Blacks and Law School: By The Numbers Forum

[sunsheyen]

updated stats here through 2011-2012 cycle
http://www.lsac.org/docs/default-source ... -12-03.pdf

for future reference once link changes for updated cycles, here is the path

lsac.org > resources tab on front page (before you even log in) > research > LSAT technical reports > LSAT Performance With Regional, Gender, and Racial/Ethnic Breakdowns

pdf file with various breakdowns, country, region of us, race/male, race/female, total us, test administration month

[hcss11]

Bump—question: can we get an update of these stats for the 2014-2015 app cycle (or, um, 2013-2014 cycle, depending on what's most relevant. Still learning here, people)?

a. What does Yield Protect mean?

b. My GPA is 3.37/4.0.

Yield protection is something law schools will engage in when they receive an applicant who is otherwise qualified for admission that they wait-list because they believe there is a good chance the applicant will get into more desirable schools and thus a low chance the applicant will attend their school. It allows them to show higher selectivity, which provides a marginal assist to their ranking.

Penn and UVA are the T14 schools that seem to yield protect URMs the hardest. You can see the phenomenon here:

http://myLSN.info/d1qmwe_1-14.jpg

There is no way in hell an applicant qualified to be admitted to Harvard or Stanford is not qualified to be admitted to Penn. No way.

[EvMont]

Bump—question: can we get an update of these stats for the 2014-2015 app cycle (or, um, 2013-2014 cycle, depending on what's most relevant. Still learning here, people)?

What you see here is all there is.

The info in this thread is based on a report issued by LSAC, which included data form the 2005-2006 cycle through the 2011-2012 cycle. You can access that report using the link above. As far as I know, LSAC has not released data for more recent cycles.

[hcss11]

Ok, thanks for clearing that up.

Bump—question: can we get an update of these stats for the 2014-2015 app cycle (or, um, 2013-2014 cycle, depending on what's most relevant. Still learning here, people)?

What you see here is all there is.

The info in this thread is based on a report issued by LSAC, which included data form the 2005-2006 cycle through the 2011-2012 cycle. You can access that report using the link above. As far as I know, LSAC has not released data for more recent cycles.

[hcss11]

Just went to the 2014 ABA-LSAC Official Guide to ABA-Approved Law Schools and did my GPA/LSAT filters. For the T14 schools that opted to participate, I'm getting a mean 4-14% acceptance chance with a 3.37 GPA and projected 170 LSAT.

Now, a lawyer mentor of mine recently offered to pay for my LSAT prep course and books. That assumes he believes I'm serious about this, and I should be in line with his expectations if I'm going to be serious about this.

However, I'm in the process of starting a company, and hunting for think tank jobs all the while. I'm trying to minimize my debt as much as possible.

Even being an AA Male, with the job market for lawyers being as bad as it is, is it worth me spending my mentor's money for an LSAT class when:
a. This year's last LSAT test taking date is in June and I haven't started studying yet, and;
b. My projected chances of getting into the T14 with 3.37 UGPA/projected 170 LSAT put me below 15%?

I'd love some realistic feedback here from anyone willing to give it.

[GeneralFile(s)]

Just went to the 2014 ABA-LSAC Official Guide to ABA-Approved Law Schools and did my GPA/LSAT filters. For the T14 schools that opted to participate, I'm getting a mean 4-14% acceptance chance with a 3.37 GPA and projected 170 LSAT.

Now, a lawyer mentor of mine recently offered to pay for my LSAT prep course and books. That assumes he believes I'm serious about this, and I should be in line with his expectations if I'm going to be serious about this.

However, I'm in the process of starting a company, and hunting for think tank jobs all the while. I'm trying to minimize my debt as much as possible.

Even being an AA Male, with the job market for lawyers being as bad as it is, is it worth me spending my mentor's money for an LSAT class when:
a. This year's last LSAT test taking date is in June and I haven't started studying yet, and;
b. My projected chances of getting into the T14 with 3.37 UGPA/projected 170 LSAT put me below 15%?

I'd love some realistic feedback here from anyone willing to give it.

As an AA male, if you score 170 on the LSAT you will be very likely be admitted to every T14 except HYS, and possibly H and S as well.

[toshiroh]

Just went to the 2014 ABA-LSAC Official Guide to ABA-Approved Law Schools and did my GPA/LSAT filters. For the T14 schools that opted to participate, I'm getting a mean 4-14% acceptance chance with a 3.37 GPA and projected 170 LSAT.

Now, a lawyer mentor of mine recently offered to pay for my LSAT prep course and books. That assumes he believes I'm serious about this, and I should be in line with his expectations if I'm going to be serious about this.

However, I'm in the process of starting a company, and hunting for think tank jobs all the while. I'm trying to minimize my debt as much as possible.

Even being an AA Male, with the job market for lawyers being as bad as it is, is it worth me spending my mentor's money for an LSAT class when:
a. This year's last LSAT test taking date is in June and I haven't started studying yet, and;
b. My projected chances of getting into the T14 with 3.37 UGPA/projected 170 LSAT put me below 15%?

I'd love some realistic feedback here from anyone willing to give it.

realistically I'd throw that below 15% chance out the window. Just look at the URM acceptances thread and the number of people who have been accepted to T-14s with sub 170. I was accepted to NYU, sub 170 and sub your GPA. I would take those numbers with a grain of salt

[hcss11]

Can you direct me to the specific URM acceptances thread you're referring to?

Just went to the 2014 ABA-LSAC Official Guide to ABA-Approved Law Schools and did my GPA/LSAT filters. For the T14 schools that opted to participate, I'm getting a mean 4-14% acceptance chance with a 3.37 GPA and projected 170 LSAT.

Now, a lawyer mentor of mine recently offered to pay for my LSAT prep course and books. That assumes he believes I'm serious about this, and I should be in line with his expectations if I'm going to be serious about this.

However, I'm in the process of starting a company, and hunting for think tank jobs all the while. I'm trying to minimize my debt as much as possible.

Even being an AA Male, with the job market for lawyers being as bad as it is, is it worth me spending my mentor's money for an LSAT class when:
a. This year's last LSAT test taking date is in June and I haven't started studying yet, and;
b. My projected chances of getting into the T14 with 3.37 UGPA/projected 170 LSAT put me below 15%?

I'd love some realistic feedback here from anyone willing to give it.

realistically I'd throw that below 15% chance out the window. Just look at the URM acceptances thread and the number of people who have been accepted to T-14s with sub 170. I was accepted to NYU, sub 170 and sub your GPA. I would take those numbers with a grain of salt

[Nova]

Just went to the 2014 ABA-LSAC Official Guide to ABA-Approved Law Schools and did my GPA/LSAT filters. For the T14 schools that opted to participate, I'm getting a mean 4-14% acceptance chance with a 3.37 GPA and projected 170 LSAT.

Na. That calculator is garbage.

with a B+ gpa and a high 160s LSAT, youre pretty much T14 secure

[Nova]

Can you direct me to the specific URM acceptances thread you're referring to?

http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 4&t=224199

[Dr.Zer0]

Bump

[Nova]

Bump

this should b stickied

[S. Goodman]

Bump

this should b stickied

Nova's pictures just get more and more attractive. lol

[Nova]

tyty

[FairchildFLT]

tyty

I thought this was a picture of Rachel from Suits.

[jlwx]

Just went to the 2014 ABA-LSAC Official Guide to ABA-Approved Law Schools and did my GPA/LSAT filters. For the T14 schools that opted to participate, I'm getting a mean 4-14% acceptance chance with a 3.37 GPA and projected 170 LSAT.

Now, a lawyer mentor of mine recently offered to pay for my LSAT prep course and books. That assumes he believes I'm serious about this, and I should be in line with his expectations if I'm going to be serious about this.

However, I'm in the process of starting a company, and hunting for think tank jobs all the while. I'm trying to minimize my debt as much as possible.

Even being an AA Male, with the job market for lawyers being as bad as it is, is it worth me spending my mentor's money for an LSAT class when:
a. This year's last LSAT test taking date is in June and I haven't started studying yet, and;
b. My projected chances of getting into the T14 with 3.37 UGPA/projected 170 LSAT put me below 15%?

I'd love some realistic feedback here from anyone willing to give it.

I have those exact numbers (3.37 and 170) and I was admitted to UVA 10/3. Get a 170+ on the LSAT and you should be fine. This is obviously advice without knowing about your work experience, undergraduate institution, and what your personal statement would look like.

Just don't let the "predictors" deter you. If you want to go to a T14 school, do your research and work hard to get in. That's what I did and it's already paying off.

[Harvette]

updated stats here through 2011-2012 cycle
http://www.lsac.org/docs/default-source ... -12-03.pdf

for future reference once link changes for updated cycles, here is the path

lsac.org > resources tab on front page (before you even log in) > research > LSAT technical reports > LSAT Performance With Regional, Gender, and Racial/Ethnic Breakdowns

pdf file with various breakdowns, country, region of us, race/male, race/female, total us, test administration month

What do those numbers translate to?
I recently watched a YouTube video by prof alex Johnson at UVA who indicated over 100 AA with scores above 170. Albeit this was in a previous year. Do we assume that the number has dropped under 10 as displayed in this forum? I am a bit confused.

[AnonymousApplicant]

updated stats here through 2011-2012 cycle
http://www.lsac.org/docs/default-source ... -12-03.pdf

for future reference once link changes for updated cycles, here is the path

lsac.org > resources tab on front page (before you even log in) > research > LSAT technical reports > LSAT Performance With Regional, Gender, and Racial/Ethnic Breakdowns

pdf file with various breakdowns, country, region of us, race/male, race/female, total us, test administration month

What do those numbers translate to?
I recently watched a YouTube video by prof alex Johnson at UVA who indicated over 100 AA with scores above 170. Albeit this was in a previous year. Do we assume that the number has dropped under 10 as displayed in this forum? I am a bit confused.

I saw that video as well. Prof. Johnson simply got his numbers wrong. Never in the history of the LSAT have 100+ AAs scores above a 170 in a single year.

[Harvette]

updated stats here through 2011-2012 cycle
http://www.lsac.org/docs/default-source ... -12-03.pdf

for future reference once link changes for updated cycles, here is the path

lsac.org > resources tab on front page (before you even log in) > research > LSAT technical reports > LSAT Performance With Regional, Gender, and Racial/Ethnic Breakdowns

pdf file with various breakdowns, country, region of us, race/male, race/female, total us, test administration month

What do those numbers translate to?
I recently watched a YouTube video by prof alex Johnson at UVA who indicated over 100 AA with scores above 170. Albeit this was in a previous year. Do we assume that the number has dropped under 10 as displayed in this forum? I am a bit confused.

I saw that video as well. Prof. Johnson simply got his numbers wrong. Never in the history of the LSAT have 100+ AAs scores above a 170 in a single year.

How can you be so sure? Was there may be an issue with the pool? Like he included mixed AA? or may be his numbers look at highest lsat whereas the ones we have are about average?
I am just surprised of the huge discrepancy.
Also agree that not many people score 170+ whether they are AA or not
But won't most AA here be at one of the top 3-6 if the numbers we have here were correct?

[180kickflip]

I don't know if this is true for every LSAT administration ever, but we have published stats for many of the more recent administrations and by looking at the total number of AAs who took the test and the distribution numbers of that group, we can get a relatively clear picture of the number of people scoring in each range. We can't know if all the AAs bubbled in AA when they took the test (a requirement for the numbers to really be correct), so the prediction isn't perfect, but the numbers should be close.

Also, I do believe that many of the highest scoring AAs that apply are on this site. I think that is supported by some of the admissions cycles that are posted here (Yale acceptances, Ruby's, Dillards, RTKs, etc.). These outcomes are so rare that only the applicants with top credentials would be competitive for them, so if TLS members are getting them, they are the top applicants.

[rfhassan]

.

[Harvette]

I don't know if this is true for every LSAT administration ever, but we have published stats for many of the more recent administrations and by looking at the total number of AAs who took the test and the distribution numbers of that group, we can get a relatively clear picture of the number of people scoring in each range. We can't know if all the AAs bubbled in AA when they took the test (a requirement for the numbers to really be correct), so the prediction isn't perfect, but the numbers should be close.

Also, I do believe that many of the highest scoring AAs that apply are on this site. I think that is supported by some of the admissions cycles that are posted here (Yale acceptances, Ruby's, Dillards, RTKs, etc.). These outcomes are so rare that only the applicants with top credentials would be competitive for them, so if TLS members are getting them, they are the top applicants.

So are you saying the numbers on here are accurate?

[Harvette]

would an URM with an lsat score at or below the 25% LSAT of T14 schools still receive money, or would they get in but have to pay sticker price?

If we are looking at a school like hls where financial aid is need based and some URMs with lsat score as low as 15x have been accepted, then no they don't have to pay sticker. I have also seen some with low 16x lsat get into NYU on a full scholarship awarded because they were the first in their family to attend college.
Either way, it is always better to strive for the highest lsat score possible.

[top10hopeful]

edit*

[ltowns1]

I'm wondering has anyone done any research in regards to how these numbers that OP got together have changed if any? For example. I wonder what the acceptance percentage is in T-14 AA's who score 165+ in this years cycle?