AA male URM 151(cannot retake) Forum

JXander · Post by **JXander** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:18 pm

What are your ranked top choices right now, Jay?

JayJones78 · Post by **JayJones78** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:37 pm

JXander wrote:What are your ranked top choices right now, Jay?

By and large, W&L with no real contenders other than Fordham WL.
That said, I am really really hoping for a hail marry from Vandy as it works into the same corner as W&L with a more national reach. But, I really think its a hard sell with my numbers. Maybe a WL. Who knows, I keep hearing they are ultra holistic and committed to a 20% URM. I def showed enough interest!
WashU is out there as well.

But, even if it all falls down and I'm left with W&L I'll be more than happy. It completely fits the bill for me in regards to its regional reach and I think that if I'll do well NYC biglaw can happen.

Oh, and there's Cornell. But with its ultra small class for a t14 I think it'll be really really hard.

BigZuck · Post by **BigZuck** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:52 pm

What has convinced you of W&Ls national reach?

I'm not trolling you, I'm honestly curious. I just always assumed that it pretty much just placed into VA.

JayJones78 · Post by **JayJones78** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:08 pm

BigZuck wrote:What has convinced you of W&Ls national reach?

I'm not trolling you, I'm honestly curious. I just always assumed that it pretty much just placed into VA.

I talked to several 3Ls with job offers outside VA. Some NYC biglaw, some DC PI and biglaw, some even in CA. Also I have done extensive LinkedIn search on W&L grads which graduated in the last 3-4 years. They are all over the place. I am also beginning to see now strong the alum connection is at W&L and I also like that a lot. (They are no2 in the country in LS alumni donation after HLS for example). I really think the school has a uniqueness.

The way I see it is this: just as with any other school 15-30 (maybe 20-30 but also not so optimistic about that) you have to go in knowing that if you want biglaw and if you want options that are outside the region of the school (for example for me: NYC biglaw and if I'm lucky DC biglaw but that's super hard regardless) you HAVE to be at the top 20% of your class. That is also what I heard from 2Ls and 3Ls when I visited. I don't thik W&L is unique in that front. It's pretty much the same in all schools with those rankings. I'm confident that with being an older student, having 8+ years of WE before undergrad, life experience and URM (which I'm told also affect hiring prospects) I will be able to get biglaw out of W&L. But, I also think the same can be said about most schools within those rankings. Luckily I really really like W&L and think that it's a great fit for me and for what what I'm looking for in a LS.

So the national reach of W&L is similar to other 15-30 schools in that if you're in the top 20% and know how to network, bring something unique to the table and you're overall impressive in addition to having great grades, the outside of region opportunities are there. That's just my take. You agree?

That said, I also love the southeast. I'v said this in a few PMs but I'll just put it here as well: one of the reasons W&L appeals to me is because even if I don't get NYC or DC biglaw, I'll be very content living and working in Richmond of Charlotte for example. So it appeals to me also because even if my biglaw aspirations won't materialize, the 'plan B' is a good fit for me as well. I'v lived in NC for a few years and have done work in VA and for me the southeast is a great fit if NYC or DC won't happen.

I hope I kind of answered the question?

spleenworship · Post by **spleenworship** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:53 pm

JayJones78 wrote:
spleenworship wrote:Any luck with scholly negotiations yet?
No go with W&L which I expected. Haven't tried yet with Tulane. Going to give them a call Monday. Sent LOCIs to Fordham for the WL and a pre decision ones to Vandy and WashU. Working on one for Cornell though my initial complete date hasn't even changed yet so I assume it'll be a while.

Regardless I have a feeling that with my remaining pending apps schools will wait until the first deposit dates will pass before making a decision on me so they'll see what their URM pool looks like and who they 'have' to admit. Thoughts on this?

Dude... you are killing me.

It was supposed to be Tulane and all the other schools first.... and then W&L with leverage from any other schools that gave you schollys. You are supposed to go back and forth. School A that gave scholly used as leverage at school B. School B with scholly used on school C. School C scholly taken back to school A. You have basically no leverage at W&L right now. Hopefully you will get something and go back to them with some leverage and they aren't pissed about you asking with no leverage last time.

And they know what their URM pool looks like at this point. 90% of applicants have now applied by late March.

JayJones78 · Post by **JayJones78** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:03 pm

spleenworship wrote:
JayJones78 wrote:
spleenworship wrote:Any luck with scholly negotiations yet?
No go with W&L which I expected. Haven't tried yet with Tulane. Going to give them a call Monday. Sent LOCIs to Fordham for the WL and a pre decision ones to Vandy and WashU. Working on one for Cornell though my initial complete date hasn't even changed yet so I assume it'll be a while.

Regardless I have a feeling that with my remaining pending apps schools will wait until the first deposit dates will pass before making a decision on me so they'll see what their URM pool looks like and who they 'have' to admit. Thoughts on this?
Dude... you are killing me.

It was supposed to be Tulane and all the other schools first.... and then W&L with leverage from any other schools that gave you schollys. You are supposed to go back and forth. School A that gave scholly used as leverage at school B. School B with scholly used on school C. School C scholly taken back to school A. You have basically no leverage at W&L right now. Hopefully you will get something and go back to them with some leverage and they aren't pissed about you asking with no leverage last time.

And they know what their URM pool looks like at this point. 90% of applicants have now applied by late March.

That pool has a chance of changing a lot once first deposit dates is up. Which is shy I am hopeful for Vandy.

Re schollies I know. I just didnt call tulane yet. Regardless W&L specifically say that they do not negotiate offers.

spleenworship · Post by **spleenworship** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:27 pm

JayJones78 wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
JayJones78 wrote:
spleenworship wrote:Any luck with scholly negotiations yet?
No go with W&L which I expected. Haven't tried yet with Tulane. Going to give them a call Monday. Sent LOCIs to Fordham for the WL and a pre decision ones to Vandy and WashU. Working on one for Cornell though my initial complete date hasn't even changed yet so I assume it'll be a while.

Regardless I have a feeling that with my remaining pending apps schools will wait until the first deposit dates will pass before making a decision on me so they'll see what their URM pool looks like and who they 'have' to admit. Thoughts on this?
Dude... you are killing me.

It was supposed to be Tulane and all the other schools first.... and then W&L with leverage from any other schools that gave you schollys. You are supposed to go back and forth. School A that gave scholly used as leverage at school B. School B with scholly used on school C. School C scholly taken back to school A. You have basically no leverage at W&L right now. Hopefully you will get something and go back to them with some leverage and they aren't pissed about you asking with no leverage last time.

And they know what their URM pool looks like at this point. 90% of applicants have now applied by late March.

That pool has a chance of changing a lot once first deposit dates is up. Which is shy I am hopeful for Vandy.

Re schollies I know. I just didnt call tulane yet. Regardless W&L specifically say that they do not negotiate offers.

I'm still hopeful for Vandy for you too. I suppose it might change some, but they know who they've accepted and they know their average yield. I'd put money on them knowing how many URMs approximately that they are gonna get.

Sucks W&L doesn't negotiate. Silly W&L.

JayJones78 · Post by **JayJones78** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:55 pm

Just sent a Pre decision LOCI to Cornell. Pretty skeptical of how impact it'll have but I guess it can't hurt.

JayJones78 · Post by **JayJones78** » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:04 am

Update:
Rejected from W&M

As I wrote in their thread:

Honestly, very much okay with this. In this twisted world of apps I kind of hoped I'd get rejected just cause I didn't want to be in a position to even start a W&L Vs. W&M debate combined with the sheer lack of excitement I had for the school in general.

PRgradBYU · Post by **PRgradBYU** » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:33 am

JayJones78 wrote:Update:
Rejected from W&M

As I wrote in their thread:
Honestly, very much okay with this. In this twisted world of apps I kind of hoped I'd get rejected just cause I didn't want to be in a position to even start a W&L Vs. W&M debate combined with the sheer lack of excitement I had for the school in general.

Bummer, but you bring up a great point.

On the positive side of things: a TON of people were dinged at Cornell a couple weeks ago, so you should take the silence as a good sign.

JayJones78 · Post by **JayJones78** » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:46 am

PRgradBYU wrote:
JayJones78 wrote:Update:
Rejected from W&M

As I wrote in their thread:
Honestly, very much okay with this. In this twisted world of apps I kind of hoped I'd get rejected just cause I didn't want to be in a position to even start a W&L Vs. W&M debate combined with the sheer lack of excitement I had for the school in general.
Bummer, but you bring up a great point.

On the positive side of things: a TON of people were dinged at Cornell a couple weeks ago, so you should take the silence as a good sign.

Thanks. I actually got my first Cornell UR today.

Yah, the W&M app was super blah. Most days I completely forgot I have an app with them

sparty99 · Post by **sparty99** » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:47 am

JayJones78 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:What has convinced you of W&Ls national reach?

I'm not trolling you, I'm honestly curious. I just always assumed that it pretty much just placed into VA.
I talked to several 3Ls with job offers outside VA. Some NYC biglaw, some DC PI and biglaw, some even in CA. Also I have done extensive LinkedIn search on W&L grads which graduated in the last 3-4 years. They are all over the place. I am also beginning to see now strong the alum connection is at W&L and I also like that a lot. (They are no2 in the country in LS alumni donation after HLS for example). I really think the school has a uniqueness.

The way I see it is this: just as with any other school 15-30 (maybe 20-30 but also not so optimistic about that) you have to go in knowing that if you want biglaw and if you want options that are outside the region of the school (for example for me: NYC biglaw and if I'm lucky DC biglaw but that's super hard regardless) you HAVE to be at the top 20% of your class. That is also what I heard from 2Ls and 3Ls when I visited. I don't thik W&L is unique in that front. It's pretty much the same in all schools with those rankings. I'm confident that with being an older student, having 8+ years of WE before undergrad, life experience and URM (which I'm told also affect hiring prospects) I will be able to get biglaw out of W&L. But, I also think the same can be said about most schools within those rankings. Luckily I really really like W&L and think that it's a great fit for me and for what what I'm looking for in a LS.

So the national reach of W&L is similar to other 15-30 schools in that if you're in the top 20% and know how to network, bring something unique to the table and you're overall impressive in addition to having great grades, the outside of region opportunities are there. That's just my take. You agree?

That said, I also love the southeast. I'v said this in a few PMs but I'll just put it here as well: one of the reasons W&L appeals to me is because even if I don't get NYC or DC biglaw, I'll be very content living and working in Richmond of Charlotte for example. So it appeals to me also because even if my biglaw aspirations won't materialize, the 'plan B' is a good fit for me as well. I'v lived in NC for a few years and have done work in VA and for me the southeast is a great fit if NYC or DC won't happen.

I hope I kind of answered the question?

You are only getting BigLaw if you finish in the top 30%. Because you are black, eh, maybe 40% can get you interview. Outside of that, nothing matters....

JayJones78 · Post by **JayJones78** » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:55 am

sparty99 wrote:
JayJones78 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:What has convinced you of W&Ls national reach?

I'm not trolling you, I'm honestly curious. I just always assumed that it pretty much just placed into VA.
I talked to several 3Ls with job offers outside VA. Some NYC biglaw, some DC PI and biglaw, some even in CA. Also I have done extensive LinkedIn search on W&L grads which graduated in the last 3-4 years. They are all over the place. I am also beginning to see now strong the alum connection is at W&L and I also like that a lot. (They are no2 in the country in LS alumni donation after HLS for example). I really think the school has a uniqueness.

The way I see it is this: just as with any other school 15-30 (maybe 20-30 but also not so optimistic about that) you have to go in knowing that if you want biglaw and if you want options that are outside the region of the school (for example for me: NYC biglaw and if I'm lucky DC biglaw but that's super hard regardless) you HAVE to be at the top 20% of your class. That is also what I heard from 2Ls and 3Ls when I visited. I don't thik W&L is unique in that front. It's pretty much the same in all schools with those rankings. I'm confident that with being an older student, having 8+ years of WE before undergrad, life experience and URM (which I'm told also affect hiring prospects) I will be able to get biglaw out of W&L. But, I also think the same can be said about most schools within those rankings. Luckily I really really like W&L and think that it's a great fit for me and for what what I'm looking for in a LS.

So the national reach of W&L is similar to other 15-30 schools in that if you're in the top 20% and know how to network, bring something unique to the table and you're overall impressive in addition to having great grades, the outside of region opportunities are there. That's just my take. You agree?

That said, I also love the southeast. I'v said this in a few PMs but I'll just put it here as well: one of the reasons W&L appeals to me is because even if I don't get NYC or DC biglaw, I'll be very content living and working in Richmond of Charlotte for example. So it appeals to me also because even if my biglaw aspirations won't materialize, the 'plan B' is a good fit for me as well. I'v lived in NC for a few years and have done work in VA and for me the southeast is a great fit if NYC or DC won't happen.

I hope I kind of answered the question?
You are only getting BigLaw if you finish in the top 30%. Because you are black, eh, maybe 40% can get you interview. Outside of that, nothing matters....

Yup. Pretty much summs everything up and the main reason I don't look at employment statistics that much. For biglaw it really doesn't matter as much. Top 30% or prepare to die a slow death

spleenworship · Post by **spleenworship** » Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:29 pm

Sorry about W&M.

Almost done with the cycle though. Soon you'll be in law school and all this will seem like a far-away dream.

JayJones78 · Post by **JayJones78** » Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:14 pm

Update:

WL at GW just now.

Honestly pretty suprised as I expected a straight out rejection.
Interesting...

spleenworship · Post by **spleenworship** » Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:40 pm

JayJones78 wrote:Update:

WL at GW just now.

Honestly pretty suprised as I expected a straight out rejection.
Interesting...

Nice.

JayJones78 · Post by **JayJones78** » Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:56 pm

spleenworship wrote:
JayJones78 wrote:Update:

WL at GW just now.

Honestly pretty suprised as I expected a straight out rejection.
Interesting...

Nice.

I agree. Not sure how GW WL me and W&M rejected me

dawyzest1 · Post by **dawyzest1** » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:21 pm

JayJones78 wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
JayJones78 wrote:Update:

WL at GW just now.

Honestly pretty suprised as I expected a straight out rejection.
Interesting...

Nice.
I agree. Not sure how GW WL me and W&M rejected me

Honestly, this entire process confuses me. I guess we all just pay our fares and take our chances. I am rooting hard for you, Jay. I just have this feeling Cornell is going to come through for you

JayJones78 · Post by **JayJones78** » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:34 pm

dawyzest1 wrote:
JayJones78 wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
JayJones78 wrote:Update:

WL at GW just now.

Honestly pretty suprised as I expected a straight out rejection.
Interesting...

Nice.
I agree. Not sure how GW WL me and W&M rejected me
Honestly, this entire process confuses me. I guess we all just pay our fares and take our chances. I am rooting hard for you, Jay. I just have this feeling Cornell is going to come through for you

I'll take a feeling over a non feeling!!

JayJones78 · Post by **JayJones78** » Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:18 pm

Just withdrawn from AU.
I sent them an email asking for money just to see what they'll say. They said no. For the life of me I don't understand this school and I don't understand who pays sticker to attend it

danitt · Post by **danitt** » Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:21 pm

JayJones78 wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
JayJones78 wrote:Update:

WL at GW just now.

Honestly pretty suprised as I expected a straight out rejection.
Interesting...

Nice.
I agree. Not sure how GW WL me and W&M rejected me

Schools just don't know what to do with URMs so decisions get crazy unpredictable.

JayJones78 · Post by **JayJones78** » Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:25 pm

danitt wrote:
JayJones78 wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
JayJones78 wrote:Update:

WL at GW just now.

Honestly pretty suprised as I expected a straight out rejection.
Interesting...

Nice.
I agree. Not sure how GW WL me and W&M rejected me
Schools just don't know what to do with URMs so decisions get crazy unpredictable.

Dannit from your keyboard to adcomms in Nashville and Ithaca!!

spleenworship · Post by **spleenworship** » Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:51 pm

JayJones78 wrote:Just withdrawn from AU.
I sent them an email asking for money just to see what they'll say. They said no. For the life of me I don't understand this school and I don't understand who pays sticker to attend it

Honestly, I think people who shouldn't be lawyers do that. Seriously, if you are going into a job in which being anal retentive and risk averse are some of the requirements to having a good future, then anyone who doesn't look up AU's job stats and total debt and think to themselves "that's a crappy investment" shouldn't be a lawyer.

PRgradBYU · Post by **PRgradBYU** » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:10 pm

JayJones78 wrote:Just withdrawn from AU.
I sent them an email asking for money just to see what they'll say. They said no. For the life of me I don't understand this school and I don't understand who pays sticker to attend it

Good call, man. I withdrew from AU before they had a chance to YP me a la rejection or wait list. The fact that I haven't heard literally ANYTHING from them since going complete rubbed me the wrong way. If you want a good laugh, read the AU thread and check out all of the YPs that went down today, haha.

JayJones78 · Post by **JayJones78** » Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:16 am

PRgradBYU wrote:
JayJones78 wrote:Just withdrawn from AU.
I sent them an email asking for money just to see what they'll say. They said no. For the life of me I don't understand this school and I don't understand who pays sticker to attend it
Good call, man. I withdrew from AU before they had a chance to YP me a la rejection or wait list. The fact that I haven't heard literally ANYTHING from them since going complete rubbed me the wrong way. If you want a good laugh, read the AU thread and check out all of the YPs that went down today, haha.

Yah. It wasn't a real contender and I would rather it will go to someone who actually wants the spot. We'll how this rollercoasrer ride will end...

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