Why are there so few blacks in corporate law? Forum

[lisjjen]

Just accept what I am telling you, be careful about the way you word things and keep it moving... My criticism was extremely fair.

Here's where I get off the train, so listen up.

You do not pay me, you do not teach me, you are not related to me. Ergo, you do not get to talk to me like that.

[TrialLawyer16]

Again. I am a Black guy.

That doesn't excuse you from using careful wording. Your use of the word "understand" implies something different from what you were trying to convey (I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here). For many reasons blacks lack competitive access, and blacks lack competitive resources. On this we can all agree. But to say someone "doesn't understand" something implies that he/she is somehow at fault...that he/she bears the responsibility for fixing the problem. That is not the case.

Your claim that "they don't understand" makes you sound like a white guy pretending to be black. No black guy I know would imply that black people as a group "don't understand" something. We know that such wording puts the blame on blacks instead of spreading it around as appropriate.

FYI...if you aren't a longtime member of TLS, you may want to check my record. I am not a fun person battle with. My mouth, and keystrokes are like Uzis. Just accept what I am telling you, be careful about the way you word things and keep it moving. Like many other blacks, I take offense to ANYONE saying that blacks as a group "don't understand" something. My criticism was extremely fair.

Dude... relax. Everyone knows what he meant. And secondly (since you want to be a stickler) you're actually very wrong. As you can clearly see the 2nd definition for understand posted above is "to be thoroughly familiar with". Therefore, to modify Lissjen's post

"That is, even if Blacks and Hispanics have high ambitions, they (are not thoroughly familiar with) how to get to their end goal."

I can't believe I had to clarify this, but you're really diverting energy from the actual topic of this thread. I have no idea what your deal is right now, but you need to relax.

[Napt]

u r dumb

Lol. Frustrated already? Only a dumb person would write that. You have 106 posts, which makes you a neophyte compared to me. You are not even in my league. Take your 150 LSAT and go back to the junkyard.

u mad little breh?

[vanwinkle]

And that is exactly my point: to say that someone is likely to lack knowledge is quite different. I stand firmly behind my post, which shows that I very clearly interpreted what was actually written. The poster may have "meant" something else, but it isn't what he actually "wrote". The way I responded shows that I gave the poster the benefit of the doubt. I even stated that the post was good. He just needs to be careful about wording.

Many people would interpret his post to be a commentary on the innate capabilities of blacks.

No they wouldn't. To "not understand" something is to lack the knowledge necessary to understand it. It says nothing about innate ability or genetic racial disparity. The only person here reading it that way is you; everyone else understood what he said and how I re-conveyed it are the same thing.

Irony: You're shitting up an otherwise decent thread because you fail to understand the meaning of the word "understand". Plz to stop kind sir.

[Excellent117]

u r dumb

Lol. Frustrated already? Only a dumb person would write that. You have 106 posts, which makes you a neophyte compared to me. You are not even in my league. Take your 150 LSAT and go back to the junkyard.

So YOU'RE the guy that everyone bases their "all law students are tools" conclusions on! It all makes sense now.

[Ehudbarak15]

I think your post is ok, but be careful when using the word "understand". It implies that, even if blacks had someone to mentor them, they would not have the ability to execute. That's just wrong. Look at the successes of rap stars and other entertainers, former small businessmen, and professional athletes like Magic Johnson. Many of them have been mistaken for idiots at some point because they were not as well-versed in standard English vernacular as are/were their non-black counterparts. Yet they run multimillion-dollar empires, with long-term, sustainable growth. They run multimedia empires, they are vertically and horizontally integrated and they show no signs of going broke.

Oprah, Jay-Z, Diddy, Russell Simmons (and his brother Rev. Run), Kimora Lee Simmons, Robert Johnson, Master-P, Tyra Banks, etc. Oprah is a billionaire, and each of the others could very well be. Jay-Z and Beyonce already have a combined estimated net worth of over $800M. Master-P's net worth was estimated at over $500M eight years ago. Most importantly, they are providing to the public goods and services (credit cards, clothing, books, movies, music, etc.) that are in high demand.

This strongly suggests that if blacks are given a chance and put in the work, they can succeed as well as anyone else. Jerry Buss treated Magic like a son, and that's why Magic is an even better businessman than he was a basketball player. Tommy Hilfiger and Clive Davis took Russell Simmons and Diddy under their wings, which is why they succeeded in fashion. If given the right guidance, anyone with drive and a little bit of talent can be rich and successful in America. That's why I love this country.

So, because a handful of black people became highly wealthy, that proves any black person can be successful. Brilliant logic. I think you are ignoring the sad reality that there do exist people, black and white, who are not talented or who cannot make it big --- at least, not in corporate law, or basketball, or anything.

[PARTY]

I think your post is ok, but be careful when using the word "understand". It implies that, even if blacks had someone to mentor them, they would not have the ability to execute. That's just wrong. Look at the successes of rap stars and other entertainers, former small businessmen, and professional athletes like Magic Johnson. Many of them have been mistaken for idiots at some point because they were not as well-versed in standard English vernacular as are/were their non-black counterparts. Yet they run multimillion-dollar empires, with long-term, sustainable growth. They run multimedia empires, they are vertically and horizontally integrated and they show no signs of going broke.

Oprah, Jay-Z, Diddy, Russell Simmons (and his brother Rev. Run), Kimora Lee Simmons, Robert Johnson, Master-P, Tyra Banks, etc. Oprah is a billionaire, and each of the others could very well be. Jay-Z and Beyonce already have a combined estimated net worth of over $800M. Master-P's net worth was estimated at over $500M eight years ago. Most importantly, they are providing to the public goods and services (credit cards, clothing, books, movies, music, etc.) that are in high demand.

This strongly suggests that if blacks are given a chance and put in the work, they can succeed as well as anyone else. Jerry Buss treated Magic like a son, and that's why Magic is an even better businessman than he was a basketball player. Tommy Hilfiger and Clive Davis took Russell Simmons and Diddy under their wings, which is why they succeeded in fashion. If given the right guidance, anyone with drive and a little bit of talent can be rich and successful in America. That's why I love this country.

So, because a handful of black people became highly wealthy, that proves any black person can be successful. Brilliant logic. I think you are ignoring the sad reality that there do exist people, black and white, who are not talented or who cannot make it big --- at least, not in corporate law, or basketball, or anything.

brilliant one post account.

[Ehudbarak15]

Oh, I forgot. This is the Internet. Better to have 5000 posts and no life than to be reasonable. Oprah is a model for us all. The only thing keeping us down is the man. Carry on.

[lisjjen]

Oh, I forgot. This is the Internet. Better to have 5000 posts and no life than to be reasonable. Oprah is a model for us all. The only thing keeping us down is the man. Carry on.

Here comes the shitshow I formerly predicted. We're not talking about the average population. There is a silent assumption of elitism at a website that is literally called "top-law-schools.com."

Here's the thing pimp. Everybody is good at different things. Can you rebuild the engine on a 1969 Dodge Coronet? No. Everybody is great at different things. People who go to a Top 20 law school are better at interpreting abstract characters better known as letters and numbers. More importantly, they are better at dissecting the significance of those abstract characters. Your argument is a non-sequiter because we aren't talking about the population in general. We're talking about 1-2% of them.

The punchline is, we're asking why that 1-2% has a disproportionately low number of Black folks in it. As this thread shows, people are intent on going off topic.

It has gone woefully out of fashion to explicitly say that Black people (and Latinos, Native Americans, Eskimos, whoever) are genetically incapable of fitting in that small sliver. But not only is it unpopular, it's false (read Guns, Germs, and Steel). cf the study in the Economist that shows that infants who haven't been released from the hospital show equal signs of intelligence regardless of race.

This thread is asking what happens between coming out of your Mom's vagina and being the named partner of a Vault 100 firm.

ETA: no disrespect to your mom's vagina. I'm sure she's a nice lady, and vaginas are a wonderful thing in general.

[Ehudbarak15]

Can you link that study? I am not familiar with it. Obviously no one can give a definitive answer to this question. There are many different academic theories that are more complex than this thread can handle, and people are clearly emotional on these boards, so reasoned discussion is hard. I suspect black people are underrepresented in corp law for the same reason they are underrepresented in colleges and overrepresented in prisons. No one can be more specific than that. It's a very complex question.

[TatNurner]

Domino, domino
Only spot a few blacks the higher I go
What’s up to Will? Shout out to O
That ain’t enough.. we gonna need a million more
"Kick in the door" Biggie flow
I’m all dressed up with nowhere to go

[bigboi403]

I agree. I am black myself, and most of my friends, which are black, have goals but none pertain too being a professional. Out of all the black people i know, and i know a lot, maybe 2 or 3 have said they would like to have a professional job. I think black people think the only way to make money is to make it big or play sports, which i used to think, until about 10 or 11th grade.

[BruceWayne]

agree. I am black myself, and most of my friends, which are black, have goals but none pertain too being a professional. O

Then you have a VERY limited social circle. In essentially any major U.S city (although admittedly probably less so on the west coast) there is a reasonably sized Black professional culture. I'm not saying it comes anywhere near the size of those cities' White professionals, but it's enough for you to notice if you care to look. And if you live in Atlanta or DC you'd have to be blind and deaf not to notice Black professionals.

[Nova]

"Additionally, research from the Law School Admissions Council (LSAC) indicates that since 2001, only 7 percent of U.S. law students are Black, compared with 70 percent of law schools enrolling white students."

http://diversityinc.com/diversity-in-ed ... p-remains/

Its just numbers. This applys to all URMS. There are less URMs in the position to become a corporate attorneys. It starts early, in poor grade schools...

[Tom Joad]

I agree. I am black myself, and most of my friends, which are black, have goals but none pertain too being a professional. Out of all the black people i know, and i know a lot, maybe 2 or 3 have said they would like to have a professional job. I think black people think the only way to make money is to make it big or play sports, which i used to think, until about 10 or 11th grade.

I was so confused by this post, then I realized it wasn't InGoodFaith's.

[Ludo!]

I agree. I am black myself, and most of my friends, which are black, have goals but none pertain too being a professional. Out of all the black people i know, and i know a lot, maybe 2 or 3 have said they would like to have a professional job. I think black people think the only way to make money is to make it big or play sports, which i used to think, until about 10 or 11th grade.

I was so confused by this post, then I realized it wasn't InGoodFaith's.

Oh shit. Same. I just thought he was trolling

[lisjjen]

I agree. I am black myself, and most of my friends, which are black, have goals but none pertain too being a professional. Out of all the black people i know, and i know a lot, maybe 2 or 3 have said they would like to have a professional job. I think black people think the only way to make money is to make it big or play sports, which i used to think, until about 10 or 11th grade.

I was so confused by this post, then I realized it wasn't InGoodFaith's.

Oh shit. Same. I just thought he was trolling

Same. The avatar messed me up.

[jd20132013]

My mouth, and keystrokes are like Uzis.

i, wait, what?

[fingerscrossedxx]

I agree. I am black myself, and most of my friends, which are black, have goals but none pertain too being a professional. Out of all the black people i know, and i know a lot, maybe 2 or 3 have said they would like to have a professional job. I think black people think the only way to make money is to make it big or play sports, which i used to think, until about 10 or 11th grade.

I was so confused by this post, then I realized it wasn't InGoodFaith's.

Oh shit. Same. I just thought he was trolling

Same. The avatar messed me up.

Haha, only when I saw this did I go up and look at the name, I too was trolled.

[TurtlesAllTheWayDown]

My mouth, and keystrokes are like Uzis.

I actually agree with this statement.
Your punctuation is scattered and indiscriminate. You make arguments with Uzi-like precision.

[20121109]

Your claim that "they don't understand" makes you sound like a white guy pretending to be black. No black guy I know would imply that black people as a group "don't understand" something. We know that such wording puts the blame on blacks instead of spreading it around as appropriate.

FYI...if you aren't a longtime member of TLS, you may want to check my record. I am not a fun person battle with. My mouth, and keystrokes are like Uzis. Just accept what I am telling you

You know, I honestly have to think you're legit trolling when you say things like this.

[roaringeagle]

agree. I am black myself, and most of my friends, which are black, have goals but none pertain too being a professional. O

Then you have a VERY limited social circle. In essentially any major U.S city (although admittedly probably less so on the west coast) there is a reasonably sized Black professional culture. I'm not saying it comes anywhere near the size of those cities' White professionals, but it's enough for you to notice if you care to look. And if you live in Atlanta or DC you'd have to be blind and deaf not to notice Black professionals.

Maybe my boy bigboi403 is from a bad neighborhood or a geographical place where black people do not view a higher profession as a life goal. I live in a DC suburb and most of my neighbors are black professionals. Cultural difficulties can really rip down black people though. I know a smart kid from GW that got kicked out for dealing drugs. Another guy just let alcohol take over his life. Latinos have a similar problems with hard drugs and alcohol. My very good friend Antonio who is Latino takes uppers then downs it with a shitload of alcohol. I have picked him up off the floor at 2-3am many times I feel that Antonio is very highly intelligent and just feels stuck where he is in life. He copes with hard drugs and alcohol. It hurts me to see my friends-these are all nice people, especially Antonio-mess up their lives.

I'm not even going to get into the discrimination blacks and Latinos face. Or the fact that plenty of white people are fucked up. I will just say that there needs to be greater support on all levels for the underprivileged, especially those who are discriminated against because of their race or immigrant status.

[anitadonielle]

Im black and the area of law that I really want to practice it either corporate or tax. Are you all saying that this would not be a good field because I am black or because it is just a tough industry? I went to what people would call a bad high school yet I went to college wit 15 credit hours and able to be apart of the honors program. My mother didnt go to college but she taught me to always read and know numbers and from that I could read how to do what I needed to do for college. I think the same concept can apply with trying to be in corporate law or am I wrong?

[ajaxconstructions]

Basketball.

[Julio_El_Chavo]

If you're not a white male ex-frat bro, you might as well stay out of corporate law. HTH