URM 2013-2014 Cycle Thread Forum

[teampeeta]

A 3.2/162 African female landed Columbia last year.

A 3.6/158 then 163 AA male landed Stanford, NYU, and Columbia last year. He's attending NYU on full scholly now.

Please apply.

Seriously? Did he develop the cure for HIV or something? I think I'm going to need to see those receipts.

[MoMettaMonk]

i missed you guys

i've just finished catching up on what y'all have been talking about... i didn't know GW gave full-tuition schollys for people who ED! that's good to know as a fallback..

can anyone speak about how much debt is generally considered an acceptable amount?

For instance, my brother is getting $15K total from Chicago so he will probably graduate with $225K in debt. He seems to think that this is alright because he wants biglaw, but if I want to be a US attorney (which doesn't pay too well), it doesn't make sense to have that much debt, right? Or does it not really matter because of LRAP?

Generally speaking LRAP (or PSLF more generally) will help you out, but it's important to read the fine print on those. Twenty has a pretty great post that breaks down the different t14 LRAPs somewhere around here.

[MoMettaMonk]

A 3.2/162 African female landed Columbia last year.

A 3.6/158 then 163 AA male landed Stanford, NYU, and Columbia last year. He's attending NYU on full scholly now.

Please apply.

Seriously? Did he develop the cure for HIV or something? I think I'm going to need to see those receipts.

He probably got one of the named PI scholarships, not a general merit scholarship. If I was a 3.6/158 AA I wouldn't count on a full scholly to NYU as an expected outcome (unless of course I was an Olympian/cured cancer/named Sasha or Malia Obama).

[twenty]

i've just finished catching up on what y'all have been talking about... i didn't know GW gave full-tuition schollys for people who ED! that's good to know as a fallback..

can anyone speak about how much debt is generally considered an acceptable amount?

For instance, my brother is getting $15K total from Chicago so he will probably graduate with $225K in debt. He seems to think that this is alright because he wants biglaw, but if I want to be a US attorney (which doesn't pay too well), it doesn't make sense to have that much debt, right? Or does it not really matter because of LRAP?

There's no "acceptable amount" per se, because everyone's goals are different. Some people are totally prepared and actually looking forward to biglaw for 4-5 years, other people want to do biglaw for exactly as long as it takes for them to lateral out. Keep in mind that every dollar you take out in loans is a dollar + interest you now no longer get from your awesome biglaw job, so less debt is basically always better.

When you say "US Attorney" I assume you mean AUSA, because US Attorneys are appointed by the president. AUSA spots are far from entry level and require some serious hustle in biglaw (think partner track-style hustle at a top firm) or from a few years in DOJ Honors, which even top 1/3rd at HYS struggles to get.

I would not recommend anyone go into law school expecting to use LRAP unless you're fairly certain you'll have a PI job at graduation (which is actually harder to get than biglaw, believe it or not.) Since it sounds like you'll be doing some time in biglaw, take as little debt on as is reasonable.

I have a post on all the LRAPs in the FAQ section. It's very fascinating, and Chicago has a great program.

[Mojosodope]

A 3.2/162 African female landed Columbia last year.

A 3.6/158 then 163 AA male landed Stanford, NYU, and Columbia last year. He's attending NYU on full scholly now.

Please apply.

Seriously? Did he develop the cure for HIV or something? I think I'm going to need to see those receipts.

He probably got one of the named PI scholarships, not a general merit scholarship. If I was a 3.6/158 AA I wouldn't count on a full scholly to NYU as an expected outcome (unless of course I was an Olympian/cured cancer/named Sasha or Malia Obama).

He got the An Bryce I think

[lemons]

There's no "acceptable amount" per se, because everyone's goals are different. Some people are totally prepared and actually looking forward to biglaw for 4-5 years, other people want to do biglaw for exactly as long as it takes for them to lateral out. Keep in mind that every dollar you take out in loans is a dollar + interest you now no longer get from your awesome biglaw job, so less debt is basically always better.

When you say "US Attorney" I assume you mean AUSA, because US Attorneys are appointed by the president. AUSA spots are far from entry level and require some serious hustle in biglaw (think partner track-style hustle at a top firm) or from a few years in DOJ Honors, which even top 1/3rd at HYS struggles to get.

I would not recommend anyone go into law school expecting to use LRAP unless you're fairly certain you'll have a PI job at graduation (which is actually harder to get than biglaw, believe it or not.) Since it sounds like you'll be doing some time in biglaw, take as little debt on as is reasonable.

I have a post on all the LRAPs in the FAQ section. It's very fascinating, and Chicago has a great program.

yeah, sorry, i did mean AUSA with the ultimate goal of USA

i really do not want to do biglaw... i mean if it is a choice between being unemployed and doing biglaw i'd do biglaw. i'm thinking that being at law school will make me change my mind a bit but i'm a lot more interested in public interest and government work. is it hard for people in the top 1/3 to get PI jobs? even with PI focused clinics and volunteer work?

and i'll take a look at your LRAP FAQ. i don't know much about the specifics and i didn't realize there was a difference haha

[Dr.Zer0]

All this talk about sending apps and waiting for acceptances and I'm just over here still taking PTs haha. At this rate I'll just end up applying next cycle.

Twenty, always with that solid advice bro.

[AAJD2B]

A 3.2/162 African female landed Columbia last year.

A 3.6/158 then 163 AA male landed Stanford, NYU, and Columbia last year. He's attending NYU on full scholly now.

Please apply.

Seriously? Did he develop the cure for HIV or something? I think I'm going to need to see those receipts.

His name was "lawprospie" on here. You are free to use the search feature.

[AAJD2B]

A 3.2/162 African female landed Columbia last year.

A 3.6/158 then 163 AA male landed Stanford, NYU, and Columbia last year. He's attending NYU on full scholly now.

Please apply.

Seriously? Did he develop the cure for HIV or something? I think I'm going to need to see those receipts.

He probably got one of the named PI scholarships, not a general merit scholarship. If I was a 3.6/158 AA I wouldn't count on a full scholly to NYU as an expected outcome (unless of course I was an Olympian/cured cancer/named Sasha or Malia Obama).

He got the An Bryce I think

Yup!

[AAJD2B]

All this talk about sending apps and waiting for acceptances and I'm just over here still taking PTs haha. At this rate I'll just end up applying next cycle.

Twenty, always with that solid advice bro.

Naw. Apply this cycle. A number of URMs only went complete in mid to late January last year after sitting December and are now attending some top schools. Remember Wormfather? He also had a high GPA like you, AA make that landed H and S though not going complete until January I think, He also had three scores with December being his last. You're good.

[twenty]

yeah, sorry, i did mean AUSA with the ultimate goal of USA

i really do not want to do biglaw... i mean if it is a choice between being unemployed and doing biglaw i'd do biglaw. i'm thinking that being at law school will make me change my mind a bit but i'm a lot more interested in public interest and government work. is it hard for people in the top 1/3 to get PI jobs? even with PI focused clinics and volunteer work?

and i'll take a look at your LRAP FAQ. i don't know much about the specifics and i didn't realize there was a difference haha

The hiring pyramid is very different at the PI/Govt level than it is for biglaw. For biglaw, TCR is go to a top school, get good grades, own OCI, and then transfer to the client when you get burned out after a few years. The government hiring model is, look for disabled veterans first, then look at vets with status (i.e, a year work experience at a federal agency), then look at vets, then look at guys with status, then look at law grads that demonstrate commitment. So basically, a kid with a year and a day's worth of work experience as a file clerk at the HUD has a better chance of getting HUD honors than does top 10% at HYS.

At some point, you quickly realize that you had just as good of a chance at getting DOJ honors from a local T1 (very low) as you did from Harvard (slightly less low.) Grades matter significantly less for PI/Govt (though they still matter), and commitment to a specific field matters a lot more. We're not talking a lick and a promise commitment, though, we're talking 2-5 years of work experience prior, and working part time all through law school.

I highly recommend looking at the profiles of DOJ Honors kids and other federal honors programs. You'll notice three themes, 1) a TON of vets with law degrees, 2) school name does not matter in the least, and 3) these people have more on their resume than "flagship law review."

Thanks Dr.Zer0.

[toshiroh]

I wonder why URMs that have succeeded in getting into top schools don't stick around more after getting in. Besides Nova, it seems like people get in and just poof.... gone.

[Mojosodope]

I wonder why URMs that have succeeded in getting into top schools don't stick around more after getting in. Besides Nova, it seems like people get in and just poof.... gone.

I feel like minus the lounge and a few relevant topics in your class of board, there really wouldn't be a need to check the forum much

[californiauser]

There's no "acceptable amount" per se, because everyone's goals are different. Some people are totally prepared and actually looking forward to biglaw for 4-5 years, other people want to do biglaw for exactly as long as it takes for them to lateral out. Keep in mind that every dollar you take out in loans is a dollar + interest you now no longer get from your awesome biglaw job, so less debt is basically always better.

When you say "US Attorney" I assume you mean AUSA, because US Attorneys are appointed by the president. AUSA spots are far from entry level and require some serious hustle in biglaw (think partner track-style hustle at a top firm) or from a few years in DOJ Honors, which even top 1/3rd at HYS struggles to get.

I would not recommend anyone go into law school expecting to use LRAP unless you're fairly certain you'll have a PI job at graduation (which is actually harder to get than biglaw, believe it or not.) Since it sounds like you'll be doing some time in biglaw, take as little debt on as is reasonable.

I have a post on all the LRAPs in the FAQ section. It's very fascinating, and Chicago has a great program.

yeah, sorry, i did mean AUSA with the ultimate goal of USA

i really do not want to do biglaw... i mean if it is a choice between being unemployed and doing biglaw i'd do biglaw. i'm thinking that being at law school will make me change my mind a bit but i'm a lot more interested in public interest and government work. is it hard for people in the top 1/3 to get PI jobs? even with PI focused clinics and volunteer work?

and i'll take a look at your LRAP FAQ. i don't know much about the specifics and i didn't realize there was a difference haha

How do you plan on becoming a AUSA without big law?

I want to eventually become a AUSA, but it's obviously not really something you can count doing on in law school.

[Typhoon24]

I haven't posted in a minute, but curiosity has drawn me out of my hibernation. Did anyone else get an email from Yale re: applying and a webinar?

Welcome back, Sassy!

I got an email like that a few weeks back. I think it went out to everyone at my UG who's got an lsac account. I got it last year as well. The email I got invited people from my ug and 2 others to attend a webinar.

And Here I was feeling all special

[twenty]

I'd imagine Marine JAG would put you in a really good spot to get AUSA if you were absolutely determined to avoid biglaw.

Once we start talking about AUSA, though, we get into the unicorn zone. 400 applicants for one spot in a flyover state? Heh.

[californiauser]

I'd imagine Marine JAG would put you in a really good spot to get AUSA if you were absolutely determined to avoid biglaw.

Once we start talking about AUSA, though, we get into the unicorn zone. 400 applicants for one spot in a flyover state? Heh.

Exactly. It's kind of dumb to even talk about as a 0L. It requires a tremendous amount of luck to even get in the running.

Isn't JAG really competitive nowadays, too?

[okaygo]

I've been doing research and I'm 98% sure I'm doing ED at GW. I kinda doubt I'll get it but it's definitely worth it for my goals. Thanks yall.

[mandyjay11]

I've been doing research and I'm 98% sure I'm doing ED at GW. I kinda doubt I'll get it but it's definitely worth it for my goals. Thanks yall.

This will be all of us celebrating when you get accepted. --ImageRemoved--
Lmao that gif is so funny and ratchet I can't stop looking at it.

[amb89]

I'd imagine Marine JAG would put you in a really good spot to get AUSA if you were absolutely determined to avoid biglaw.

Once we start talking about AUSA, though, we get into the unicorn zone. 400 applicants for one spot in a flyover state? Heh.

Exactly. It's kind of dumb to even talk about as a 0L. It requires a tremendous amount of luck to even get in the running.

Isn't JAG really competitive nowadays, too?

JAG is very competitive, they take most of the people from the top 5 that have shown tremendous leadership qualities as well. Harvard has a handful of people that go to jag.

[AAJD2B]

I've been doing research and I'm 98% sure I'm doing ED at GW. I kinda doubt I'll get it but it's definitely worth it for my goals. Thanks yall.

This will be all of us celebrating when you get accepted. --ImageRemoved--
Lmao that gif is so funny and ratchet I can't stop looking at it.

I confess that I cannot gyrate my waist like this even as a black woman. My race card should be revoked.

[coolbean2013]

I've been doing research and I'm 98% sure I'm doing ED at GW. I kinda doubt I'll get it but it's definitely worth it for my goals. Thanks yall.

This will be all of us celebrating when you get accepted. http://24.media.tumblr.com/c56584fda5fd ... 1_1280.gif
Lmao that gif is so funny and ratchet I can't stop looking at it.

I confess that I cannot gyrate my waist like this even as a black woman. My race card should be revoked.

I'm dyinggg

[twenty]

JAG is very competitive, they take most of the people from the top 5 that have shown tremendous leadership qualities as well. Harvard has a handful of people that go to jag.

Isn't JAG really competitive nowadays, too?

"JAG" means a lot of things. Marine PLC JAG (two six week OCS sessions) is not terribly difficult to get into -- you have to be really in shape and you have to get through Marine OCS (which is a pretty big deal in itself), but after that you're pretty much set. Air Force and Navy JAG have a 5-10% selection rate, so you're more likely to get into Yale than getting either of those, and Army is about 18%, but they only take law grads.

So if you wanted AUSA really badly, but biglaw was just strictly out of the question, Marine JAG is probably your best way to go.

Also, school ranking means virtually nothing outside of biglaw, super prestigious PI, and A3 clerkships. JAGs come from Cooley and Yale alike. This is true of almost every* Government/PI spot there is.

*with notable exceptions of ACLU, NRDC, (etc) and true "international law."

[Dr.Zer0]

JAG is very competitive, they take most of the people from the top 5 that have shown tremendous leadership qualities as well. Harvard has a handful of people that go to jag.

Isn't JAG really competitive nowadays, too?

"JAG" means a lot of things. Marine PLC JAG (two six week OCS sessions) is not terribly difficult to get into -- you have to be really in shape and you have to get through Marine OCS (which is a pretty big deal in itself), but after that you're pretty much set. Air Force and Navy JAG have a 5-10% selection rate, so you're more likely to get into Yale than getting either of those, and Army is about 18%, but they only take law grads.

So if you wanted AUSA really badly, but biglaw was just strictly out of the question, Marine JAG is probably your best way to go.

Also, school ranking means virtually nothing outside of biglaw, super prestigious PI, and A3 clerkships. JAGs come from Cooley and Yale alike. This is true of almost every* Government/PI spot there is.

*with notable exceptions of ACLU, NRDC, (etc) and true "international law."

Just FYI, twenty is a secret recruiter for the military.

[twenty]

Incidentally, the recruiter I'm working with right now is a complete idiot.

I'd be a damn fine recruiter if I do say so myself.