AA Male- Necessary LSAT for Full Rides Forum

[Obelisk18]

3.45 GPA

Mediocre to poor softs. Fine, but probably not spectacular, recommendations. Strong personal statement. Taking the October LSAT. Most recent LSAT practice test: 169, after 10 days studying. Looking at:

U Mich
Notre Dame
George Washington
University of Maryland (in-state)
George Mason

I'm basically looking to go to the best school where I can realistically get a full-ride. What sort of LSAT would I need to have a decent shot at a full-ride at these schools? Give me an idea for each school individually, if you could. I hesitate to guess my eventual score but A.) I'm consistently perfect at CR, which is supposedly the hardest to improve. B.) I have plenty of time left at the end of the LR sections so, I assume, as I get better at identifying my weak points, I'll significantly improve from my current -3 to -4 per section. And C.) When I understand how to diagram a Game (I've only run through about 1/3 of the Logic Games Bible, so I'm still winging more than half the games), I finish it in well under 8 minutes and 45 seconds (around 7, on average).

Would a 175 be sufficient for a full-ride at all but U Mich? Would even a 180 get me a full-ride at U Mich, or are my peripherals (GPA, softs) just too weak? Also, are there any schools I haven't listed which are both better and more likely to give me a full-ride? Am I shooting too high or too low? I can (and do) look at the lawschoolpredictor for likelihood of admittance but I can't get a very good read on merit aid. My criteria is avoiding debt. I want to go to law school and exit with options but I don't want to be burdened by a need to get a 6 figure job, immediately, in order to pay off debt. A little debt (2-5k per year) is acceptable, if the school is sufficiently prestigious (for instance, I probably wouldn't choose a full-ride at Maryland over 3k a year in loans at Michigan) but beyond that, no. I've been out of school for a year and half now, so all I knew about this process, from personal involvement, has faded. I really need some advice.

[Justdoingmybest]

Here is what I know. I hope its helpful

1. If you do get a score >169 your LSAT score would be in good shape for most schools. As for your GPA, its set so there nothing u can do about that. Is the 3.4 your LSAC GPA or your regular GPA? There are programs you can find online to help calculate that. It may go up or down depending on the grades u get and your school grading system.

2. As for full ride I am not sure anyone can definitely tell you if you can get a full ride. But I believe you have nothing to lose. with a great LSAT score u might also want to look at more T14 schools. Unless u are set with the schools you already listed. Work hard on the LSAT and it will increase the chances of you getting more money.

3. Personal statements should be well, Personal. I advice u give your self a day or 2 to think about what u want to write. an event in your past that led u to law? Something that represents YOU and makes YOU stand out. You could also write a Diversity statement if you wish. I believe that it might help you fully display yourself to the admissions board.

4. Get great recommendations. Make sure they know YOU and can paint a great picture of U.

I don't know how helpful this was but I believe that if u work hard anything is possible. Don't focus to much on the past. Just move forward. And I do hope and pray u get a full ride to U Michigan.

PS. Excuse any typos. I'm doing this from my phone.


Goodluck.

[20121109]

You're an AA male who just scored a 169 after only 10 days of studying. Use the coming month to study for October and get a 170+

Let me be blunt. You should only apply to the T14, and targeting HYS. Assuming you score a 170+, you're in at H, with decent, but not as strong chances at Y and S because your GPA is a little on the low side. Get rid of Notre Dame, George Mason, George Washington and the University of Maryland from your list. If you want a full ride, maximize your LSAT score and get a Rubenstein at Chicago, a Darrow at Michigan...maybe even a Hamilton at Columbia, and if you're the first in your family to go to grad school, the Ann Bryce at NYU.

Also, stop playing with LSP. It's a really, really poor indicator for URM admissions. Search the URM forum for great profiles on AA men who recently applied to law school. You truly are in a great position. Don't preclude any opportunities by aiming too low.

Good luck

[dkt4]

you're probably gonna end up with something close to my cycle...although if you apply earlier you will almost definitely get more scholarship money. i got some scholarships, but i applied at the deadline and missed out on some other opportunities.

its also worth noting that even full rides won't cover your full cost of attendance for the majority of schools, just tuition, so you'll likely have debt regardless of how your cycle plays out. gaia's right though, you really should be aiming at the top tier schools because the employment prospects are substantially stronger.

[DreamsInDigital]

GAIA, I know you probably have a lot more experience than me, but that seems a little overly optimistic. I would think OP would need to be close to 180 for a chance at HYS, or most of the named scholarships you mentioned.

If money is a big concern (and you don't end up improving more than 2 or 3 points), look at schools in the midwest. I can almost guarantee a full ride. But as someone else pointed out, this almost always still means almost 20k per year in loans for living expenses (what I am dealing with right now).

If you end up above 172, I think you are a lock for a few T14s with a lot of money at the bottom end.

Hit 176+, and aim for the sky.

I would definitely recommend writing a strong DS and PS. Looking back, I think my topics were amazing, but I could have used a lot more help editing/structuring. Don't be afraid to have people you trust help you out (and maybe even some people on here). There is an amazing community on here and you should use it, especially to help you through your prep for the re-take.

I am incredibly happy with where I ended up but I always wonder what could have been if I had found TLS earlier and decided to retake and use the resources here.

[20121109]

GAIA, I know you probably have a lot more experience than me, but that seems a little overly optimistic. I would think OP would need to be close to 180 for a chance at HYS, or most of the named scholarships you mentioned.

Yeah....no. I personally know of four AA males at HLS....Their numbers: 172/3.2, and 170/174/3.25, 170/3.4, 169/3.5. They were not WLed, but outright accepted. If OP gets a 170+, he's in at HLS. Harvard routinely takes the largest amount of AAs in the entire T14. The only comparable school is Georgetown. We have the largest BLSA chapter in the US. His chance of getting a great scholarship is also not out of reach given that he clearly has potential to get a 175+ score. Two cycles ago, an AA male got a Darrow with a 177, 3.4. Getting a 169 after only 10 days of studying? I mean, come on...dude is set. That's why I told him to maximize to his LSAT score because if he does, money will simply be thrown at him.

OP, just work your ass off this next month and destroy the LSAT. You will have an awesome cycle.

[JamMasterJ]

GAIA, I know you probably have a lot more experience than me, but that seems a little overly optimistic. I would think OP would need to be close to 180 for a chance at HYS, or most of the named scholarships you mentioned.

If money is a big concern (and you don't end up improving more than 2 or 3 points), look at schools in the midwest. I can almost guarantee a full ride. But as someone else pointed out, this almost always still means almost 20k per year in loans for living expenses (what I am dealing with right now).

If you end up above 172, I think you are a lock for a few T14s with a lot of money at the bottom end.

Hit 176+, and aim for the sky.

I would definitely recommend writing a strong DS and PS. Looking back, I think my topics were amazing, but I could have used a lot more help editing/structuring. Don't be afraid to have people you trust help you out (and maybe even some people on here). There is an amazing community on here and you should use it, especially to help you through your prep for the re-take.

I am incredibly happy with where I ended up but I always wonder what could have been if I had found TLS earlier and decided to retake and use the resources here.

No it's not

[spleenworship]

GAIA, I know you probably have a lot more experience than me, but that seems a little overly optimistic. I would think OP would need to be close to 180 for a chance at HYS, or most of the named scholarships you mentioned.

I think you are underestimating the AA male difference.

OP gets 170+ and he is looking at full rides at several of the T14.

[DreamsInDigital]

Guess I've been proven wrong. Either way, congrats OP, you are def going to end up somewhere awesome.

[JamMasterJ]

Guess I've been proven wrong. Either way, congrats OP, you are def going to end up somewhere awesome.

it's K. Your Harrison Ford pic makes up for it

[yngblkgifted]

GAIA, I know you probably have a lot more experience than me, but that seems a little overly optimistic. I would think OP would need to be close to 180 for a chance at HYS, or most of the named scholarships you mentioned.

I think you are underestimating the AA male difference.

OP gets 170+ and he is looking at full rides at several of the T14. everywhere save YHS

[PDaddy]

3.45 GPA

Mediocre to poor softs. Fine, but probably not spectacular, recommendations. Strong personal statement. Taking the October LSAT. Most recent LSAT practice test: 169, after 10 days studying. Looking at:

U Mich
Notre Dame
George Washington
University of Maryland (in-state)
George Mason

You get a 169 and you won't have to worry about any of these schools. You can certainly get a full scholly to them.

Why aren't Virginia, Penn, Duke, Northwestern, and Cornell on your list? AA's with scores barely over 160 have gotten 75-100% schollys or better at those schools. Their GPA's may/may not have been slightly higher, but with fewer applicants, who knows? You may be able to get a full scholly at one of the five schools I named.

I assume you have no interest in HYS CCN because you have predetermined that you will not get a full, merit-based scholly at any of those. While you arecould be right, that doesn't mean that your tuition won't be covered in full if you can demonstate acute need. And it doesn't mean you can't get 75% scholly plus a 25% need-based grant. Harvard, for example, doesn't give "scholarships" at all, but need-based "grants" are available, sometimes for full tuition.

I tend to agree that you will probably receive full rides at most of the T14 except HYS, schools that will likely fight over you and the other 30+/- AA's who score 170+, and find a way to make sure you aren't taking out loans.

[CanadianWolf]

Score in the 160s to get a full tuition scholarship to many tier one law schools. With a 164 or higher, just apply to the Top 14 & any other law schools you prefer.

[dkt4]

I tend to agree that you will probably receive full rides at most of the T14 except HYS, schools that will likely fight over you and the other 30+/- AA's who score 170+, and find a way to make sure you aren't taking out loans.

[Obelisk18]

Thanks for the help guys. I still don't think I'll end up applying to HYS but I've definitely added a few schools to the list. Update on my progress (I'm taking on Saturday). After killing myself for a month, I've averaged 174.6 on my last 5 tests, with a high of 177, so fingers crossed. I don't think I have a good enough handle on LG to have much of a shot at a 180 (averaging -3, low of -1) but I'm expecting that, even with nerves, I won't do worse than 172.

[yngblkgifted]

Thanks for the help guys. I still don't think I'll end up applying to HYS but I've definitely added a few schools to the list.Update on my progress (I'm taking on Saturday). After killing myself for a month, I've averaged 174.6 on my last 5 tests, with a high of 177, so fingers crossed. I don't think I have a good enough handle on LG to have much of a shot at a 180 (averaging -3, low of -1) but I'm expecting that, even with nerves, I won't do worse than 172.

Dude, there is no reason why you shouldn't go to YHS if you get in your practice range on the real deal.

[PDaddy]

I tend to agree that you will probably receive full rides at most of the T14 except HYS, schools that will likely fight over you and the other 30+/- AA's who score 170+, and find a way to make sure you aren't taking out loans.

Actually, I was trying to be diplomatic for all of the disgruntled people on TLS who hate the "AA Male advantage". So let me just be str8 with you. OP is GOING to get into at least one or possibly all three of HYS if he scores above 169. He may or may not be lying about the 10 days of study, but it makes no difference.

The score is the score. OP is also looking at a strong possibility of a full ride at an elite school. Oh yes, and if he gets into all three of HYS, they will "bid" for him, as schools do. I watched Penn and UVA get into a bidding war over my friend, whose numbers were really strong enough to get her into HYS. Penn won out. So I have seen it.

I have seen AA dudes with LSAT's lower than 160 get into Harvard, and their GPA's were reportedly in the 3.75 vicinity. There was recently an AA female who went to Harvard with a 4.0/153 from ND UG.

Re: Grants. Harvard doesn't give out merit-based schollys, as I am sure you already know. Just because schools get into a bidding war doesn't meant hey have to offer full schollys. That's what i meant by fighting over the few top scoring AA's but not necessarily getting full rides at HYS. Nevertheless, I believe any AA with a 3.25+/170+ could recieve a full ride at any school.

[foolishgirl33]

I am in a less ideal situation.

Asian American/African American male with a mid-160s score and a 3.5 from an Ivy. My softs are very strong, including a PhD. I don't mind the loans. Is it a pipe dream to ED to Columbia?

Thanks for good wishes and support

[PMan99]

People are over/under stating things. Y is out, 100%. Stanford is a possibility but not guaranteed - some people that low slip by, others don't. If he gets high enough on his LSAT H is easily the most likely, although not a "lock" as some suggest - a quick glance at LSN shows a good number of WL-d URM splitters at H.

That being said OP should apply to the T14 and nothing lower.