URM 2014-2015 Cycle Thread Forum

[jemthey17]

So shout out to Yaaaas2013 for saying we needed more camaraderie in this thread, as it got a lot more active today. Although part of that was the awesome acceptances ITT. Congrats again, everyone!

[Atmosphere]

Alrighty...but I do think that a school like YHSCCN thinks that they want URM candidates who can most easily adapt to their environment and perform. The "impostor syndrome"(the general feeling that we don't belong or that we cheated the system to get there) is real among us URM's in these super-elite institutions and it is possible that adcomms give a little nudge to the URM candidates who have already been through that.

Elite schools want people who look prestigious and who they can make look even more prestigious. They are nothing more than prestige factories. The public requires prestige as a way of discriminating between good lawyers and bad lawyers because the masses are asses.

If you come from an elite undergrad, you are ipso facto more prestigious and have potentially more prestige carrying capacity than someone who went to Big State U. That makes you more desirable to clients/law firms/government agencies/john q public/ and law schools. It hardly needs to be said that there's a relationship between prestige and economic value for these groups.

To me, that's the essence of it.

I...agree, but that's not my quote haha

[03282016]

[Atmosphere]

21 over here too

Hell yeah.

[Skool]

Alrighty...but I do think that a school like YHSCCN thinks that they want URM candidates who can most easily adapt to their environment and perform. The "impostor syndrome"(the general feeling that we don't belong or that we cheated the system to get there) is real among us URM's in these super-elite institutions and it is possible that adcomms give a little nudge to the URM candidates who have already been through that.

Elite schools want people who look prestigious and who they can make look even more prestigious. They are nothing more than prestige factories. The public requires prestige as a way of discriminating between good lawyers and bad lawyers because the masses are asses.

If you come from an elite undergrad, you are ipso facto more prestigious and have potentially more prestige carrying capacity than someone who went to Big State U. That makes you more desirable to clients/law firms/government agencies/john q public/ and law schools. It hardly needs to be said that there's a relationship between prestige and economic value for these groups.

To me, that's the essence of it.

I...agree, but that's not my quote haha

Edit: Apologies to Atmosphere for the misquote!

[cc78]

Alrighty...but I do think that a school like YHSCCN thinks that they want URM candidates who can most easily adapt to their environment and perform. The "impostor syndrome"(the general feeling that we don't belong or that we cheated the system to get there) is real among us URM's in these super-elite institutions and it is possible that adcomms give a little nudge to the URM candidates who have already been through that.

Elite schools want people who look prestigious and who they can make look even more prestigious. They are nothing more than prestige factories. The public requires prestige as a way of discriminating between good lawyers and bad lawyers because the masses are asses.

If you come from an elite undergrad, you are ipso facto more prestigious and have potentially more prestige carrying capacity than someone who went to Big State U. That makes you more desirable to clients/law firms/government agencies/john q public/ and law schools. It hardly needs to be said that there's a relationship between prestige and economic value for these groups.

To me, that's the essence of it.

I...agree, but that's not my quote haha

Aw, don't implicate Atmosphere in my mess . I'm not totally there with you in terms of undergraduate education...someone with a high GPA coming from Columbia with it's famous core curriculum would definitely get a little bump for me over someone who went to Brown where they don't have a core at all (hate math? okay, no math for you!). Not trolling Brown, just giving an example.

Law school presents a better case for your argument to me. The same law is taught in the same classes by professors who all went to the same law schools regardless of where you go within T1 and maybe T2. There's clearly a reason biglaw firms allow you to search their lawyers by schools attended--they see it as a proxy measure of the value of their firm (ooooh, look at how many HLS grads they have!!).

[Tr3]

Would anyone who has done an interview be willing to PM me some info? What was it like? What should I prepare? etc. I'm particularly curious about the reading part of the interview. Please an thank you!

Edit: SEO Interview

[Yaaaas2013]

So shout out to Yaaaas2013 for saying we needed more camaraderie in this thread, as it got a lot more active today. Although part of that was the awesome acceptances ITT. Congrats again, everyone!

*Waves*

But no. I attended one of those fancy HYPS or Williams/Amherst/Swarthmore type schools and I feel incredibly insecure about this application cycle. I did well but those undergrad institutions seem to perpetuate the idea that their grads have a certain advantage bc of the skills which are seemingly unique to those institutions and their campus cultures. I didn't really buy into much but I'm also weary of applying to another top institution bc my undergrad experience was soooo isolating. *shudders*

But yay for conversation!

[heavenonseven]

Anyone know how bad it is to be accepted to a school early decision and then decide to go somewhere else? It says that they'll notify the other schools but what consequence will that have? Will my other schools take back their acceptances?

[Harvette]

Anyone know how bad it is to be accepted to a school early decision and then decide to go somewhere else? It says that they'll notify the other schools but what consequence will that have? Will my other schools take back their acceptances?

ED school will notify other schools that you are in ED and those other schools will drop your app like it is hot.
I am thinking

[twenty]

Anyone know how bad it is to be accepted to a school early decision and then decide to go somewhere else? It says that they'll notify the other schools but what consequence will that have? Will my other schools take back their acceptances?

You'll probably also get in trouble with the bar later on if you manage to get away with it (which no one ever does). This is a really great way to completely sink your law career before it begins. :/

[heavenonseven]

Anyone know how bad it is to be accepted to a school early decision and then decide to go somewhere else? It says that they'll notify the other schools but what consequence will that have? Will my other schools take back their acceptances?

You'll probably also get in trouble with the bar later on if you manage to get away with it (which no one ever does). This is a really great way to completely sink your law career before it begins. :/

Sheesh. Thanks for the warning!

[Harvette]

Anyone know how bad it is to be accepted to a school early decision and then decide to go somewhere else? It says that they'll notify the other schools but what consequence will that have? Will my other schools take back their acceptances?

You'll probably also get in trouble with the bar later on if you manage to get away with it (which no one ever does). This is a really great way to completely sink your law career before it begins. :/

Sheesh. Thanks for the warning!

What options where you exploring?
If u can't answer it is alright.

[AOT]

Well done, folks!

Also...that awkward moment where you FINALLY finish polishing your two and a half-page PS, and then realize Harvard had a two-page limit.

For real.

[AOT]

Congrats on UChicago and I definitely stand by you on doing your research and deciding based on what's right for you. It's so important to love the place where you want to go. It's what allows you to thrive academically and enjoy every minute of your experience. And whatever debt you incur, you can pay off very well with a UChicago degree. Bravo!!!

I agree 100%, Tr3. To those who think it's unfair, I think you might be overestimating its impact in the admissions process. Admissions officers have been clear that the law school application review process is holistic. It considers a number of factors and no one factor is sufficient to determine whether you're admitted, denied, or waitlisted. So while going to a 'prestigious' UG school might be considered one factor in the process, it'll never be the end-all-be-all or the deciding factor. I think the amazing representation of different undergraduate institutions at T14 law schools is highly indicative of this.

Thanks! I really do love Chicago as a city as well, and right now it's where I'd like to practice. I'm not just going to law school for the sake of going to law school - Chicago has the kind of feel and academic setting that I was looking for, and I've had my sights set on it for a while because of this. I didn't really want to risk waiting for RD because my numbers were only around 25th, even as URM, even as NA. I might be playing the numbers less intensely - and as a result less intelligently depending on who you ask - but it's not just about money for me, and if I'm going to spend a lot of time somewhere I do want to like it. I also have friends in the area, and since getting accepted all my parents' friends with connections are offering to hook me up, which is cool. It'll work out.

I think you're right about the relationship between the reputation for the intensity of the schools and the boost they offer as a result. It's a "you went to X so we know Y about you" thing, even when other students can also have Y. In my Chicago interview, my interviewer mentioned the same kinds of qualities that my professors had written about in my LoRs (do they do this frequently, share those details?) and liked that a lot. So even if you don't go to one of those schools, you can still show that you have the skills and attributes they're looking for.

I think it sounds like you've thought this through pretty well. Prevailing wisdom on TLS is kind of depressing tbh. Half of it tells you just to chase money and prestige, and the other half is complaining about how awful and soul-sucking law school and lawyering is. Like no shit - if the aim has only ever been $ I can't imagine why they might hate their lives.

Chicago's law and philosophy program is what got me as well. The approach they have there sounds right up my ally and they have some really awesome law and philosophy faculty. Talking of which though, my interview was kinda weird. I didn't get the impression that she had read my application or cared about me at all. I had expected it to be way more conversational, but I remember it being v question and answer. Not sure how to feel about that.

[03282016]

[AOT]

I think it sounds like you've thought this through pretty well. Prevailing wisdom on TLS is kind of depressing tbh. Half of it tells you just to chase money and prestige, and the other half is complaining about how awful and soul-sucking law school and lawyering is. Like no shit - if the aim has only ever been $ I can't imagine why they might hate their lives.

Chicago's law and philosophy program is what got me as well. The approach they have there sounds right up my ally and they have some really awesome law and philosophy faculty. Talking of which though, my interview was kinda weird. I didn't get the impression that she had read my application or cared about me at all. I had expected it to be way more conversational, but I remember it being v question and answer. Not sure how to feel about that.

Who was your interviewer? Mine was Raegan Butler and she was very friendly + the interview went really well. My rule for interviews is to play it somewhat like a date - both parties should have relative interest in each others, and you can work phrasing and nonverbals in similar ways to elicit certain responses. I also had really strong softs, though, as mentioned previously, and I was an ED applicant. It may vary for all kinds of reasons and I wouldn't stress too hard over it - if only because it won't help pragmatically.

pm'd

[LoganCouture]

I think it sounds like you've thought this through pretty well. Prevailing wisdom on TLS is kind of depressing tbh. Half of it tells you just to chase money and prestige, and the other half is complaining about how awful and soul-sucking law school and lawyering is. Like no shit - if the aim has only ever been $ I can't imagine why they might hate their lives.

Chicago's law and philosophy program is what got me as well. The approach they have there sounds right up my ally and they have some really awesome law and philosophy faculty. Talking of which though, my interview was kinda weird. I didn't get the impression that she had read my application or cared about me at all. I had expected it to be way more conversational, but I remember it being v question and answer. Not sure how to feel about that.

Who was your interviewer? Mine was Raegan Butler and she was very friendly + the interview went really well. My rule for interviews is to play it somewhat like a date - both parties should have relative interest in each others, and you can work phrasing and nonverbals in similar ways to elicit certain responses. I also had really strong softs, though, as mentioned previously, and I was an ED applicant. It may vary for all kinds of reasons and I wouldn't stress too hard over it - if only because it won't help pragmatically.

pm'd

I got the interview request within a week of my app going under review and I also got the feeling she hadn't read it at all. It was super not-conversational at all, much more like alloverthat's experience.

[03282016]

[Tr3]

I think it sounds like you've thought this through pretty well. Prevailing wisdom on TLS is kind of depressing tbh. Half of it tells you just to chase money and prestige, and the other half is complaining about how awful and soul-sucking law school and lawyering is. Like no shit - if the aim has only ever been $ I can't imagine why they might hate their lives.

Chicago's law and philosophy program is what got me as well. The approach they have there sounds right up my ally and they have some really awesome law and philosophy faculty. Talking of which though, my interview was kinda weird. I didn't get the impression that she had read my application or cared about me at all. I had expected it to be way more conversational, but I remember it being v question and answer. Not sure how to feel about that.

Who was your interviewer? Mine was Raegan Butler and she was very friendly + the interview went really well. My rule for interviews is to play it somewhat like a date - both parties should have relative interest in each others, and you can work phrasing and nonverbals in similar ways to elicit certain responses. I also had really strong softs, though, as mentioned previously, and I was an ED applicant. It may vary for all kinds of reasons and I wouldn't stress too hard over it - if only because it won't help pragmatically.

pm'd

I got the interview request within a week of my app going under review and I also got the feeling she hadn't read it at all. It was super not-conversational at all, much more like alloverthat's experience.

Yeah ditto.

[jw316]

Sorry to hear that about the Chi interviews. That's...weird to the say the least.

Has anyone who took December gotten fee waivers via CRS today? I got some yesterday (via CRS, haven't solicited any at all) but still waiting for Duke, Cornell, UT and some others. Trying to get apps out this week if possible but yeah...those fees ($$$)

[90convoy]

uva interview invite...is this normal?

[AOT]

uva interview invite...is this normal?

Yep. I think they interview a fair amount

[LoganCouture]

uva interview invite...is this normal?

Yep. I think they interview a fair amount

Interview means they're ready to accept you I think. Some people have gotten the offer mid-interview. At any rate, prepare a solid answer to Why UVA and hopefully you'll have good news to share with us soon

[jemthey17]

uva interview invite...is this normal?

Congrats, that's good!

Love these schools getting right back into it right after the holiday!