URM 2016-2017 Cycle Thread Forum

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[brinicolec]

In Ann Ivey's admissions book she says that schools like to take URM with high GPAs because it balances out a lower LSAT in most cases. Particulary for t1 schools hyperfocused on rankings. Penn seems to only accept 3.8+ and waitlist the rest and Stanford's lawschoolnumber looks the same. I wonder if there's any truth to this; by accepting splitters and reverse splitters they can give less scholarships out and balance their medians, etc...

I will be the exception for Penn then. TLS also said I would be waitlisted and I wasnt...

I think that admissions are more nuanced than anyone gives them credit for.

Not to dispute your point per se, but I think the above theory implicitly assumes URM applicants with LSATs below median, and your LSAT is at Penn's 75th

So is the idea that you need to have a 75th LSAT to get away with a 25th GPA?

[bunney_j]

In Ann Ivey's admissions book she says that schools like to take URM with high GPAs because it balances out a lower LSAT in most cases. Particulary for t1 schools hyperfocused on rankings. Penn seems to only accept 3.8+ and waitlist the rest and Stanford's lawschoolnumber looks the same. I wonder if there's any truth to this; by accepting splitters and reverse splitters they can give less scholarships out and balance their medians, etc...

I will be the exception for Penn then. TLS also said I would be waitlisted and I wasnt...

I think that admissions are more nuanced than anyone gives them credit for.

Not to dispute your point per se, but I think the above theory implicitly assumes URM applicants with LSATs below median, and your LSAT is at Penn's 75th

So is the idea that you need to have a 75th LSAT to get away with a 25th GPA?

. Basically, yes. Ivey kind of goes on this tangent about URMs and states something like if a candidate has a 163 and a 3.9 or a 166 and a 3.0, the school might theoretically take the 163 as they might boost or maintain their median GPA and will be lowering their LSAT either way. So if they can get someone with a 176 and a 3.0, the 163 and 3.9 might "balance" this out. I've seen some people discuss this on splitter/chance me thread.

But I see how it can go both ways. URMs with high LSATs are rare, so schools would want to scoop those up obviously. But I imagine for lower tier 1 schools or even lower t20/t14 schools this GPA theory might be true..

All speculation from TLS and Ivey, but she's also the one who said URMs can get a 5-10 LSAT boost in the admissions process which some people here believe so idk. *And I recommend Iveys book on admissions bc it's really frank about URM acceptances, which can be even more of a black box..

[Mr_Chukes]

The way the admissions go is a computer does most of the work. There is a threshold for people who are automatically rejected and accepted based off the number that is generated from the LSAT and GPA score. 1/3 is automatically rejected and 1/3 are accepted. The middle half is then read and studied by admissions officers. They make their decisions with that.

[brinicolec]

In Ann Ivey's admissions book she says that schools like to take URM with high GPAs because it balances out a lower LSAT in most cases. Particulary for t1 schools hyperfocused on rankings. Penn seems to only accept 3.8+ and waitlist the rest and Stanford's lawschoolnumber looks the same. I wonder if there's any truth to this; by accepting splitters and reverse splitters they can give less scholarships out and balance their medians, etc...

I will be the exception for Penn then. TLS also said I would be waitlisted and I wasnt...

I think that admissions are more nuanced than anyone gives them credit for.

Not to dispute your point per se, but I think the above theory implicitly assumes URM applicants with LSATs below median, and your LSAT is at Penn's 75th

So is the idea that you need to have a 75th LSAT to get away with a 25th GPA?

. Basically, yes. Ivey kind of goes on this tangent about URMs and states something like if a candidate has a 163 and a 3.9 or a 166 and a 3.0, the school might theoretically take the 163 as they might boost or maintain their median GPA and will be lowering their LSAT either way. So if they can get someone with a 176 and a 3.0, the 163 and 3.9 might "balance" this out. I've seen some people discuss this on splitter/chance me thread.

But I see how it can go both ways. URMs with high LSATs are rare, so schools would want to scoop those up obviously. But I imagine for lower tier 1 schools or even lower t20/t14 schools this GPA theory might be true..

All speculation from TLS and Ivey, but she's also the one who said URMs can get a 5-10 LSAT boost in the admissions process which some people here believe so idk. *And I recommend Iveys book on admissions bc it's really frank about URM acceptances, which can be even more of a black box..

Idk if I'm buying the 5-10 point LSAT boost. That would make my LSAT comparable to folks with over a 170 - and I'm definitely not getting that kind of love

[bunney_j]

In Ann Ivey's admissions book she says that schools like to take URM with high GPAs because it balances out a lower LSAT in most cases. Particulary for t1 schools hyperfocused on rankings. Penn seems to only accept 3.8+ and waitlist the rest and Stanford's lawschoolnumber looks the same. I wonder if there's any truth to this; by accepting splitters and reverse splitters they can give less scholarships out and balance their medians, etc...

I will be the exception for Penn then. TLS also said I would be waitlisted and I wasnt...

I think that admissions are more nuanced than anyone gives them credit for.

Not to dispute your point per se, but I think the above theory implicitly assumes URM applicants with LSATs below median, and your LSAT is at Penn's 75th

So is the idea that you need to have a 75th LSAT to get away with a 25th GPA?

. Basically, yes. Ivey kind of goes on this tangent about URMs and states something like if a candidate has a 163 and a 3.9 or a 166 and a 3.0, the school might theoretically take the 163 as they might boost or maintain their median GPA and will be lowering their LSAT either way. So if they can get someone with a 176 and a 3.0, the 163 and 3.9 might "balance" this out. I've seen some people discuss this on splitter/chance me thread.

But I see how it can go both ways. URMs with high LSATs are rare, so schools would want to scoop those up obviously. But I imagine for lower tier 1 schools or even lower t20/t14 schools this GPA theory might be true..

All speculation from TLS and Ivey, but she's also the one who said URMs can get a 5-10 LSAT boost in the admissions process which some people here believe so idk. *And I recommend Iveys book on admissions bc it's really frank about URM acceptances, which can be even more of a black box..

Idk if I'm buying the 5-10 point LSAT boost. That would make my LSAT comparable to folks with over a 170 - and I'm definitely not getting that kind of love

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... hp?t=44641

Haha there's a lot of debate around what she's said, but I think even the TLS page on URMs quotes her!

[bunney_j]

The way the admissions go is a computer does most of the work. There is a threshold for people who are automatically rejected and accepted based off the number that is generated from the LSAT and GPA score. 1/3 is automatically rejected and 1/3 are accepted. The middle half is then read and studied by admissions officers. They make their decisions with that.

Sarcasm?? Bc this isn't true at all. One of my LOR is from someone who is on a t20 admissions board right now. She hasn't divulged much and can't make a decision on my app but they look at every one. Also spoke to a t6 former dean (mentioned upthread) who admitted a 149!!!! in her day.

[bunney_j]

http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 4&t=126031

Does anyone else find it cathartic to read through old URM cycles and see positive admissions results in much more competitive cycles? I've seen some 155-162s getting into Stanford in 08. Legendary stuff.

[Mr_Chukes]

The way the admissions go is a computer does most of the work. There is a threshold for people who are automatically rejected and accepted based off the number that is generated from the LSAT and GPA score. 1/3 is automatically rejected and 1/3 are accepted. The middle half is then read and studied by admissions officers. They make their decisions with that.

Sarcasm?? Bc this isn't true at all. One of my LOR is from someone who is on a t20 admissions board right now. She hasn't divulged much and can't make a decision on my app but they look at every one. Also spoke to a t6 former dean (mentioned upthread) who admitted a 149!!!! in her day.

"In her day." Someone on the admissions board from Berkeley told me that's how it is done. Computers handle most of it. Except at Berkeley they actually do review most of the apps.

[Hi-So - ArshavinFan]

This cycle is proving to be more unpredictable (read: negative) than anticipated when backed up against the previous 2-3 cycles and outcomes of similar number applicants. Anyone else feeling this way?

yup, especially for schools like nyu and cornell

If it's true that LSAT scores are down then I wonder what the reason is? maybe Cornell is involved in YP shenanigans but I don't see why NYU would be

I'm wondering if T14 schools are going to try to increase their GPA median instead of their LSAT median because high LSATs are down, which would lead to people like me (low GPA) having a tougher cycle.

This is the theory for Cornell and if you look at MyLSN, it would be the case.

I wouldn't fret too much. You're number are pretty good ( or at least better than mine).

[bunney_j]

The way the admissions go is a computer does most of the work. There is a threshold for people who are automatically rejected and accepted based off the number that is generated from the LSAT and GPA score. 1/3 is automatically rejected and 1/3 are accepted. The middle half is then read and studied by admissions officers. They make their decisions with that.

Sarcasm?? Bc this isn't true at all. One of my LOR is from someone who is on a t20 admissions board right now. She hasn't divulged much and can't make a decision on my app but they look at every one. Also spoke to a t6 former dean (mentioned upthread) who admitted a 149!!!! in her day.

"In her day." Someone on the admissions board from Berkeley told me that's how it is done. Computers handle most of it. Except at Berkeley they actually do review most of the apps.

Lol idk. Why would Berkeley admit 153s and 150s (on LSN)? And reject 170s? I think they might look at apps less closely or have students review them not faculty? But that seem not holistic at all...

ETA: her day was 2007ish - when apps were more competitive

[Mr_Chukes]

The way the admissions go is a computer does most of the work. There is a threshold for people who are automatically rejected and accepted based off the number that is generated from the LSAT and GPA score. 1/3 is automatically rejected and 1/3 are accepted. The middle half is then read and studied by admissions officers. They make their decisions with that.

Sarcasm?? Bc this isn't true at all. One of my LOR is from someone who is on a t20 admissions board right now. She hasn't divulged much and can't make a decision on my app but they look at every one. Also spoke to a t6 former dean (mentioned upthread) who admitted a 149!!!! in her day.

"In her day." Someone on the admissions board from Berkeley told me that's how it is done. Computers handle most of it. Except at Berkeley they actually do review most of the apps.

Lol idk. Why would Berkeley admit 153s and 150s (on LSN)? And reject 170s? I think they might look at apps less closely or have students review them not faculty? But that seem not holistic at all...

ETA: her day was 2007ish - when apps were more competitive

That was 10 years ago lol. Numbers aren't everything. You can have a 170 and have a shit personal statement and bad letters of rec lol.

[bunney_j]

The way the admissions go is a computer does most of the work. There is a threshold for people who are automatically rejected and accepted based off the number that is generated from the LSAT and GPA score. 1/3 is automatically rejected and 1/3 are accepted. The middle half is then read and studied by admissions officers. They make their decisions with that.

Sarcasm?? Bc this isn't true at all. One of my LOR is from someone who is on a t20 admissions board right now. She hasn't divulged much and can't make a decision on my app but they look at every one. Also spoke to a t6 former dean (mentioned upthread) who admitted a 149!!!! in her day.

"In her day." Someone on the admissions board from Berkeley told me that's how it is done. Computers handle most of it. Except at Berkeley they actually do review most of the apps.

Lol idk. Why would Berkeley admit 153s and 150s (on LSN)? And reject 170s? I think they might look at apps less closely or have students review them not faculty? But that seem not holistic at all...

ETA: her day was 2007ish - when apps were more competitive

That was 10 years ago lol. Numbers aren't everything. You can have a 170 and have a shit personal statement and bad letters of rec lol.

You deadass just said they use a computer with autodings/autoacceptances and now are saying numbers aren't everything. Trolling? What's good? How do you reconcile those two ideas... like I'm the one saying numbers aren't everything clearly. You counter this with some made up example about computers lmao

[Mr_Chukes]

The way the admissions go is a computer does most of the work. There is a threshold for people who are automatically rejected and accepted based off the number that is generated from the LSAT and GPA score. 1/3 is automatically rejected and 1/3 are accepted. The middle half is then read and studied by admissions officers. They make their decisions with that.

Sarcasm?? Bc this isn't true at all. One of my LOR is from someone who is on a t20 admissions board right now. She hasn't divulged much and can't make a decision on my app but they look at every one. Also spoke to a t6 former dean (mentioned upthread) who admitted a 149!!!! in her day.

"In her day." Someone on the admissions board from Berkeley told me that's how it is done. Computers handle most of it. Except at Berkeley they actually do review most of the apps.

Lol idk. Why would Berkeley admit 153s and 150s (on LSN)? And reject 170s? I think they might look at apps less closely or have students review them not faculty? But that seem not holistic at all...

ETA: her day was 2007ish - when apps were more competitive

That was 10 years ago lol. Numbers aren't everything. You can have a 170 and have a shit personal statement and bad letters of rec lol.

You deadass just said they use a computer with autodings/autoacceptances and now are saying numbers aren't everything. Trolling? What's good? How do you reconcile those two ideas... like I'm the one saying numbers aren't everything clearly. You counter this with some made up example about computers lmao

I said "Except at Berkeley they actually do review most of the apps." He told me that most schools handle them with a computer but at Berkeley they do look at apps because they are trying to build a diverse class of great people.

[Cbear2017]

In Ann Ivey's admissions book she says that schools like to take URM with high GPAs because it balances out a lower LSAT in most cases. Particulary for t1 schools hyperfocused on rankings. Penn seems to only accept 3.8+ and waitlist the rest and Stanford's lawschoolnumber looks the same. I wonder if there's any truth to this; by accepting splitters and reverse splitters they can give less scholarships out and balance their medians, etc...

I will be the exception for Penn then. TLS also said I would be waitlisted and I wasnt...

I would also be an exception for penn...

I think that admissions are more nuanced than anyone gives them credit for.

[Mjvance2]

In Ann Ivey's admissions book she says that schools like to take URM with high GPAs because it balances out a lower LSAT in most cases. Particulary for t1 schools hyperfocused on rankings. Penn seems to only accept 3.8+ and waitlist the rest and Stanford's lawschoolnumber looks the same. I wonder if there's any truth to this; by accepting splitters and reverse splitters they can give less scholarships out and balance their medians, etc...

I will be the exception for Penn then. TLS also said I would be waitlisted and I wasnt...

I think that admissions are more nuanced than anyone gives them credit for.

Not to dispute your point per se, but I think the above theory implicitly assumes URM applicants with LSATs below median, and your LSAT is at Penn's 75th

So is the idea that you need to have a 75th LSAT to get away with a 25th GPA?

. Basically, yes. Ivey kind of goes on this tangent about URMs and states something like if a candidate has a 163 and a 3.9 or a 166 and a 3.0, the school might theoretically take the 163 as they might boost or maintain their median GPA and will be lowering their LSAT either way. So if they can get someone with a 176 and a 3.0, the 163 and 3.9 might "balance" this out. I've seen some people discuss this on splitter/chance me thread.

But I see how it can go both ways. URMs with high LSATs are rare, so schools would want to scoop those up obviously. But I imagine for lower tier 1 schools or even lower t20/t14 schools this GPA theory might be true..

All speculation from TLS and Ivey, but she's also the one who said URMs can get a 5-10 LSAT boost in the admissions process which some people here believe so idk. *And I recommend Iveys book on admissions bc it's really frank about URM acceptances, which can be even more of a black box..

Just adding some more perspective. The 25th, median, and 75th designations are literally just that. They are not averages. So for instance, if a law school had 100 students, there could be 25 students who don't affect those numbers at all. They could all be 120 LAST scorers with 2.0 GPAs and the 25th, median, and 75th numbers don't move at all.

That being said, most schools aren't accepting too many people outside of a reasonable range for the school, but they conceivably could with no repercussion.

So for all those below median or below 25th percentiles don't worry, we all still have a chance!!

[lawschool2017712]

Z

[brinicolec]

Is anyone else still waiting for interview invites from Columbia/Chicago? Complete early November

Chicago's about to WL or reject my ass.... Idk what CLS will decide to do... A WL/reject is probably in my near future from them too.

At this point, this is me looking at my cycle so far:



so yeah... I'm not expecting anything great to happen lol

[S.Picquery]

Is anyone else still waiting for interview invites from Columbia/Chicago? Complete early November

Chicago's about to WL or reject my ass.... Idk what CLS will decide to do... A WL/reject is probably in my near future from them too.

I, too, am waiting for Chicago. Didn't apply to CLS.

[azaleafire]

Is anyone else still waiting for interview invites from Columbia/Chicago? Complete early November

Chicago's about to WL or reject my ass.... Idk what CLS will decide to do... A WL/reject is probably in my near future from them too.

I, too, am waiting for Chicago. Didn't apply to CLS.

I am waiting for Chicago, but last check I was UR 1, since 1/8 and haven't budged. Maybe they are just taking their time...?

[Mr_Chukes]

Is anyone else still waiting for interview invites from Columbia/Chicago? Complete early November

Chicago's about to WL or reject my ass.... Idk what CLS will decide to do... A WL/reject is probably in my near future from them too.

I, too, am waiting for Chicago. Didn't apply to CLS.

I am waiting for Chicago, but last check I was UR 1, since 1/8 and haven't budged. Maybe they are just taking their time...?

I feel the ding ray is coming for me as well. I'm not tripping though. I have other places I'm more interested in.

[20171lhopeful]

Is anyone else still waiting for interview invites from Columbia/Chicago? Complete early November

Chicago's about to WL or reject my ass.... Idk what CLS will decide to do... A WL/reject is probably in my near future from them too.

I, too, am waiting for Chicago. Didn't apply to CLS.

I am waiting for Chicago, but last check I was UR 1, since 1/8 and haven't budged. Maybe they are just taking their time...?

I feel the ding ray is coming for me as well. I'm not tripping though. I have other places I'm more interested in.

Did you go on the cruise yet?

[Mr_Chukes]

Is anyone else still waiting for interview invites from Columbia/Chicago? Complete early November

Chicago's about to WL or reject my ass.... Idk what CLS will decide to do... A WL/reject is probably in my near future from them too.

I, too, am waiting for Chicago. Didn't apply to CLS.

I am waiting for Chicago, but last check I was UR 1, since 1/8 and haven't budged. Maybe they are just taking their time...?

I feel the ding ray is coming for me as well. I'm not tripping though. I have other places I'm more interested in.

Did you go on the cruise yet?

Nope it's going to be in March.

[sfn91]

I got put on reserve for Cornell. First "decision" of the cycle - eek.

[S.Picquery]

I got put on reserve for Cornell. First "decision" of the cycle - eek.

I would not let a weird Cornell decision worry you. They're being wonky this cycle (I really can't think of another way to put it).