Texas Southern University Thurgood Marshall School of Law Forum

[kamaya]

I'm waitlisted at TMSL and would like to correspond with anyone who is waitlisted there also. I'm also interested in hearing from anyone who has experience with that school. Does anyone know if they take many students off of the waitlist? Does anyone know when (other than what's written on their website) they take students off the waitlist? Lets Talk!

[Nova]

TSU is one of the lowest ranked law schools in the country. If your on their waitlist Im guessing you scored under 150. You really need to consider retaking the LSAT. Anybody can prep into a higher percentile with practice.

Retake and try your hardest to get into Tech or STCL.

[Doritos]

Don't settle for Tech or STCL either. Job prospects are garbage there too.

http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/

[Nova]

Don't settle for Tech or STCL either. Job prospects are garbage there too.

http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/

I agree that Tech and STCL will still set the OP up in with an up hill battle. Im just trying to be realistic. Improving one's LSAT score from below the median to around the 90th percentile is unlikely. A score above 160 is all but necessary to attend UH/SMU/Baylor.

OP, work on the LSAT until you have a respectable score. Dont go to Thurgood Marshall.

[kamaya]

TSU is one of the lowest ranked law schools in the country. If your on their waitlist Im guessing you scored under 150. You really need to consider retaking the LSAT. Anybody can prep into a higher percentile with practice.

Retake and try your hardest to get into Tech or STCL.

I have respect for this school for the fact that they give students who otherwise would not have had an opportunity to attend law school a means to their end. Just because someone doesn't score above a 150 on the lsat doesn't mean they are not smart enough to attend law school. I personally believe that its up to the individual to market themselves once they obtain a JD. I respect your response and appreciate your opinion. Thank you for the feedback!

[kamaya]

Don't settle for Tech or STCL either. Job prospects are garbage there too.

http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/

I agree that Tech and STCL will still set the OP up in with an up hill battle. Im just trying to be realistic. Improving one's LSAT score from below the median to around the 90th percentile is unlikely. A score above 160 is all but necessary to attend UH/SMU/Baylor.

OP, work on the LSAT until you have a respectable score. Dont go to Thurgood Marshall.

I agree that it is not realistic to increase one's lsat score from say in the range of 150's to 170's just by prepping, especially within a few months timespan. Nevertheless, I'm still unclear as to why you are suggesting not to attend Thurgood Marshall. Are you making the argument that someone who graduates from that school will not have any job prospects? From what I understand, Thurgood Marshall may not be top ranked, but they have a decent program and some quality professors. I would like for you to elaborate on why you are recommending not to go there. I'm very curious to know why you think that school is a "no go." I appreciate your comment and respect your feedback. Thank you much for your response.

[Nova]

Thanks for being open minded and not defensive.

TSU curves your grade based on your section. Basically, if they suck, you are fucked. On top of that, they flunk out the bottom of the class every year. Which happened to....


This guy:

Well...I enjoyed it while it lasted. I had a great year with a great section. Sadly I fell victim to the curve in one class I had a 90.41 and in another an 84 and they both curved to C's. I feel very confused and embarrassed. Where do i go from here? I learned so much and now I have no where to go to school. The good thing is I won three scholarships during the year and a great internship at a north Texas public interest firm...I hope to start school somewhere new in the fall.

This thread has the best info I have seen on TSU. Definitely read it all.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... p?f=4&t=52


Btw op, are you a urm? Or did you post this in this forum because TSU is a prodominatly urm school? Just wondering.

I hope that helps. Seriously, I want you to do well. You write well enough to make me think you can improve your LSAT and get into a better school that is not so cut throat.

[kamaya]

Thanks for being open minded and not defensive.

TSU curves your grade based on your section. Basically, if they suck, you are fucked. On top of that, they flunk out the bottom of the class every year. Which happened to....


This guy:

Well...I enjoyed it while it lasted. I had a great year with a great section. Sadly I fell victim to the curve in one class I had a 90.41 and in another an 84 and they both curved to C's. I feel very confused and embarrassed. Where do i go from here? I learned so much and now I have no where to go to school. The good thing is I won three scholarships during the year and a great internship at a north Texas public interest firm...I hope to start school somewhere new in the fall.

This thread has the best info I have seen on TSU. Definitely read it all.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... p?f=4&t=52


Btw op, are you a urm? Or did you post this in this forum because TSU is a prodominatly urm school? Just wondering.

I hope that helps. Seriously, I want you to do well. You write well enough to make me think you can improve your LSAT and get into a better school that is not so cut throat.

I've actually came across that thread that you put up from that person who got "curved out" of Texas Southern throughout my old research of TMSL threads. What I don't undestand is this whole curve process. I've read about it and for the lide of me still can't understand if someone scores 90's on exams and let's say perhaps the majority of the other students score 80's on their exams, how will that person who scored in the 90's curve downward? A curve is supposed to help those students who did not score well to gain points as a result of the person who scored the highest in the class. Granted, not every student will receive an "A." And I surely don't think that person would waste time to write their experience on a forum about how he got kicked out of law school. From what experience do you have with Thurgood Marshall? Are you going by information that people are writing on forums or are you a current or former student of the school? I'm interested to know if you can give some feedback on your understanding of this downward grading curve as well. Also, what is a URM?

[Ludo!]

From reading that thread it seems like professors had discretion in how they curved their classes and he was unlucky enough to have a professor that curved low. So while he had good grades for the section they weren't good enough compared to the rest of the first year class and he got cut. Sounds brutal. (someone correct me if my reading of that is wrong)

You don't want to go to a school that flunks out a significant portion of their class. The schools that do this are ones that have notoriously low bar passage rates and they flunk students out to keep passage rates at the bare minimum required for accreditation. That's not the kind of school you want to go to. While it probably has great professors and good programs, it has terrible job prospects and that should be your number one concern in choosing a law school. A retake can do wonders for your future. Good luck!

[Nova]

I've actually came across that thread that you put up from that person who got "curved out" of Texas Southern throughout my old research of TMSL threads. What I don't undestand is this whole curve process. I've read about it and for the lide of me still can't understand if someone scores 90's on exams and let's say perhaps the majority of the other students score 80's on their exams, how will that person who scored in the 90's curve downward? A curve is supposed to help those students who did not score well to gain points as a result of the person who scored the highest in the class. Granted, not every student will receive an "A." And I surely don't think that person would waste time to write their experience on a forum about how he got kicked out of law school. From what experience do you have with Thurgood Marshall? Are you going by information that people are writing on forums or are you a current or former student of the school? I'm interested to know if you can give some feedback on your understanding of this downward grading curve as well. Also, what is a URM?

The curve is not supposed to boost scores. Its not like undergrad. It is simply to distinguish student's performances from each other. It forces part of the class to finish at the bottom, even if they all did solid work. Thus, it actually hurts the bottom of the class, even if they still managed to produce good work. If one scores in the 90s and the rest of the class scores 80s then the student with the 90somthing will get the A. But at TSU, it could be curved down because of the performance of your peers in your section. IMO this is fundamentally unsound.

I am not a former or current student. I looked into the school when I was applying. I am a native Texan and was born in Houston.

You say you respect the school for helping people get their JDs who normally wouldn't have the opportunity. I argue that schools like TSU are a burden on a legal market that is extremely over saturated. Of the 45,000 new law grads ever year, less than 60% land full time legal employment. Those who don't overwhelmingly come from fourth tier schools like TSU and Wesleyan.

A URM is an under represented minority among lawyers. They include African Americans, Mexican Americans, Puerto Ricans, and Naitive Americans. These groups receive a bump during the admissions process because schools want diversity that reflects the general population. I am a URM.

Like I said, your English is good. You would be doing yourself a disservice to attend TSU and not retake the LSAT. The LSAT is more important than 4 years of undergrad. It should be given your highest priority.

[kamaya]

From reading that thread it seems like professors had discretion in how they curved their classes and he was unlucky enough to have a professor that curved low. So while he had good grades for the section they weren't good enough compared to the rest of the first year class and he got cut. Sounds brutal. (someone correct me if my reading of that is wrong)

You don't want to go to a school that flunks out a significant portion of their class. The schools that do this are ones that have notoriously low bar passage rates and they flunk students out to keep passage rates at the bare minimum required for accreditation. That's not the kind of school you want to go to. While it probably has great professors and good programs, it has terrible job prospects and that should be your number one concern in choosing a law school. A retake can do wonders for your future. Good luck!

His experience was not a positive one, that's for sure. Job prospects are a concern for any law graduate. If the school has good professors and good programs then it is up to the individual to market themselves with what they've learned and the connections they've made throughout their law school experience to become employed whether it be working for a firm, govt, or working for themselves.

[rad lulz]

From reading that thread it seems like professors had discretion in how they curved their classes and he was unlucky enough to have a professor that curved low. So while he had good grades for the section they weren't good enough compared to the rest of the first year class and he got cut. Sounds brutal. (someone correct me if my reading of that is wrong)

You don't want to go to a school that flunks out a significant portion of their class. The schools that do this are ones that have notoriously low bar passage rates and they flunk students out to keep passage rates at the bare minimum required for accreditation. That's not the kind of school you want to go to. While it probably has great professors and good programs, it has terrible job prospects and that should be your number one concern in choosing a law school. A retake can do wonders for your future. Good luck!

His experience was not a positive one, that's for sure. Job prospects are a concern for any law graduate. If the school has good professors and good programs then it is up to the individual to market themselves with what they've learned and the connections they've made throughout their law school experience to become employed whether it be working for a firm, govt, or working for themselves.

Only 58% of law students get full time bar-passage required jobs these days. You can't "market" yourselves into jobs that don't exist. Even in the good economy, a disproportionate amount of grads who didn't get real jobs came from less prestigious schools like TSU.

And if you think law school prepares you for actual solo practice you're deluded. The pseaudo-intellectual BS of the classroom does not translate to real life law practice, and law school doesn't teach you how to run a business or stuff like getting clients.

[Richie Tenenbaum]

From reading that thread it seems like professors had discretion in how they curved their classes and he was unlucky enough to have a professor that curved low. So while he had good grades for the section they weren't good enough compared to the rest of the first year class and he got cut. Sounds brutal. (someone correct me if my reading of that is wrong)

You don't want to go to a school that flunks out a significant portion of their class. The schools that do this are ones that have notoriously low bar passage rates and they flunk students out to keep passage rates at the bare minimum required for accreditation. That's not the kind of school you want to go to. While it probably has great professors and good programs, it has terrible job prospects and that should be your number one concern in choosing a law school. A retake can do wonders for your future. Good luck!

His experience was not a positive one, that's for sure. Job prospects are a concern for any law graduate. If the school has good professors and good programs then it is up to the individual to market themselves with what they've learned and the connections they've made throughout their law school experience to become employed whether it be working for a firm, govt, or working for themselves.

The quality of your legal education is not going to be significantly different at most law schools. What will be significantly different are the job prospects. Like it or not, the legal industry is full of snobs. Going to this law school means that many legal employers won't even consider hiring you. There is no reason to take such a huge risk on whether you are even able to find legal employment by attending a school with horrible placement rates when simply doing better on one single test can drastically change your career prospects by going to schools with much better placement rates.

[Ludo!]

His experience was not a positive one, that's for sure. Job prospects are a concern for any law graduate. If the school has good professors and good programs then it is up to the individual to market themselves with what they've learned and the connections they've made throughout their law school experience to become employed whether it be working for a firm, govt, or working for themselves.

jobs are a concern for every graduate but they're a lot more of a concern at a school like this. All schools have good profs and programs, that's not a selling point. Job prospects should be your one and only criteria for choosing a school and the prospects are very bad from this school.

Going to a school with placement this bad and then just expecting to hang a shingle and pull yourself up by the bootstraps is not a realistic plan

[kamaya]

From reading that thread it seems like professors had discretion in how they curved their classes and he was unlucky enough to have a professor that curved low. So while he had good grades for the section they weren't good enough compared to the rest of the first year class and he got cut. Sounds brutal. (someone correct me if my reading of that is wrong)

You don't want to go to a school that flunks out a significant portion of their class. The schools that do this are ones that have notoriously low bar passage rates and they flunk students out to keep passage rates at the bare minimum required for accreditation. That's not the kind of school you want to go to. While it probably has great professors and good programs, it has terrible job prospects and that should be your number one concern in choosing a law school. A retake can do wonders for your future. Good luck!

His experience was not a positive one, that's for sure. Job prospects are a concern for any law graduate. If the school has good professors and good programs then it is up to the individual to market themselves with what they've learned and the connections they've made throughout their law school experience to become employed whether it be working for a firm, govt, or working for themselves.

Only 58% of law students get full time bar-passage required jobs these days. You can't "market" yourselves into jobs that don't exist. Even in the good economy, a disproportionate amount of grads who didn't get real jobs came from less prestigious schools like TSU.

And if you think law school prepares you for actual solo practice you're deluded. The pseaudo-intellectual BS of the classroom does not translate to real life law practice, and law school doesn't teach you how to run a business or stuff like getting clients.

People have several different reasons for going to law school. Don't get Hung up on statistics. I never said that law school prepares you for solo practice. Not everyone has the skills necessary to hang up their own shingle. For those who do have experience in business and law and/or the courts from previous work experience should only delve into that arena. Not everyone on this forum is a 20 something fresh out of college.

[rad lulz]

Some people like to pay lots of money to not get a job. Got it.

[kamaya]

Some people like to pay lots of money to not get a job. Got it.

I don't think anyone would want to pay lots of money for an education and it be all for naught. Don't sound so bitter. You said you got it, but I guess not.

[The Rover]

You said you got it, but I guess not.

Unfortunately they don't teach sarcasm at law school either

[Doritos]

Some people like to pay lots of money to not get a job. Got it.

I don't think anyone would want to pay lots of money for an education and it be all for naught. Don't sound so bitter. You said you got it, but I guess not.

I think you'd make a great Texas Southern University Thurgood Marshall School of Law student. Attend, at full price if need be. Looks like we're done here guys.

[kamaya]

Some people like to pay lots of money to not get a job. Got it.

I don't think anyone would want to pay lots of money for an education and it be all for naught. Don't sound so bitter. You said you got it, but I guess not.

I think you'd make a great Texas Southern University Thurgood Marshall School of Law student. Attend, at full price if need be. Looks like we're done here guys.

It's nice to meet another one of the disgruntled TLS members. Your facetiousness has been noted.

[Doritos]

Some people like to pay lots of money to not get a job. Got it.

I don't think anyone would want to pay lots of money for an education and it be all for naught. Don't sound so bitter. You said you got it, but I guess not.

I think you'd make a great Texas Southern University Thurgood Marshall School of Law student. Attend, at full price if need be. Looks like we're done here guys.

It's nice to meet another one of the disgruntled TLS members. Your facetiousness has been noted.

I think the main reason you are getting a negative reaction here is that you asked for advice, we give you some (don't attend), and then you get all defensive. If you are set on attending this TTTT go right ahead but don't come and ask for advice and act incredulous when we say you shouldn't go there.

[boredatwork]

I have an actual question: so we know from your various posts what you might be able to do to defray the costs of LS, but what do you want to do?

[kamaya]

I think the main reason you are getting a negative reaction here is that you asked for advice, we give you some (don't attend), and then you get all defensive. If you are set on attending this TTTT go right ahead but don't come and ask for advice and act incredulous when we say you shouldn't go there.[/quote]

I initially asked if anyone was familiar with being on the wait list at TMSL, and no one bothered to give me an answer to my question. Instead, the responses I've received was not to attend that school at all. I was looking for conversation from people who actually went there or who are in a similar situation. Nevertheless, I actually don't mind the back and forth and even entertaining the negative comments. I joined this forum to hear from current, former and even "wanna be" law students and so far I think I've heard a little something from someone in each of those catagories. I was simply defending my point of view. However, I appreciate the feedback; both good and bad.

[kamaya]

I have an actual question: so we know from your various posts what you might be able to do to defray the costs of LS, but what do you want to do?

Your question is too vague. Please be more specific.

[Ludo!]

I think the main reason you are getting a negative reaction here is that you asked for advice, we give you some (don't attend), and then you get all defensive. If you are set on attending this TTTT go right ahead but don't come and ask for advice and act incredulous when we say you shouldn't go there.

I initially asked if anyone was familiar with being on the wait list at TMSL, and no one bothered to give me an answer to my question. Instead, the responses I've received was not to attend that school at all. I was looking for conversation from people who actually went there or who are in a similar situation. Nevertheless, I actually don't mind the back and forth and even entertaining the negative comments. I joined this forum to hear from current, former and even "wanna be" law students and so far I think I've heard a little something from someone in each of those catagories. I was simply defending my point of view. However, I appreciate the feedback; both good and bad.[/quote]

Your point of view is from someone who is not in law school. The people that are in law school are the ones you should be listening to and we're telling you there is absolutely no way you should go to this school and you can't just fall back on the plan of hanging out a shingle if you don't get a job