URM 2015-2016 Cycle Thread Forum

jnwa · Post by **jnwa** » Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:18 am

AshburtonGrove wrote:Had my interview with Northwestern yesterday. It was super relaxed and has got me pretty excited about that school. Still agonizing over getting an interview request (UVA, JS1, etc.), especially since I applied to most schools a month ago

Is there a consensus on getting into NW without work experience. I just read an interview and the NW guy basically said they exclusively take applicants with post undergrad WE. Im gunna do the interview but is there no chance as a k-jd?

ThePiedPiper · Post by **ThePiedPiper** » Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:12 am

jnwa wrote:
AshburtonGrove wrote:Had my interview with Northwestern yesterday. It was super relaxed and has got me pretty excited about that school. Still agonizing over getting an interview request (UVA, JS1, etc.), especially since I applied to most schools a month ago
Is there a consensus on getting into NW without work experience. I just read an interview and the NW guy basically said they exclusively take applicants with post undergrad WE. Im gunna do the interview but is there no chance as a k-jd?

I wouldn't say there is no chance...When I first applied for the Fall 2013 cycle before I decided on going to grad school first a couple of URM who applied to Northwestern were accepted with little or no work experience. However, they did have competitive numbers as well. Its my belief an applicant will be fine as long as their competitive and put your best foot fwd. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Though having the work experience doesn't hurt either.

mindatwork · Post by **mindatwork** » Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:49 pm

Submitted all my apps last night. All my stress over finishing my essays and waiting for rec letters has dovetailed into anxiety regarding admission decisions. Oh well! Out of my hands now, really.

legallybrown312 · Post by **legallybrown312** » Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:09 pm

Checking in!

AA female
3.2-3.4 GPA/167
1.5 years WE

hoping to submit everything by the end of next week!

omd3117 · Post by **omd3117** » Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:45 pm

welcome to the new people!

Also for those you giving the LSAT a take tomorrow, GOOD LUCK! though you won't need it.

jnwa · Post by **jnwa** » Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:13 pm

According to Spivey, decrease in black lsat writers and a decrease in male lsat writers. *pumps fist*. Good luck tomorrow everyone.

omd3117 · Post by **omd3117** » Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:34 pm

jnwa wrote:According to Spivey, decrease in black lsat writers and a decrease in male lsat writers. *pumps fist*. Good luck tomorrow everyone.

lol. i'd really like to see the breakdown of the categorization of URMs with the specific LSAT ranges for this cycle...that could be really telling.

180kickflip · Post by **180kickflip** » Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:51 pm

jnwa wrote:According to Spivey, decrease in black lsat writers and a decrease in male lsat writers. *pumps fist*. Good luck tomorrow everyone.

definitely happy to see that. I just wish the breakdown by score was different....looks like the majority of the increase is in high scorers =/

AshburtonGrove · Post by **AshburtonGrove** » Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:20 pm

180kickflip wrote:
jnwa wrote:According to Spivey, decrease in black lsat writers and a decrease in male lsat writers. *pumps fist*. Good luck tomorrow everyone.
definitely happy to see that. I just wish the breakdown by score was different....looks like the majority of the increase is in high scorers =/

I still think it's a net positive for us, but who the hell knows

jnwa · Post by **jnwa** » Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:33 pm

AshburtonGrove wrote:
180kickflip wrote:
jnwa wrote:According to Spivey, decrease in black lsat writers and a decrease in male lsat writers. *pumps fist*. Good luck tomorrow everyone.
definitely happy to see that. I just wish the breakdown by score was different....looks like the majority of the increase is in high scorers =/
I still think it's a net positive for us, but who the hell knows

Yeah id assume the percentage of URM's in the class stays relatively the same but again despite the net decrease in test takers we might have more AA high scorers than the AA average LSAT would indicate. Thus less people overall but the people left reflect the increased scores. Unknown whether net gain or loss.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... p?t=214761

In addition i found this, according to the calculator there's about 3 AAs who have a higher LSAT than me and theres no way thats true. Ive always felt like the AA LSAT numbers must skew up in some unrepresentative way that cant be predicted using standard deviation.

180kickflip · Post by **180kickflip** » Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:11 am

jnwa wrote:
AshburtonGrove wrote:
180kickflip wrote:
jnwa wrote:According to Spivey, decrease in black lsat writers and a decrease in male lsat writers. *pumps fist*. Good luck tomorrow everyone.
definitely happy to see that. I just wish the breakdown by score was different....looks like the majority of the increase is in high scorers =/
I still think it's a net positive for us, but who the hell knows
Yeah id assume the percentage of URM's in the class stays relatively the same but again despite the net decrease in test takers we might have more AA high scorers than the AA average LSAT would indicate. Thus less people overall but the people left reflect the increased scores. Unknown whether net gain or loss.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... p?t=214761

In addition i found this, according to the calculator there's about 3 AAs who have a higher LSAT than me and theres no way thats true. Ive always felt like the AA LSAT numbers must skew up in some unrepresentative way that cant be predicted using standard deviation.

Yep. The math behind the calculator is sound, but it's functionally useless (similar to the info on the black by the number thread). I've been watching URM cycles on TLS the past 3 years, and every year, we come close to hitting (or beat) the expected # of 170+ URMs just with TLSers. Some of that is because the population size is so small that there can be big year to year variations, some is because none of those calculators (as far as I know) account for candidates that filled multiple race bubbles (allowing some URMs that claim AA on TLS to go unrepresented in the predictor calculations), and some is just Murphy's Law. In any case....high scoring AAs are rare...they just aren't AS RARE as some of the info floating around would have us believe.

GreekOmega12 · Post by **GreekOmega12** » Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:29 pm

Hope everyone who took December killed it!

velvet-lou · Post by **velvet-lou** » Sat Dec 05, 2015 5:39 pm

Post removed.

GreekOmega12 · Post by **GreekOmega12** » Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:06 pm

velvet-lou wrote:
GreekOmega12 wrote:Hope everyone who took December killed it!
How'd you do man?

I feel like I did good honestly, the first LR was hard so probably got a few wrong. LG missed a couple at the end because of time rushing maybe. But overall I feel like I got at 164-170

ThePiedPiper · Post by **ThePiedPiper** » Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:07 pm

velvet-lou wrote:
GreekOmega12 wrote:Hope everyone who took December killed it!
How'd you do man?

That 3rd game looked tricky at first. But then I settled in once my nerves calm down

davey jones · Post by **davey jones** » Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:19 pm

Post removed.

BillClinton Jr · Post by **BillClinton Jr** » Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:51 pm

Shoutout to all the December test takers! It felt good, we'll see in January

glad all apps are out and under review

lawschoolspeaks · Post by **lawschoolspeaks** » Sun Dec 06, 2015 12:55 pm

I need some TLS advice!! I quit my job fully convinced that I was going to law school. I took the Oct test and got a low 160, the Dec test didn't feel much better.

- AA female
- years Wall Street
- lots of volunteer work
-1st gen college
-undergrad Athlete
- good rec
-unique PS

My list is:

Georgetown
Columbia
NYU
U Penn
Cornell

I know its a long shot, but I feel that if I go to a "safety" I won't be happy. I also had this now or never attitude, which is why I'm hesitant to wait another cycle...thoughts anyone???? Trying not to freak out completely

Also if anyone is up for reading my PS that would also help!

Skool · Post by **Skool** » Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:18 pm

Is your gpa so low because you went to Princeton or some place that has an idiosyncratic way of calculating GPA?A 160/normally calculated 3.5-4.0 could certainly pull off Cornell/Georgetown (and more). They might make exceptions for a weird non inflated Princeton GPA.

If not, a 160/3.2 is going to be an uphill battle at all the schools you list, as you acknowledge (although I'm not saying don't apply if you can afford the apps; I'm a big believer in putting your hat in the ring and seeing what happens).

If you really want to go to law school this year, you need to expand your school list to be safe. If you're not willing to expand your school list but still want to go to law school, you have to start thinking about a long term strategy to get your LSAT up in preparation for future cycles. If you're not willing to do either, you need to think about alternative futures for yourself outside of the law. No matter what, crossing your fingers and sending out applications to that list of schools on the basis of your current credentials is too risky; you would likely be forced to go back to the drawing board anyway.

Think about why you want to go law school. Big law or bust? PI or die? Forget about prestige for a minute, what do you want careerwise? Is T-14 the most efficient way to get it? Is LAW the most efficient way to get it?

AfrocentricAsian · Post by **AfrocentricAsian** » Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:58 pm

I'm either applying this cycle or studying for a year to get the best LSAT score that I possibly can. It depends on whether I hit or break 160.

-AA Male
-3.65 GPA (depending on grades this semester, it can go down or up. Taking 5 courses, will definitely get A's in 3 of them, other 2 are up in the air)
-LOR's are not all from my professors....
-Haven't started my diversity statement or personal statement. Doing it during the break.
-Have held leadership positions in college
-Won some awards as well (though only within the sphere of my university)

Blanketing the T-14.

Should I wait a year to retake? Or if I decide to apply, retake after I get some decisions? If I get into a school like Georgetown or Cornell, I'm going...though I want Harvard.

lawschoolspeaks · Post by **lawschoolspeaks** » Sun Dec 06, 2015 5:28 pm

Skool wrote:Is your gpa so low because you went to Princeton or some place that has an idiosyncratic way of calculating GPA?A 160/normally calculated 3.5-4.0 could certainly pull off Cornell/Georgetown (and more). They might make exceptions for a weird non inflated Princeton GPA.

If not, a 160/3.2 is going to be an uphill battle at all the schools you list, as you acknowledge (although I'm not saying don't apply if you can afford the apps; I'm a big believer in putting your hat in the ring and seeing what happens).

If you really want to go to law school this year, you need to expand your school list to be safe. If you're not willing to expand your school list but still want to go to law school, you have to start thinking about a long term strategy to get your LSAT up in preparation for future cycles. If you're not willing to do either, you need to think about alternative futures for yourself outside of the law. No matter what, crossing your fingers and sending out applications to that list of schools on the basis of your current credentials is too risky; you would likely be forced to go back to the drawing board anyway.

Think about why you want to go law school. Big law or bust? PI or die? Forget about prestige for a minute, what do you want careerwise? Is T-14 the most efficient way to get it? Is LAW the most efficient way to get it?

After the October test I received fee waivers from Cornell, UPenn, UChicago, Georgetown. I'd only be paying for two apps which is fine. My GPA is low partly bc of a more difficult major (Finance), partly from being a student athlete and working, but mostly bc both of my study abroad semesters aren't factored into my GPA, so the GPA is only over three years.

Def big law or bust. I want to work in corporate law and then maybe try to start my own PE fund. Law isn't the only way but I've invested so much time, so waiting another cycle would mean I have to get a job for a year then quit again, just less time I'm using to build toward something. Does it hurt my chances next cycle if I apply now and get rejected?

As much as I know I don't have the numbers I saw someone on here last year with a 3.2/162 in at Columbia and NYU....I hate to be so name brand with my school choices but its the only way I'll feel proud of myself and what I'm doing

jnwa · Post by **jnwa** » Sun Dec 06, 2015 8:02 pm

AfrocentricAsian wrote:I'm either applying this cycle or studying for a year to get the best LSAT score that I possibly can. It depends on whether I hit or break 160.

-AA Male
-3.65 GPA (depending on grades this semester, it can go down or up. Taking 5 courses, will definitely get A's in 3 of them, other 2 are up in the air)
-LOR's are not all from my professors....
-Haven't started my diversity statement or personal statement. Doing it during the break.
-Have held leadership positions in college
-Won some awards as well (though only within the sphere of my university)

Blanketing the T-14.

Should I wait a year to retake? Or if I decide to apply, retake after I get some decisions? If I get into a school like Georgetown or Cornell, I'm going...though I want Harvard.

Retake, you have a year, get a high 160 and then you can either go to Georgetown/Cornell for close to free or give yourself a good shot at Harvard. Were you planning on writing your first LSAT in February and applying this cycle?

Also Lawschoolspeaks, my gpa is around yours and my lsat is in the low 170s, AA male. Im still not super confident about my odds at columbia and im pretty sure im getting dinged at Chicago cuz theyre gpa heavy. Georgetown and Cornell are your best shot, i think NYU likes higher lsats even for URM's same with Columbia, Penn is weird and i dont understand them. However if you got into Gtown or Cornell youd likely be paying close to sticker, i know it sucks to take a year off but it could possibly save you a lot of money if you improved your lsat and give you more options for schools. The person with a 3.2 162 is most definately an exception because i saw an aa on my lsn with a 3.3 173 that got waitlisted at columbia.

lawschoolspeaks · Post by **lawschoolspeaks** » Sun Dec 06, 2015 8:33 pm

jnwa wrote:
AfrocentricAsian wrote:I'm either applying this cycle or studying for a year to get the best LSAT score that I possibly can. It depends on whether I hit or break 160.

-AA Male
-3.65 GPA (depending on grades this semester, it can go down or up. Taking 5 courses, will definitely get A's in 3 of them, other 2 are up in the air)
-LOR's are not all from my professors....
-Haven't started my diversity statement or personal statement. Doing it during the break.
-Have held leadership positions in college
-Won some awards as well (though only within the sphere of my university)

Blanketing the T-14.

Should I wait a year to retake? Or if I decide to apply, retake after I get some decisions? If I get into a school like Georgetown or Cornell, I'm going...though I want Harvard.
Retake, you have a year, get a high 160 and then you can either go to Georgetown/Cornell for close to free or give yourself a good shot at Harvard. Were you planning on writing your first LSAT in February and applying this cycle?

Also Lawschoolspeaks, my gpa is around yours and my lsat is in the low 170s, AA male. Im still not super confident about my odds at columbia and im pretty sure im getting dinged at Chicago cuz theyre gpa heavy. Georgetown and Cornell are your best shot, i think NYU likes higher lsats even for URM's same with Columbia, Penn is weird and i dont understand them. However if you got into Gtown or Cornell youd likely be paying close to sticker, i know it sucks to take a year off but it could possibly save you a lot of money if you improved your lsat and give you more options for schools. The person with a 3.2 162 is most definately an exception because i saw an aa on my lsn with a 3.3 173 that got waitlisted at columbia.

Are you applying straight from undergrad?

jnwa · Post by **jnwa** » Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:06 pm

lawschoolspeaks wrote:
Are you applying straight from undergrad?

Yeah I'm straight from undergrad.

lawschoolspeaks · Post by **lawschoolspeaks** » Sun Dec 06, 2015 10:46 pm

jnwa wrote:
lawschoolspeaks wrote:
Are you applying straight from undergrad?
Yeah I'm straight from undergrad.

I guess either way as an AA male with that LSAT you are good.

I wonder how much my finance work experience counts