Texas Southern University Thurgood Marshall School of Law Forum

[thederangedwang]

I have an actual question: so we know from your various posts what you might be able to do to defray the costs of LS, but what do you want to do?

Your question is too vague. Please be more specific.

theres only 2 reasonable things he could have referred to...what do you want to do in law school...what do you want to do after law school.......

[kamaya]

I have an actual question: so we know from your various posts what you might be able to do to defray the costs of LS, but what do you want to do?

Your question is too vague. Please be more specific.

theres only 2 reasonable things he could have referred to...what do you want to do in law school...what do you want to do after law school.......

Since you came up with 2 questions, why don't you ask him which 1 he would like answered.

[thederangedwang]

I have an actual question: so we know from your various posts what you might be able to do to defray the costs of LS, but what do you want to do?

Your question is too vague. Please be more specific.

theres only 2 reasonable things he could have referred to...what do you want to do in law school...what do you want to do after law school.......

Since you came up with 2 questions, why don't you ask him which 1 he would like answered.

So two possibilities is more than you can handle huh? Anything that has more than one option is too vague for you?

What's your favorite color?

[kamaya]

Derangedwang.....you sound ridiculous.

[Doritos]

I think the main reason you are getting a negative reaction here is that you asked for advice, we give you some (don't attend), and then you get all defensive. If you are set on attending this TTTT go right ahead but don't come and ask for advice and act incredulous when we say you shouldn't go there.

I initially asked if anyone was familiar with being on the wait list at TMSL, and no one bothered to give me an answer to my question. Instead, the responses I've received was not to attend that school at all. I was looking for conversation from people who actually went there or who are in a similar situation. Nevertheless, I actually don't mind the back and forth and even entertaining the negative comments. I joined this forum to hear from current, former and even "wanna be" law students and so far I think I've heard a little something from someone in each of those catagories. I was simply defending my point of view. However, I appreciate the feedback; both good and bad.

No one is familiar with the waitlist because anybody who has found their way to this corner of the internet and is active enough to post a reply knows not to attend such an institution. If I were to draw a venn diagram of "TLS posters" and "Texas Southern School of Law applicants" there would be little to no intersection you see.

Don't take our advice that you should not attend this festering pile of TTTT as a slight to you or any students there. I don't think you or any students there are dumb or inferior in any way and I'm sure they could be capable lawyers but the realities of the market are such that you have a very poor chance of finding gainful employment from such a school. The fact that this school is open for business is borderline fraudulent and that is why the TLS hivemind recoils so violently at the thought of somebody giving them money to continue to operate.

If you take one thing away from this thread please let it be this: Do your research. Go to law school transparency, scrutinize their employment stats, talk to current students (not just at the top of the class), learn about the legal market and how firms and other organizations hire. There are plenty of articles about the state of the legal economy and there was one today actually about how a school like COLUMBIA has been hiring some of its own graduates due to the poor legal market. Just inform yourself man, this is your future we are talking about.

[chiefsfan34]

Yall asked about the curve at tmsl so here it basically goes:
You are divided into 4 sections of about 50-60 depending on your incoming class. Throughout the year in your core classes you will get your grades like normal. These grades count for 50% of your final grade. You take the "comps" at the end of the year which are worth the other 50% of the grade. These tests are a uniform test that all four sections will take.
Then the scores and your grades are calculated. The average is computed for each section and they are ranked against each other. The highest section will get a small boost on their grade and the lowest section will get a small drop. However, since it is a curve, if you were one of the highest scores in the lowest section, this will not affect you. It really isnt as big of a deal as people make it out to be.
Yes, there is grade distribument in some classes. Example: top 5% get A's, next 15% get B's, next 70% get C's, next 5% D's, and the botton 5% gets F's. Sure okay, this can knock out your bottom 10%. But you have to make above a 2.0 to return the next year. As you can see a majority of the students will achieve a 2.0. If you got a D or an F its because you deserve it quite honestly. And even if you make a D+ lets say, you could potentially make up for it with like a B- in another class. Granted you may have to take that class over that you got a D in but tis is life.
TMSL isnt for everyone, you will see people drop out throughout the year, but thats law school. It is worth the opportunity and depending on the type of law you intend to practice it could be very beneficial. (Such as Immigration Law here).
Now that was a huge rant and since this is TLS I expect a million attacks on my post and people trying to put the school down. But lets think, these people are on this forum for the sole purpose of bashing?? What does that say about them?

[thederangedwang]

not being able to get a job=\=dropping out of law school

[chiefsfan34]

^^ha yeah

and further, Im not trying to say TMSL is this wonderous school or anything like that. As a student here I know that there could be improvements and that we may not have the reputation of UH or UT, but sometimes you just have to deal with it. You get into it, do your best and hope that things go well. But it definitely wouldnt hurt if you knew people in the legal world ahead of time lol.

[Nova]

and further, Im not trying to say TMSL is this wonderous school or anything like that. As a student here I know that there could be improvements and that we may not have the reputation of UH or UT, but sometimes you just have to deal with it.

Not "may not"... It's "do not". Go Here: --LinkRemoved--

Only 1/3 of your class will get full time legal employment.

TMSL isnt for everyone, you will see people drop out throughout the year, but thats law school. It is worth the opportunity and depending on the type of law you intend to practice it could be very beneficial. (Such as Immigration Law here).
Now that was a huge rant and since this is TLS I expect a million attacks on my post and people trying to put the school down. But lets think, these people are on this forum for the sole purpose of bashing?? What does that say about them?

Not quite. It is not law school in general. It is TTTs.

Whittier (51.5% 1L attrition, #161 in U.S. News)
2. Touro (37.4%, #171)
3. Golden Gate (36.9%, #174)
4. Western State (32.6%, not ranked)
5. Jones School of Law (32.3%, not ranked)
6. Widener (30.5%, #179)
7. St. Thomas University (28.5%, #174)
8. Barry (27.6%, #181)
9. Liberty (27.1%, not ranked)
10. Thomas M Cooley (26.0%, #181)
11. Florida Coastal (23.7%, #171)
12. California Western (23.6%, #156)
13. Valparaiso (23.4%, #143)
14. Florida International (23.3%, #153)
15. Capital (22.8%, #161)
16. Louisville (22.5%, #100)
17. North Carolina Central (22.1%, #168)
18. Detroit Mercy (21.9%, $163)
19. Nova Southeastern (21.8%, #158)
20. Oklahoma City (21.0%, $168)
21. Willamette (21.0%, #137)
22. Western New England (20.7%, #171)
23. Northern Kentucky (20.2%, #156)
24. University of The District of Columbia (20.0%, #181)
25. Franklin Pierce (19.9%, #131)


Sure, students drop out everywhere. Thats life. Good schools have less than 5% attrition. Additionally, good schools dont flunk out a portion of their class because they are afraid their bar passage rate will drop.

[Ludo!]

Yall asked about the curve at tmsl so here it basically goes:
You are divided into 4 sections of about 50-60 depending on your incoming class. Throughout the year in your core classes you will get your grades like normal. These grades count for 50% of your final grade. You take the "comps" at the end of the year which are worth the other 50% of the grade. These tests are a uniform test that all four sections will take.
Then the scores and your grades are calculated. The average is computed for each section and they are ranked against each other. The highest section will get a small boost on their grade and the lowest section will get a small drop. However, since it is a curve, if you were one of the highest scores in the lowest section, this will not affect you. It really isnt as big of a deal as people make it out to be.
Yes, there is grade distribument in some classes. Example: top 5% get A's, next 15% get B's, next 70% get C's, next 5% D's, and the botton 5% gets F's. Sure okay, this can knock out your bottom 10%. But you have to make above a 2.0 to return the next year. As you can see a majority of the students will achieve a 2.0. If you got a D or an F its because you deserve it quite honestly. And even if you make a D+ lets say, you could potentially make up for it with like a B- in another class. Granted you may have to take that class over that you got a D in but tis is life.
TMSL isnt for everyone, you will see people drop out throughout the year, but thats law school. It is worth the opportunity and depending on the type of law you intend to practice it could be very beneficial. (Such as Immigration Law here).
Now that was a huge rant and since this is TLS I expect a million attacks on my post and people trying to put the school down. But lets think, these people are on this forum for the sole purpose of bashing?? What does that say about them?

I'll admit I just skimmed this. Could somebody just quote me the part that talks about job prospects?

[Nova]

It is worth the opportunity and depending on the type of law you intend to practice it could be very beneficial. (Such as Immigration Law here).

You get into it, do your best and hope that things go welll.

I'll admit I just skimmed this. Could somebody just quote me the part that talks about job prospects?

Not good odds (LinkRemoved)

[kamaya]

Yall asked about the curve at tmsl so here it basically goes:
You are divided into 4 sections of about 50-60 depending on your incoming class. Throughout the year in your core classes you will get your grades like normal. These grades count for 50% of your final grade. You take the "comps" at the end of the year which are worth the other 50% of the grade. These tests are a uniform test that all four sections will take.
Then the scores and your grades are calculated. The average is computed for each section and they are ranked against each other. The highest section will get a small boost on their grade and the lowest section will get a small drop. However, since it is a curve, if you were one of the highest scores in the lowest section, this will not affect you. It really isnt as big of a deal as people make it out to be.
Yes, there is grade distribument in some classes. Example: top 5% get A's, next 15% get B's, next 70% get C's, next 5% D's, and the botton 5% gets F's. Sure okay, this can knock out your bottom 10%. But you have to make above a 2.0 to return the next year. As you can see a majority of the students will achieve a 2.0. If you got a D or an F its because you deserve it quite honestly. And even if you make a D+ lets say, you could potentially make up for it with like a B- in another class. Granted you may have to take that class over that you got a D in but tis is life.
TMSL isnt for everyone, you will see people drop out throughout the year, but thats law school. It is worth the opportunity and depending on the type of law you intend to practice it could be very beneficial. (Such as Immigration Law here).
Now that was a huge rant and since this is TLS I expect a million attacks on my post and people trying to put the school down. But lets think, these people are on this forum for the sole purpose of bashing?? What does that say about them?

Very good explanation.....thanks Chiefsfan34.

[Ludo!]

Yall asked about the curve at tmsl so here it basically goes:
You are divided into 4 sections of about 50-60 depending on your incoming class. Throughout the year in your core classes you will get your grades like normal. These grades count for 50% of your final grade. You take the "comps" at the end of the year which are worth the other 50% of the grade. These tests are a uniform test that all four sections will take.
Then the scores and your grades are calculated. The average is computed for each section and they are ranked against each other. The highest section will get a small boost on their grade and the lowest section will get a small drop. However, since it is a curve, if you were one of the highest scores in the lowest section, this will not affect you. It really isnt as big of a deal as people make it out to be.
Yes, there is grade distribument in some classes. Example: top 5% get A's, next 15% get B's, next 70% get C's, next 5% D's, and the botton 5% gets F's. Sure okay, this can knock out your bottom 10%. But you have to make above a 2.0 to return the next year. As you can see a majority of the students will achieve a 2.0. If you got a D or an F its because you deserve it quite honestly. And even if you make a D+ lets say, you could potentially make up for it with like a B- in another class. Granted you may have to take that class over that you got a D in but tis is life.
TMSL isnt for everyone, you will see people drop out throughout the year, but thats law school. It is worth the opportunity and depending on the type of law you intend to practice it could be very beneficial. (Such as Immigration Law here).
Now that was a huge rant and since this is TLS I expect a million attacks on my post and people trying to put the school down. But lets think, these people are on this forum for the sole purpose of bashing?? What does that say about them?

Very good explanation.....thanks Chiefsfan34.

But notice he didn't say anything about jobs

[Doritos]

Yall asked about the curve at tmsl so here it basically goes:
You are divided into 4 sections of about 50-60 depending on your incoming class. Throughout the year in your core classes you will get your grades like normal. These grades count for 50% of your final grade. You take the "comps" at the end of the year which are worth the other 50% of the grade. These tests are a uniform test that all four sections will take.
Then the scores and your grades are calculated. The average is computed for each section and they are ranked against each other. The highest section will get a small boost on their grade and the lowest section will get a small drop. However, since it is a curve, if you were one of the highest scores in the lowest section, this will not affect you. It really isnt as big of a deal as people make it out to be.
Yes, there is grade distribument in some classes. Example: top 5% get A's, next 15% get B's, next 70% get C's, next 5% D's, and the botton 5% gets F's. Sure okay, this can knock out your bottom 10%. But you have to make above a 2.0 to return the next year. As you can see a majority of the students will achieve a 2.0. If you got a D or an F its because you deserve it quite honestly. And even if you make a D+ lets say, you could potentially make up for it with like a B- in another class. Granted you may have to take that class over that you got a D in but tis is life.
TMSL isnt for everyone, you will see people drop out throughout the year, but thats law school. It is worth the opportunity and depending on the type of law you intend to practice it could be very beneficial. (Such as Immigration Law here).
Now that was a huge rant and since this is TLS I expect a million attacks on my post and people trying to put the school down. But lets think, these people are on this forum for the sole purpose of bashing?? What does that say about them?

Very good explanation.....thanks Chiefsfan34.

But notice he didn't say anything about jobs

+1

[kamaya]

"Just answer the question!" Which he did...kudos!

[BearState]

Yall asked about the curve at tmsl so here it basically goes:
You are divided into 4 sections of about 50-60 depending on your incoming class. Throughout the year in your core classes you will get your grades like normal. These grades count for 50% of your final grade. You take the "comps" at the end of the year which are worth the other 50% of the grade. These tests are a uniform test that all four sections will take.
Then the scores and your grades are calculated. The average is computed for each section and they are ranked against each other. The highest section will get a small boost on their grade and the lowest section will get a small drop. However, since it is a curve, if you were one of the highest scores in the lowest section, this will not affect you. It really isnt as big of a deal as people make it out to be.
Yes, there is grade distribument in some classes. Example: top 5% get A's, next 15% get B's, next 70% get C's, next 5% D's, and the botton 5% gets F's. Sure okay, this can knock out your bottom 10%. But you have to make above a 2.0 to return the next year. As you can see a majority of the students will achieve a 2.0. If you got a D or an F its because you deserve it quite honestly. And even if you make a D+ lets say, you could potentially make up for it with like a B- in another class. Granted you may have to take that class over that you got a D in but tis is life.
TMSL isnt for everyone, you will see people drop out throughout the year, but thats law school. It is worth the opportunity and depending on the type of law you intend to practice it could be very beneficial. (Such as Immigration Law here).
Now that was a huge rant and since this is TLS I expect a million attacks on my post and people trying to put the school down. But lets think, these people are on this forum for the sole purpose of bashing?? What does that say about them?

If in some classes the bottom 10% gets an F or D (a grade that kills any job hopes) no matter what, how is that the students' fault? With mandatory Ds and Fs, even if every student did exceptionally well, you would still have 10% with Fs or Ds.

[EdgarWinter]

.

[jpenaonline]

I'm waitlisted at TMSL and would like to correspond with anyone who is waitlisted there also. I'm also interested in hearing from anyone who has experience with that school. Does anyone know if they take many students off of the waitlist? Does anyone know when (other than what's written on their website) they take students off the waitlist? Lets Talk!

I applied to 4 schools: STCL, UH, TMSL, St. Mary's, and Tech. My first LSAT score (145) resulted in an outright rejection from STCL. I was WL'd at the other schools. I was eventually rejected at UH, and I came off of the WL at TMSL on May 26. I was accepted at St. Mary's and Tech in early June.

I don't regret attending TMSL at all. If there's anything I can help you out with, let me know. Good luck!

[Ludo!]

I'm waitlisted at TMSL and would like to correspond with anyone who is waitlisted there also. I'm also interested in hearing from anyone who has experience with that school. Does anyone know if they take many students off of the waitlist? Does anyone know when (other than what's written on their website) they take students off the waitlist? Lets Talk!

I applied to 4 schools: STCL, UH, TMSL, St. Mary's, and Tech. My first LSAT score (145) resulted in an outright rejection from STCL. I was WL'd at the other schools. I was eventually rejected at UH, and I came off of the WL at TMSL on May 26. I was accepted at St. Mary's and Tech in early June.

I don't regret attending TMSL at all. If there's anything I can help you out with, let me know. Good luck!

Your application year is 2011-2012. How do you know if you'll regret it or not yet?

[jpenaonline]

I'm waitlisted at TMSL and would like to correspond with anyone who is waitlisted there also. I'm also interested in hearing from anyone who has experience with that school. Does anyone know if they take many students off of the waitlist? Does anyone know when (other than what's written on their website) they take students off the waitlist? Lets Talk!

I applied to 4 schools: STCL, UH, TMSL, St. Mary's, and Tech. My first LSAT score (145) resulted in an outright rejection from STCL. I was WL'd at the other schools. I was eventually rejected at UH, and I came off of the WL at TMSL on May 26. I was accepted at St. Mary's and Tech in early June.

I don't regret attending TMSL at all. If there's anything I can help you out with, let me know. Good luck!

Your application year is 2011-2012. How do you know if you'll regret it or not yet?

I don't know how to answer your question. I just got through my first year, and I enjoyed it. What should I be confused about?

[peelem]

So, I was just speaking with my faculty advisor about law school and she had some interesting advice:

If you want to get into a PHD program there are only about 30-45 programs that are worth attending. Getting a PHD is incredibly expensive and you need to attend a good school that will give you funding. If you don't get into one of those programs, then don't go--you will dig yourself a hole of debt and not be able to find a job.

Now, here's the deal with law school: there are over 150 law school programs out there, of which perhaps half are decent. However, all of these law schools will happily help you take out enormous loans regardless of the employment outlook. Considering how many people on these forums (myself included) are freaking out about the debt associated with the T25 and up, I can't imagine the debt for a TTTT, (considering the employment prospects). Law school in itself can be a risk, but a TTTT is an incredible risk.

You sound intelligent. The LSAT is a very learn-able test, and even a few more points would help you. However, if you decide to take this risk and go to a TTTT, I wish you the best of luck.

[thederangedwang]

I'm waitlisted at TMSL and would like to correspond with anyone who is waitlisted there also. I'm also interested in hearing from anyone who has experience with that school. Does anyone know if they take many students off of the waitlist? Does anyone know when (other than what's written on their website) they take students off the waitlist? Lets Talk!

I applied to 4 schools: STCL, UH, TMSL, St. Mary's, and Tech. My first LSAT score (145) resulted in an outright rejection from STCL. I was WL'd at the other schools. I was eventually rejected at UH, and I came off of the WL at TMSL on May 26. I was accepted at St. Mary's and Tech in early June.

I don't regret attending TMSL at all. If there's anything I can help you out with, let me know. Good luck!

Your application year is 2011-2012. How do you know if you'll regret it or not yet?

I don't know how to answer your question. I just got through my first year, and I enjoyed it. What should I be confused about?

Lud is probably referring to the fact that since you are still in law school, you havent expierienced any hardship when it comes to finding a job cause you havent needed/started looking for one..but when it does come time for you to go find a job...thats when problem starts and regret kicks in

[Ludo!]

That's exactly what I meant. If you enjoyed it but don't get a job I think you're probably going to regret going.

[jpenaonline]

Lud is probably referring to the fact that since you are still in law school, you havent expierienced any hardship when it comes to finding a job cause you havent needed/started looking for one..but when it does come time for you to go find a job...thats when problem starts and regret kicks in

Oh, I see. My original post was for kamaya who asked specifically for WL insight, and generally for insight into TMSL. Job prospecting isn't an issue for me, but I'm still willing to help out with what I can if anyone has any questions about what TMSL is like.

[utlaw2007]

I'm not sure why the OP is against taking the LSAT again. I think it is worth a try. The job prospects for TM are very poor, as everyone has already said. I can also tell you that starting your own law firm is incredibly difficult, especially in this day and age. Way more competition from lawyers than it used to be. We're everywhere. I know first hand because I have my own law firm.

You can market yourself, but keep in mind that when you market yourself, people do care about where you went to law school. You cannot expect prospective clients to be free from bias, as you are, about your law school.

My suggestion would be to decide exactly what it is that you want to do. And then ask yourself if THurgood Marshall will get you there. If you want to work at a firm of any size, whether biglaw or the smallest hole in the wall firm, Thurgood won't get you there. You would have to be near the top of your class to get a smallLaw job out of TSU. And that was BEFORE the economy went bust. The problem with small law firms is that they don't hire often. And in this economy they don't hire new lawyers. If you want to hang out a shingle and get clients, that's also going to be a very difficult feat coming out of ANY law school. Law school teaches you NOTHING about the practice of law. The only thing that law school teaches you about law practice, is how to solve problems to difficult cases. And this problem only comes up if you are either 1) doing research for a big law firm, 2) are a trial lawyer, or 3) are an appellate lawyer. That means that most lawyers don't really use the knowledge gained from law school. And I've met plenty a lawyer from schools outside the first tier that don't know an accurate version of the law. I've been surprised at how many times the law has been butchered by actual lawyers with years of experience. I even talked to an adjunct professor of one of the clinics at Thurgood. This was before I was licensed so I couldn't take care of the problem myself. Needless to say, the info about the law she gave me was partially correct. The rest of it was wrong. And when you are wrong in your solo practice, you lose. And when you lose, you don't get paid or you lose that customer and develop a bad rep or both. So I would say that the same thing is not taught in all law schools. And Thurgood teaches blackletter as opposed to theory. So that is also a disadvantage to working harder cases. And this is important because when you are starting a law firm, you pretty much have to take difficult cases because those are the only clients you will get. All of my clients came to me after they were turned down by other lawyers. They had to come to me. They had nowhere else to go. So I HAD to solve those problems. It takes a lot of creativity. And a Thurgood Marshall education does not teach that creativity that solves those problems. And if you can't solve the problems, you can't make any money. But clients with difficult cases are not going to go to TSU Law grads because of the perception. That's why lawyers from similarly ranked schools do nothing but family law, personal injury, and criminal. And all those practice areas are DOMINATED by experienced lawyers with reputations.

I agree with everyone here. You should retake the LSAT just to try to raise your score. If you can't, go to TSU only if it helps you obtain your goal. The employment prospects at TSU are dismal. The school's rep is terrible, even in Houston. That's always a bad sign if the city of a school's location doesn't respect a degree from the school.

And I live in Houston. This is also my home town. I've encountered several Thurgood grads. I just know. Proceed at your own risk.

South Texas is also a tier 4 school. The job prospects are terrible for it, as well. But South Texas enjoys a far superior rep to Thurgood in Houston. If I were faced with a choice of going to Thurgood as my ONLY choice, I would have picked a different profession altogether. And I'm being serious and honest. And that goes for St. Mary's and Texas Weslayan. And with the economy the way it is now, I wouldn't do South Texas or Texas Tech either.