplendor]

Well with the way apps are these days... I'd say you'd have somewhat of a shot at Harvard all on down after. An important question: Are you male or female?

[JamMasterJ]

in everywhere with the possible exception of S.

[kwais]

People need to chill out and reevaluate their regurgitated TLS ideas of softs. This guy didn't say that he had great softs or amazing softs. He said good. These are good. There are thousands of students in the T14, and most of them have these or less softs. At HYS it is a different story, but to say that this dude does not have "good" softs for Duke or Michigan or even NYU or Columbia is flat wrong. Not saying they will materially alter his cycle, but they are good, plain and simple.

[Voco90]

Well with the way apps are these days... I'd say you'd have somewhat of a shot at Harvard all on down after. An important question: Are you male or female?

I'm male

[Voco90]

People need to chill out and reevaluate their regurgitated TLS ideas of softs. This guy didn't say that he had great softs or amazing softs. He said good. These are good. There are thousands of students in the T14, and most of them have these or less softs. At HYS it is a different story, but to say that this dude does not have "good" softs for Duke or Michigan or even NYU or Columbia is flat wrong. Not saying they will materially alter his cycle, but they are good, plain and simple.

I actually made the somewhat noob move of saying "great softs" at first
(I have yet to really figure out the whole editing notification protocol here). My fault there.

Anyways, I, too, think they are good. They do not seem to be above average for HYS, but I think they will help me outside of the top three. I appreciate your words!

[kwais]

People need to chill out and reevaluate their regurgitated TLS ideas of softs. This guy didn't say that he had great softs or amazing softs. He said good. These are good. There are thousands of students in the T14, and most of them have these or less softs. At HYS it is a different story, but to say that this dude does not have "good" softs for Duke or Michigan or even NYU or Columbia is flat wrong. Not saying they will materially alter his cycle, but they are good, plain and simple.

I actually made the somewhat noob move of saying "great softs" at first
(I have yet to really figure out the whole editing notification protocol here). My fault there.

Anyways, I, too, think they are good. They do not seem to be above average for HYS, but I think they will help me outside of the top three. I appreciate your words!

fair enough, and humility is an excellent trait. It's just funny how people talk around here like the t14 is full of Rhodes Olympian Everest Climbers. not the case

[JamMasterJ]

People need to chill out and reevaluate their regurgitated TLS ideas of softs. This guy didn't say that he had great softs or amazing softs. He said good. These are good. There are thousands of students in the T14, and most of them have these or less softs. At HYS it is a different story, but to say that this dude does not have "good" softs for Duke or Michigan or even NYU or Columbia is flat wrong. Not saying they will materially alter his cycle, but they are good, plain and simple.

I actually made the somewhat noob move of saying "great softs" at first
(I have yet to really figure out the whole editing notification protocol here). My fault there.

Anyways, I, too, think they are good. They do not seem to be above average for HYS, but I think they will help me outside of the top three. I appreciate your words!

fair enough, and humility is an excellent trait. It's just funny how people talk around here like the t14 is full of Rhodes Olympian Everest Climbers. not the case

I didn't even read his softs, TBH. Numbers + AA male = virtually any school, with the possible exception of Y and S.

[kwais]

People need to chill out and reevaluate their regurgitated TLS ideas of softs. This guy didn't say that he had great softs or amazing softs. He said good. These are good. There are thousands of students in the T14, and most of them have these or less softs. At HYS it is a different story, but to say that this dude does not have "good" softs for Duke or Michigan or even NYU or Columbia is flat wrong. Not saying they will materially alter his cycle, but they are good, plain and simple.

I actually made the somewhat noob move of saying "great softs" at first
(I have yet to really figure out the whole editing notification protocol here). My fault there.

Anyways, I, too, think they are good. They do not seem to be above average for HYS, but I think they will help me outside of the top three. I appreciate your words!

fair enough, and humility is an excellent trait. It's just funny how people talk around here like the t14 is full of Rhodes Olympian Everest Climbers. not the case

I didn't even read his softs, TBH. Numbers + AA male = virtually any school, with the possible exception of Y and S.

totes agree

[JamMasterJ]

I didn't even read his softs, TBH. Numbers + AA male = virtually any school, with the possible exception of Y and S.

totes agree

tell your school to let me in, by the way

[kwais]

I didn't even read his softs, TBH. Numbers + AA male = virtually any school, with the possible exception of Y and S.

totes agree

tell your school to let me in, by the way

I have followed your cycle and to be honest, I have wanted to tell them that. you are a trooper and I have hopes that a WL will pop for you

[lawyerwannabe]

People need to chill out and reevaluate their regurgitated TLS ideas of softs. This guy didn't say that he had great softs or amazing softs. He said good. These are good. There are thousands of students in the T14, and most of them have these or less softs. At HYS it is a different story, but to say that this dude does not have "good" softs for Duke or Michigan or even NYU or Columbia is flat wrong. Not saying they will materially alter his cycle, but they are good, plain and simple.

Ya. OP's softs are basically irrelevant. Besides YS and maybe UChi / Harvard, law school admissions is based almost purely on numbers. Getting into Columbia vs. Cornell is simply ~4 points on your LSAT, not how many clubs you participated in.

[amc987]

OP, you and I are basically numbers twins. I agree that your chances are very good for almost all of those schools. I think you'll be OK from Columbia down if you do a solid application (strong essays, resume, recs, etc.). I would be careful of assuming anything about Harvard and Stanford just because, as others have said, they have GPA floors. Additionally, while 168 is probably around the 99th percentile for AA applicants, there some AAs who score higher. With our GPAs breaking the 170 barrier might be what makes the difference at H and S.

Check out my LSN profile if you'd like: http://lawschoolnumbers.com/MyWayTilPayday. As you can see, I got into Columbia and a lot of lower-ranked schools in the T14. I was wait listed at Harvard and at Stanford, and I'd be surprised if I made it off at this point.

The best advice I can give you is to apply early, cross your fingers, and hope for the best. If you're absolutely set on attending a T3 school and think you could conceivably score higher, I'd recommend retaking in October. If you managed to get 173+, you'd end up with more money and you'd probably take the GPA floor issue out of play at H and S.

Feel free to PM me if you've got questions you think I can answer. Good luck!

[PMan99]

OP, you and I are basically numbers twins. I agree that your chances are very good for almost all of those schools. I think you'll be OK from Columbia down if you do a solid application (strong essays, resume, recs, etc.). I would be careful of assuming anything about Harvard and Stanford just because, as others have said, they have GPA floors. Additionally, while 168 is probably around the 99th percentile for AA applicants, there some AAs who score higher. With our GPAs breaking the 170 barrier might be what makes the difference at H and S.

Check out my LSN profile if you'd like: http://lawschoolnumbers.com/MyWayTilPayday. As you can see, I got into Columbia and a lot of lower-ranked schools in the T14. I was wait listed at Harvard and at Stanford, and I'd be surprised if I made it off at this point.

The best advice I can give you is to apply early, cross your fingers, and hope for the best. If you're absolutely set on attending a T3 school and think you could conceivably score higher, I'd recommend retaking in October. If you managed to get 173+, you'd end up with more money and you'd probably take the GPA floor issue out of play at H and S.

Feel free to PM me if you've got questions you think I can answer. Good luck!

Harvard's GPA floor for URMs is significantly below a 3.55.

[amc987]

Harvard's GPA floor for URMs is significantly below a 3.55.

I mean, I think you're right if you're talking about an absolute floor. There are URMs (and non-URMs I might add), who get into Harvard with 3.3+ and a super high LSAT score. This year a non-URM applicant got in with a 3.4/177. But I think the common wisdom on TLS (and for law school admissions generally) is that the lower your GPA is, the better your LSAT needs to be to overcome it and vice versa. Schools tend to favor URMs with high GPAs over URMs with higher LSATs, but they'll generally take applicants with either attribute as long as the rest of their application is strong. So, for example, there was an AA male applicant two cycles ago with a 3.49/172 who got into both Harvard and Stanford. I think 170+ counts as a very high LSAT for a URM applicant--a score high enough to compensate for a GPA that's lower than one that Harvard would probably like to see. I would guess that the majority of URMs who get into Harvard and Stanford with much below a 3.7 are applicants with 170+ LSAT scores. There are exceptions to this. There's an AA girl who got into Stanford this year with a 3.5/168. I think a 168 makes things a little dicier for someone with that GPA. It may work out, but it's definitely not a sure thing. And his odds would definitely be improved by scoring above 170. All I meant when I brought up the GPA floor is that Harvard may have a soft floor for people who don't have a certain LSAT. I'm not absolutely sure that 168 is going to be high enough to compensate for the 3.55.

Ironically, I think OP might be a slightly more competitive applicant if he had a GPA that was a couple of tenths higher (say 3.75) and a slightly lower LSAT score (maybe 166). So many URMs this cycle got in with GPAs in the 3.7-3.9 range and LSATs in the 160-165 range. But we'll see. I really hope that everything works out for OP!