Stats on URM Forum
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting
Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are sharing sensitive information about bar exam prep. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.
Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned."
Anonymous Posting
Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are sharing sensitive information about bar exam prep. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.
Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned."
-
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:34 pm
Stats on URM
How are they actually doing in law school? failing miserably?
-
- Posts: 20063
- Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm
- Stanford4Me
- Posts: 6240
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:23 am
Re: Stats on URM
Doesn't matter, firms want us.
-
- Posts: 3727
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:23 pm
Re: Stats on URM
It may mean that you get to be window dressing at a firm, but there are some studies showing that URMs are less likely to make partner. I think I might have read the study on the LSAC website.Stanford4Me wrote:Doesn't matter, firms want us.
From what I remember, the takeaway was that URMs do as well in firms as their grades would predict. Take from that what you will.
-
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:32 pm
Re: Stats on URM
I believe the reason URMS do not make partner is because after a few years of experience other opportunities are open to them that leave. I remember reading this but will look for the site!
-
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:34 pm
Re: Stats on URM
Thanks...Really wondering if many are setting their self failureMiranda 18 wrote:I believe the reason URMS do not make partner is because after a few years of experience other opportunities are open to them that leave. I remember reading this but will look for the site!
-
- Posts: 644
- Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:09 pm
Re: Stats on URM
I think alot of URMS don't make partner for the same reason a lot of women don't. Law is and will be for some time, and "Old Boys" Culture, especially at large firms. Many URMS have much better opportunities and exit options then try to change/dig through the culture at firms.
As far as URMS in lop law school, most seem to do fine, at least in respect to getting jerbs, which is all the matters really.
As far as URMS in lop law school, most seem to do fine, at least in respect to getting jerbs, which is all the matters really.
-
- Posts: 3727
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:23 pm
Re: Stats on URM
Found the paper I was referring to:bdubs wrote:It may mean that you get to be window dressing at a firm, but there are some studies showing that URMs are less likely to make partner. I think I might have read the study on the LSAC website.Stanford4Me wrote:Doesn't matter, firms want us.
From what I remember, the takeaway was that URMs do as well in firms as their grades would predict. Take from that what you will.
http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/ ... kowitz.pdfHow Status, Prestige and School Performance Shape Legal Careers wrote: A few years ago, one of us (Sander) published a study of the use of racial preferences in big law firm hiring.19 Sander found that although firms hired blacks in proportion to their numbers in the applicant pool, to do so they had to select blacks with much lower law school GPAs than their white counterparts. The lower grades seemed to handicap blacks substantially in the big law “tournament”, plausibly leading to much higher attrition and lower rates of partnership attainment. Sander conceded that he had only indirect evidence for the role of law school GPA in law firm success, and therefore advanced the argument as a mere hypothesis.
-
- Posts: 20063
- Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm
Re: Stats on URM
IIRC, URM's generally tend to get lower law school grades than others because they are admitted with lower LSAT/GPA numbers. Thus to hire them in proportion a firm has no choice but to hire ones with lower grades.
-
- Posts: 3727
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:23 pm
Re: Stats on URM
You are presupposing that the relationship between LSAT/UGPA and law school performance holds holds equally for minority admits as for others. I would guess that it does, I just don't know.bk187 wrote:IIRC, URM's generally tend to get lower law school grades than others because they are admitted with lower LSAT/GPA numbers. Thus to hire them in proportion a firm has no choice but to hire ones with lower grades.
Does anyone know if the LSAT/UGPA correlation study published by LSAC used race as a independent variable?
-
- Posts: 20063
- Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm
Re: Stats on URM
If you watch the youtube video I posted above he says that the LSAT correlation is even stronger for AA's than for others.bdubs wrote:You are presupposing that the relationship between LSAT/UGPA and law school performance holds holds equally for minority admits as for others. I would guess that it does, I just don't know.
- BruceWayne
- Posts: 2034
- Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:36 pm
Re: Stats on URM
Sanders study has been shown to have several flaws.bk187 wrote:If you watch the youtube video I posted above he says that the LSAT correlation is even stronger for AA's than for others.bdubs wrote:You are presupposing that the relationship between LSAT/UGPA and law school performance holds holds equally for minority admits as for others. I would guess that it does, I just don't know.
http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/news/2 ... ohnson.htm
http://www.slate.com/id/2117745/
In addition, it should be noted that Sanders is also responsible for this study, which has some particularly egregious flaws in its reasoning.
http://www.nationaljurist.com/content/g ... tudy-finds
Last edited by BruceWayne on Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:34 pm
Re: Stats on URM
According to that video lsat/gpa only account for,at most, 20 percent of law school grades.
-
- Posts: 20063
- Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm
Re: Stats on URM
I'll admit that I didn't look any deeper than the vid.
- Stanford4Me
- Posts: 6240
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:23 am
Re: Stats on URM
Oh, I know. I remember reading a paper a few years ago that discussed the issue of minority performance in law firms. I was being sarcastic with my original post.bdubs wrote:It may mean that you get to be window dressing at a firm, but there are some studies showing that URMs are less likely to make partner. I think I might have read the study on the LSAC website.Stanford4Me wrote:Doesn't matter, firms want us.
From what I remember, the takeaway was that URMs do as well in firms as their grades would predict. Take from that what you will.