URM 2013-2014 Cycle Thread Forum

[AAJD2B]

We should all agree to come back three years from now to see where all this debt got us.

Slaving away in law firms and feeling "stuck".

Most of the associates I knew bounced after three years. One black male I know left after 5 years as soon as the debt was paid off. He is now in-house with half the pay.

Each and every one of us may have different goals, but I just don't think poor folks should be asked to take out more professional school debt to be employed in an oversaturated market just to be one step closer to living that American Dream. What Dream are poor folks living if your net worth is still in the negative on the basis of educational debt??? What Dream is being lived if you gotta slave just like the non-T14 colleague with no debt who, unlike you, has the option to leave BIGLAW altogether??

Maybe I enter law school with a different perspective given what I have seen firsthand but man, it makes no sense some times.

Either way, folks with do what is best for them, even if it cost them financially and otherwise.

I think you have a refreshing point of view, contrary to the hegemonic voice hear on TLS. My thing, I don't care too much about BigLaw. However, I'm a little more ambitious in the political sense that I really want to lawyer in highly competitive government/PI positions, or go into politics. So I think I have a slightly different but similar problem in when (if they ever do) do the connections and prestige of the T-14 justify assuming greater debt, especially when you know you won't be making that much money (though they say LARP plans are supposed to mitigate this)?

Washington DC politics or more local? Isn't going to a more localized law school considered the better option if you wish to take the local politics route?

I know for some LRAPs, the debt is forgiven after 10 years of service. You just can't work for a certain amount of money.

I hope you land Yale. Their repayment program is considered the best.

[mt2165]

We should all agree to come back three years from now to see where all this debt got us.

Slaving away in law firms and feeling "stuck".

Most of the associates I knew bounced after three years. One black male I know left after 5 years as soon as the debt was paid off. He is now in-house with half the pay.

Each and every one of us may have different goals, but I just don't think poor folks should be asked to take out more professional school debt to be employed in an oversaturated market just to be one step closer to living that American Dream. What Dream are poor folks living if your net worth is still in the negative on the basis of educational debt??? What Dream is being lived if you gotta slave just like the non-T14 colleague with no debt who, unlike you, has the option to leave BIGLAW altogether??

Maybe I enter law school with a different perspective given what I have seen firsthand but man, it makes no sense some times.

Either way, folks with do what is best for them, even if it cost them financially and otherwise.

I think you have a refreshing point of view, contrary to the hegemonic voice hear on TLS. My thing, I don't care too much about BigLaw. However, I'm a little more ambitious in the political sense that I really want to lawyer in highly competitive government/PI positions, or go into politics. So I think I have a slightly different but similar problem in when (if they ever do) do the connections and prestige of the T-14 justify assuming greater debt, especially when you know you won't be making that much money (though they say LARP plans are supposed to mitigate this)?

Washington DC politics or more local? Isn't going to a more localized law school considered the better option if you wish to take the local politics route?

I know for some LRAPs, the debt is forgiven after 10 years of service. You just can't work for a certain amount of money.

I hope you land Yale. Their repayment program is considered the best.

Haha well I won't considering I didn't even apply. And I was thinking more national level, DOJ, USAO, UN, IMF/WB, Capitol Hill, etc. I think you're definitely right about the local govt/politics.

[toshiroh]

I just think everyone should have a Plan B,C, and D. No one is a lock for big law... what if you strike out altogether. Then what?

[mandyjay11]

I just think everyone should have a Plan B,C, and D. No one is a lock for big law... what if you strike out altogether. Then what?

Look at what my boo says... haha

JK I totally get what you are saying. We all need a low key fall-back.

[ThePiedPiper]

Apple Lover(s) must check this out
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uLXEiMIiF5 ... LXEiMIiF5E

Haha. That's cute. I'll try it the next time I buy some.


Has anyone seen the UCLA Law 33 Video?

I actually just watched the video. I really find it quite distrubing that some of these top schools dont actually do more to attract different minority groups and give a great representation at their institutions. In all honesty I believe that is why my cycle is going the way it is. People in the majority are so afraid to see the truth. To see that distroted reflection of themselves. And when you tell them about themselves they run from it or condemn you as an extremist. It is really sad that you cannot challenge people. Its almost like they want you to assimilate and fit a particular mold of what they want to shape you in.

I lurked for a min, but this topic has brought me out of the weeds. First, let me say congratulations to everyone on their acceptances thus far and the acceptances that will come soon. I’m a non-trad and most here seem to be in their early/mid 20’s. So let me also say that I am VERY PROUD to see you all accomplishing what you have set out to accomplish and the positive reinforcement you give to each other. That is some good ish! Now, maybe I come with a different perspective based on my advanced stage in life, so take or leave what I say and know that I offer what I say with humility...

Pied, I feel you. But understand, speaking your truth and expecting receptive ears might not correlate. Of course power, whatever form it may take, wants you to fit a mold. The mold of “I don’t want no trouble”. How you speak truth can impact how it’s heard or not heard. I don’t know how you framed your PS in terms of tone. I appreciate you being yourself in whatever way you presented it. But that can have its consequences. Sometimes a velvet glove over a steel hand will get one farther along. Then one can take that glove off and proceed to bruise ‘em up.

I watched the video as well. I understand the feeling shared by the 33. I went to grad school many years ago, was one of 5 black students in my entering class of 70. So I get the feeling of having to be spokesman for everybody or wanting to do well for everybody who might want to come after me. What I would tell that younger version of myself is to take off the yoke. Learning and accomplishing one’s goal is challenging enough without adding pressure.

Yes, people who have had little interaction with URM’s of whatever ethnic background will look to you for an opinion. That’s not a negative thing in and of itself. It’s better someone asks for a take than to sit there and make up things in their heads or fail to confront their assumptions. That being said, we’re under no obligation to provide this at every turn. Do so at your discretion, not theirs. Yes, there are some people who will catch an attitude by the very presence of a URM for whatever reason they might have. No matter how one performs there will always be these types of people with these types of attitudes. Stay focused.

Law school is a professional school. One is their to learn the law, apply the law and earn a JD en route to achieving whatever goal that JD will help to obtain. How the next person feels about the presence of a URM is irrelevant. They do not matter. What matters is that one works hard, works smart and accomplishes whatever goal was set. That is the focus. If, en route to that, one can change an attitude or change a system even better. But do not allow the attitude of others or pressure one might place on themselves to take one off track.

If one wants to practice in Southern Cali then UCLA is an option based on its rep in those legal circles. UCLA in general has issues that I do not like. What’s good is that they are known. Because we haven’t heard of issues like these at other institutions does not mean they don’t exist. They might not have come to the fore YET or simply haven’t been spoken about. My grad school was in one of the T14 and we could have made that same video back when. I get the negative feelings about UCLA, but if UCLA is an option that can help one to achieve a goal (based on $$$ they give in comparison to another school or its proximity to a desired practice area) then USE them like they use whatever URM’s who attend to proclaim their “diversity”. It is a transaction. Get yours. At the same time, If there is a better option for one’s goal, based on those factors I mentioned, then by all means forget UCLA. Whatever one chooses to do make sure you choose it based on your desires and goals not because of the attitudes of others who are, ultimately, irrelevant to those things.

Thank you P-Haze for your input I really appreciate it. I do agree with everything you stated. You do make valid points. However, I cannot see myself censoring myself for anyone. Its not my job to manage the masses insecurities on what reality is truly like for the Black Man and Black Woman. Sometimes the truth has to hurt in order for it to hit home. I just told them how our society and they view us as URM Men and Women. In all honesty I am not mad if I don't get accepted for speaking the truth. Really its a blessing for me because it means they don't deserve someone like me at their institution. And I don't want to be anywhere I am not truly wanted. I rather be accepted at an institution that is lower ranked and values the truth and doesn't run from it. Then to be somewhere fake where people are smiling in my face and really don't want me there. I believe anyone can make an impact regardless of their situation or school. They just have to make the most out of the opportunity and work. Also welcome to the thread. Its better to be active than to lurk

[AAJD2B]

I just think everyone should have a Plan B,C, and D. No one is a lock for big law... what if you strike out altogether. Then what?

Perfect timing:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 4&t=224946

[AAJD2B]

Haha well I won't considering I didn't even apply. And I was thinking more national level, DOJ, USAO, UN, IMF/WB, Capitol Hill, etc. I think you're definitely right about the local govt/politics.

Yes, then HYSCCN is your best bet. Perhaps even UVA?? I would definitely inquire on the student population that went on to your desired professions during your ASW visits. If you're gonna have to spend, it better be worth it.

[P-Haze]

Thank you P-Haze for your input I really appreciate it. I do agree with everything you stated. You do make valid points. However, I cannot see myself censoring myself for anyone. Its not my job to manage the masses insecurities on what reality is truly like for the Black Man and Black Woman. Sometimes the truth has to hurt in order for it to hit home. I just told them how our society and they view us as URM Men and Women. In all honesty I am not mad if I don't get accepted for speaking the truth. Really its a blessing for me because it means they don't deserve someone like me at their institution. And I don't want to be anywhere I am not truly wanted. I rather be accepted at an institution that is lower ranked and values the truth and doesn't run from it. Then to be somewhere fake where people are smiling in my face and really don't want me there. I believe anyone can make an impact regardless of their situation or school. They just have to make the most out of the opportunity and work. Also welcome to the thread. Its better to be active than to lurk [/quote]

Thank you. I will lurk less. Do what you’re led to do. Respect to you, main man.

[Black_Swan]

I always think, unless one is publishing something such as an article or a book, putting controversial ideas out there for people to read when they have no or little options to ask for clarifications, criticize your opinions or voice their own is bad judgement. A PS or DS is not the place to do this.

[Cocoblues]

I always think, unless one is publishing something such as an article or a book, putting controversial ideas out there for people to read when they have no or little options to ask for clarifications, criticize your opinions or voice their own is bad judgement. A PS or DS is not the place to do this.

I especially agree with the bolded part. People who may otherwise agree with or even support the ideas put forth may be turned off by the blanket condemnation of a system/institution. Even when radical transformation is warranted, there is a way to promote and advance change without appearing like "the enemy" or throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

[okaygo]

I always think, unless one is publishing something such as an article or a book, putting controversial ideas out there for people to read when they have no or little options to ask for clarifications, criticize your opinions or voice their own is bad judgement. A PS or DS is not the place to do this.

Something about this doesn't sit well with me. I think it's the assumption that everyone has the same intentions or reasoning as you. Maybe someone wouldnt want to attend a school that was uncomfortable with their beliefs. A PS could be the perfect place to express that.

It's not something I would personally do, but I'm also more quietly militant than overtly defiant. But I can still see the justification behind sending a personal or diversity statement of that sort, as long as one is cognizant of the risk.

[ThePiedPiper]

I always think, unless one is publishing something such as an article or a book, putting controversial ideas out there for people to read when they have no or little options to ask for clarifications, criticize your opinions or voice their own is bad judgement. A PS or DS is not the place to do this.

Something about this doesn't sit well with me. I think it's the assumption that everyone has the same intentions or reasoning as you. Maybe someone wouldnt want to attend a school that was uncomfortable with their beliefs. A PS could be the perfect place to express that.

It's not something I would personally do, but I'm also more quietly militant than overtly defiant. But I can still see the justification behind sending a personal or diversity statement of that sort, as long as one is cognizant of the risk.

I knew of the potential risk. But what is life without a challenge. I mean this whole profession all of us are trying to break into is risky. I realized I took the chance but I am happy I did. It shows me that someone wants me for me and just not a diversity fill in my opinion. Also I disagree that it was bad judgement.

[Black_Swan]

I always think, unless one is publishing something such as an article or a book, putting controversial ideas out there for people to read when they have no or little options to ask for clarifications, criticize your opinions or voice their own is bad judgement. A PS or DS is not the place to do this.

Something about this doesn't sit well with me. I think it's the assumption that everyone has the same intentions or reasoning as you. Maybe someone wouldnt want to attend a school that was uncomfortable with their beliefs. A PS could be the perfect place to express that.

It's not something I would personally do, but I'm also more quietly militant than overtly defiant. But I can still see the justification behind sending a personal or diversity statement of that sort, as long as one is cognizant of the risk.

It is not necessarily about people not being comfortable about your beliefs. The way you choose to express your ideas also speaks for your maturity. OP can do as he pleases. But he is just shooting himself in the foot, just as many non urms also do.

[Black_Swan]

I always think, unless one is publishing something such as an article or a book, putting controversial ideas out there for people to read when they have no or little options to ask for clarifications, criticize your opinions or voice their own is bad judgement. A PS or DS is not the place to do this.

Something about this doesn't sit well with me. I think it's the assumption that everyone has the same intentions or reasoning as you. Maybe someone wouldnt want to attend a school that was uncomfortable with their beliefs. A PS could be the perfect place to express that.

It's not something I would personally do, but I'm also more quietly militant than overtly defiant. But I can still see the justification behind sending a personal or diversity statement of that sort, as long as one is cognizant of the risk.

I knew of the potential risk. But what is life without a challenge. I mean this whole profession all of us are trying to break into is risky. I realized I took the chance but I am happy I did. It shows me that someone wants me for me and just not a diversity fill in my opinion. Also I disagree that it was bad judgement.

Seriously? A challenge?
A challenge is when you are boiling inside but you have the maturity, self-control and awareness to express your ideas without shooting yourself in the foot.
I am curious how old you are (not being cynical, just genuinely curious)

[ThePiedPiper]

Black Swan I am 26. And I didn't say anything in my PS that people on the committee or society doesn't already say or think. That at all is not fiction its a fact. So basically you are claiming since I am not an established author I should not speak on whats true. So I guess you give a free pass to the UCLA Law Professor who was publishing articles about URMs not being smart enough to cut it. I am paraphrasing what he said. But he made lots of students particularly URMs uncomfortable to the point they had to remove them from his section. So since I am not "established" or "published" I cannot write what I said. I didn't write anything other URMs weren't feeling.

[AAJD2B]

I was here.

[Black_Swan]

Black Swan I am 26. And I didn't say anything in my PS that people on the committee or society doesn't already say or think. That at all is not fiction its a fact. So basically you are claiming since I am not an established author I should not speak on whats true. So I guess you give a free pass to the UCLA Law Professor who was publishing articles about URMs not being smart enough to cut it. I am paraphrasing what he said. But he made lots of students particularly URMs uncomfortable to the point they had to remove them from his section. So since I am "established" or "published" write what I said. I didn't write anything other URMs weren't feeling.

I think you don't get it. And I have no interest in getting into the type of debate the poster after you is hinting at. I wish u good luck with your cycle. Fingers crossed!

[ThePiedPiper]

Black Swan I am 26. And I didn't say anything in my PS that people on the committee or society doesn't already say or think. That at all is not fiction its a fact. So basically you are claiming since I am not an established author I should not speak on whats true. So I guess you give a free pass to the UCLA Law Professor who was publishing articles about URMs not being smart enough to cut it. I am paraphrasing what he said. But he made lots of students particularly URMs uncomfortable to the point they had to remove them from his section. So since I am "established" or "published" write what I said. I didn't write anything other URMs weren't feeling.

I think you don't get it. And I have no interest in getting into the type of debate the poster after you is hinting at. I wish u good luck with your cycle. Fingers crossed!

I was not trying to debate with you. I was simply defending my reasons for my PS. But thank you. I appreciated your input. Good luck to you as well.

[BobMoses]

In at Duke, UVA, and I finally received my SEO interview invite. It has been a good week

[californiauser]

In at Duke, UVA, and I finally received my SEO interview invite. It has been a good week

congrats. when did you apply to SEO?

[BobMoses]

In at Duke, UVA, and I finally received my SEO interview invite. It has been a good week

congrats. when did you apply to SEO?

Thanks, late December

[kenwash]

In at Duke, UVA, and I finally received my SEO interview invite. It has been a good week

Congrats!!

[mandyjay11]

In at Duke, UVA, and I finally received my SEO interview invite. It has been a good week

Congrats!!

+1

[okaygo]

In at Duke, UVA, and I finally received my SEO interview invite. It has been a good week

Congrats! Someone had a good day.

[mt2165]

Ugh I really wish I applied earlier.....