Help me out Forum

[Bmarce]

I am an African-American male. When I graduate I will have a GPA in the 3.37 to 3.40 range. I just took my first(cold) diagnostic and got a 155. I am taking a prep course and I really plan to study hard this summer in preparation for the October LSAT. I met with a pre-law advisor today . I told him my dream schools would be the University of Washington or William and Mary. My reach schools were the University of Florida and Florida State. Well he laughed at me, according to him I am aiming far too low. He said that if I can get in the low to mid 160's that I should have no problems getting into either W&M or Washington and that I could easily get into Florida State and Florida. He said I should be setting my sights higher.
So...

Is my prelaw advisor correct? I know URM status makes a difference but my GPA is below the median for Florida, W&M and Washington. A 165 is higher than Florida's mean but lower than the Median score at William and Mary and Washington.

Exactly what difference does URM status make? Is it tangible?

If I get in the low to mid 160's, where should I apply?

Also slightly off topic...

How does the LSAC deal with W's? I have some on my transcript. I suppose that they are non punitive because they have no affect on my GPA. So that means the LSAC shouldn't count them right?


Appreciate the help.

[saito816]

Yes, most definitely set your sights higher. I am an AA male as well, and I was accepted to Harvard with a 160 LSAT 3.87 gpa, so while my gpa was higher, if you score in the mid 160s anything is possible really. If you can score a bit in the mid 160's you should really be targeting the T14.

[Greenz]

I am an African-American male. When I graduate I will have a GPA in the 3.37 to 3.40 range. I just took my first(cold) diagnostic and got a 155. I am taking a prep course and I really plan to study hard this summer in preparation for the October LSAT. I met with a pre-law advisor today . I told him my dream schools would be the University of Washington or William and Mary. My reach schools were the University of Florida and Florida State. Well he laughed at me, according to him I am aiming far too low. He said that if I can get in the low to mid 160's that I should have no problems getting into either W&M or Washington and that I could easily get into Florida State and Florida. He said I should be setting my sights higher.
So...

Is my prelaw advisor correct? I know URM status makes a difference but my GPA is below the median for Florida, W&M and Washington. A 165 is higher than Florida's mean but lower than the Median score at William and Mary and Washington.

Exactly what difference does URM status make? Is it tangible?

If I get in the low to mid 160's, where should I apply?

Also slightly off topic...

How does the LSAC deal with W's? I have some on my transcript. I suppose that they are non punitive because they have no affect on my GPA. So that means the LSAC shouldn't count them right?


Appreciate the help.

LSAC counts W's if they’re on your transcript, so your GPA might drop some.

[yngblkgifted]

You should be shooting higher as far as what schools you should apply to and also your final LSAT score. A cold diagnostic of 155, with the right amount of prep should land you in the vicinity of 170. Notice the "right amount of prep" caveat. It should be non-stop studying all summer with over 20 timed PTs, and with 60 PTs being the goal.

As far as which schools to apply to, I think that you would have a shot at William and Mary with the 155, IMO. That's why your advisor laughed at you. Better to have your advisor laugh at you for aiming too low than for aiming too high.

T14 T10 should be what you're aiming for.

[CoriOlivia]

LSAC counts W's if they’re on your transcript, so your GPA might drop some.

This is not true. A withdrawn class is only considered in your lsdas gpa if it is WF WNP or some other sort of negative withdraw code. A normal W does not affect your GPA.

[dpk711]

If you get a 165+ then apply everywhere. I don't see HYS necessarily happening but who knows. Definitely though, you will get some of the lower T14 assuming you get a 165 on a real test.

[Flustercluck]

For a URM with a 3.3+ GPA you really have a lot of options, essentially your breakdown is as follows:

170 = Outside shot at HYS, likely in at at least one of CCN, MVP for sure, and DCNG w/some $
165 = Outside shot at CCN, likely at least one of MVP, DCNG likely, T20 w/some $
160 = Outside shot at MVPDCNG, more likely T30, $ is possible.

In other words, focus everything on the LSAT. Any school where your LSAT is above median should be pretty much a given as long as your GPA stays above 3.3.

Good luck!

[Bmarce]

LSAC counts W's if they’re on your transcript, so your GPA might drop some.

This is not true. A withdrawn class is only considered in your lsdas gpa if it is WF WNP or some other sort of negative withdraw code. A normal W does not affect your GPA.

I just called the LSAC. They said that normal W's are omitted.

[Corwin]

If you raise your LSAT by a few points, you can get into W&M with those numbers. Take a look at the admission statistics: http://wm.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats. A sampling of a few URM admits: 158/3.06, 158/3.5, 160/3.11, 164/3.0.

[Bmarce]

I appreciate all the replies.

I have a moderate amount of student loans from undergrad. Where could I aim if I want a balance between money and ranking?

[Bmarce]

For a URM with a 3.3+ GPA you really have a lot of options, essentially your breakdown is as follows:

170 = Outside shot at HYS, likely in at at least one of CCN, MVP for sure, and DCNG w/some $
165 = Outside shot at CCN, likely at least one of MVP, DCNG likely, T20 w/some $
160 = Outside shot at MVPDCNG, more likely T30, $ is possible.

In other words, focus everything on the LSAT. Any school where your LSAT is above median should be pretty much a given as long as your GPA stays above 3.3.

Good luck!

I haven't been on this forum for that long. Can you break down some of those abbreviations for me?

[CoriOlivia]

I haven't been on this forum for that long. Can you break down some of those abbreviations for me?

Here's the link to the jargon/abbreviations thread: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =2&t=18478

They're basically abbreviations for the top schools but you should be able to see them all here -
HYS = Harvard, Yale, Stanford
CCN = Chicago, Columbia, NYU
MVP = Michigan, Virginia, Penn
DCNG = Duke, Cornell, Northwestern, Georgetown
At least I hope those are right as I'm fairly new here, myself.

[Bmarce]

I haven't been on this forum for that long. Can you break down some of those abbreviations for me?

Here's the link to the jargon/abbreviations thread: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =2&t=18478

They're basically abbreviations for the top schools but you should be able to see them all here -
HYS = Harvard, Yale, Stanford
CCN = Chicago, Columbia, NYU
MVP = Michigan, Virginia, Penn
DCNG = Duke, Cornell, Northwestern, Georgetown
At least I hope those are right as I'm fairly new here, myself.

Thanks for the Help.

[Alltheirsplendor]

For a URM with a 3.3+ GPA you really have a lot of options, essentially your breakdown is as follows:

170 = Outside shot at HYS, likely in at at least one of CCN, MVP for sure, and DCNG w/some $
165 = Outside shot at CCN, likely at least one of MVP, DCNG likely, T20 w/some $
160 = Outside shot at MVPDCNG, more likely T30, $ is possible.

In other words, focus everything on the LSAT. Any school where your LSAT is above median should be pretty much a given as long as your GPA stays above 3.3.

Good luck!

TITCR

Although I would say that for HYS you're looking at a 173+ Yale might be too much of a shot because of the GPA but Stanford and Harvard are much more doable. Study like crazy for the LSAT. It means an unbelievable amount to adcoms (justifiably).

Edit: Teach a man to fish...

Check out this website: http://lawschoolnumbers.com/
Also, check out the LSAT prep stuff around here for help. I've got a couple of guides too. If you'd like them just PM me.

[Bmarce]

How trustworthy is Lawschoolnumbers.com? Would I have a legitimate shot and Cornell or Michigan?

[dkt4]

How trustworthy is Lawschoolnumbers.com? Would I have a legitimate shot and Cornell or Michigan?

people fudge their numbers some there at times, but generally it's a good idea to give you a rough picture of what schools you have a chance at. nothing's a guarantee.

you need a real score to know your chances at Cornell or Michigan, though. 165+ and your chances are probably solid, 170+ and you're in as good a position as you can be.