URM 2016-2017 Cycle Thread Forum

[crookedsmile]

I think AA's are a rarity because there are a lot who have good LSATs but low gpas relative to t14 students and other AA students just don't apply to law school. It sucks

It's easier to get into law school being a URM with a 3.7+ than a 173. Jnwa didn't crack HYS. Someone with a 3.8 163 could do that.

There's a URM floating around here with a 3.7/164 that HAS already cracked Y & S so far.

[Hi-So - ArshavinFan]

I think AA's are a rarity because there are a lot who have good LSATs but low gpas relative to t14 students and other AA students just don't apply to law school. It sucks

It's easier to get into law school being a URM with a 3.7+ than a 173. Jnwa didn't crack HYS. Someone with a 3.8 163 could do that.

There's a URM floating around here with a 3.7/164 that HAS already cracked Y & S so far.

I know. I also know of sub 3.5 people who have cracked H. My argument is that they arent all posted here.
I also know of a barely 3 GPA sub 160 lsat that cracked a T14 school. He lurks here, doesnt post.

We have to be careful with the conclusions were drawing from a small subset of a small sample.

[dietcoke1]

I think AA's are a rarity because there are a lot who have good LSATs but low gpas relative to t14 students and other AA students just don't apply to law school. It sucks

It's easier to get into law school being a URM with a 3.7+ than a 173. Jnwa didn't crack HYS. Someone with a 3.8 163 could do that.

There's a URM floating around here with a 3.7/164 that HAS already cracked Y & S so far.

I also think we may under estimate the importance of undergraduates. Anecdotal evidence, but it seems to me that URM Ivey Leaguers get in to places where usually their stats would make it very difficult.

[crookedsmile]

I think AA's are a rarity because there are a lot who have good LSATs but low gpas relative to t14 students and other AA students just don't apply to law school. It sucks

It's easier to get into law school being a URM with a 3.7+ than a 173. Jnwa didn't crack HYS. Someone with a 3.8 163 could do that.

There's a URM floating around here with a 3.7/164 that HAS already cracked Y & S so far.

I also think we may under estimate the importance of undergraduates. Anecdotal evidence, but it seems to me that URM Ivey Leaguers get in to places where usually their stats would make it very difficult.

Based off anecdotal evidence I personally know of as well, I'd have to agree wholeheartedly with you dietcoke.

[chasima]

[brinicolec]

I think AA's are a rarity because there are a lot who have good LSATs but low gpas relative to t14 students and other AA students just don't apply to law school. It sucks

I heard from one of my professors that most AA's who graduate have sub 3.0 gpas.

Might be true

When he told me this, It made sense why schools would pick many AA's with High GPA's.

And lower Lsats. It makes sense. But I also think schools usually prefer students with higher gpas anyways.

Um, is this really true though? I mean jnwa's cycle from last year kinda throws this in the water. And i highly doubt that Higher GPA could offset a low LSAT THAT much. I mean yes, schools will take you, but I also think for an AA male, school will take a AA MAle with a 165+ any day of the week as long as GPA 3.0+ with some fantastic essays.

I should know, i put in a quick fast app in LATE january, early feb to duke and got priority reserve when I know they actually rejected a URM candidate.

I think the bigger problem is that there just arent enough AA's who score over 165+ on this test. Brinicole still got into 2 T-14s as is it, and will probably get into more.

I only have like two more T14 apps out though & the money from the one I've gotten scholly info from is non-existent, so I do think that the GPA makes things difficult. I'm also a female, and I suspect that there is a gender difference in the AA bump lol

[PrezRand]

I think AA's are a rarity because there are a lot who have good LSATs but low gpas relative to t14 students and other AA students just don't apply to law school. It sucks
It's easier to get into law school being a URM with a 3.7+ than a 173. Jnwa didn't crack HYS. Someone with a 3.8 163 could do that.

The key thing here is COULD.

First things first, you are deluded in thinking that if a Black/AA applicant got into Harvard with a low GPA, he would post it on LSN. I know one who has, and he definitely didnt.

Let's look at the facts: http://www.abarequireddisclosures.org/
If you look up Harvard for 2016, we know for a fact 33 AAs got in for their 1L year. We dont know all their GPA ( i only know one, but his GPA low, LSAT high - but he went to an Ivy though)

I'm willing to argue that most of the URM that list their stats or info on TLS/LSN are not Ivy league ( or even T15 schools on USNWR) - this really alters a LOT for their rest of us. For anybody else, it's not as possible. But it is indeed possible.

the one constant here, is that we dont know anything! We only can guess, but to really know is difficult.

I don't understand how the key thing here is "could". AAs at t14s normally have high gpas and low lsats relative to the other students. I'm not talking about a 158 score here. I'm talking about around a 160-165.

I am not deluded into anything. It is far more likely for a URM student to get in with a high gpa low lsat than with a low gpa high lsat. Men lie. Women lie. Numbers don't.






BTW: I'm not being rude, discouraging, or offending anyone. I never said it was bad that a 3.7 164 URM gets into a t14 school and even HYS.

[brinicolec]

In other news, I completely forgot that WUSTL has been holding my app hostage since the end of November. Lol.

[Mr_Chukes]

I think AA's are a rarity because there are a lot who have good LSATs but low gpas relative to t14 students and other AA students just don't apply to law school. It sucks
It's easier to get into law school being a URM with a 3.7+ than a 173. Jnwa didn't crack HYS. Someone with a 3.8 163 could do that.

The key thing here is COULD.

First things first, you are deluded in thinking that if a Black/AA applicant got into Harvard with a low GPA, he would post it on LSN. I know one who has, and he definitely didnt.

Let's look at the facts: http://www.abarequireddisclosures.org/
If you look up Harvard for 2016, we know for a fact 33 AAs got in for their 1L year. We dont know all their GPA ( i only know one, but his GPA low, LSAT high - but he went to an Ivy though)

I'm willing to argue that most of the URM that list their stats or info on TLS/LSN are not Ivy league ( or even T15 schools on USNWR) - this really alters a LOT for their rest of us. For anybody else, it's not as possible. But it is indeed possible.

the one constant here, is that we dont know anything! We only can guess, but to really know is difficult.

I don't understand how the key thing here is "could". AAs at t14s normally have high gpas and low lsats relative to the other students. I'm not talking about a 158 score here. I'm talking about around a 160-165.

I am not deluded into anything. It is far more likely for a URM student to get in with a high gpa low lsat than with a low gpa high lsat. Men lie. Women lie. Numbers don't.






BTW: I'm not being rude, discouraging, or offending anyone. I never said it was bad that a 3.7 164 URM gets into a t14 school and even HYS.

Yup I agree only positivity.

[brinicolec]

I think AA's are a rarity because there are a lot who have good LSATs but low gpas relative to t14 students and other AA students just don't apply to law school. It sucks

It's easier to get into law school being a URM with a 3.7+ than a 173. Jnwa didn't crack HYS. Someone with a 3.8 163 could do that.

There's a URM floating around here with a 3.7/164 that HAS already cracked Y & S so far.

I also think we may under estimate the importance of undergraduates. Anecdotal evidence, but it seems to me that URM Ivey Leaguers get in to places where usually their stats would make it very difficult.

Based off anecdotal evidence I personally know of as well, I'd have to agree wholeheartedly with you dietcoke.

I'm gonna guess part of that is because they're Ivy Leaguers to begin with, which is also hard for URMs to manage to do.

[Mr_Chukes]

In other news, I completely forgot that WUSTL has been holding my app hostage since the end of November. Lol.

I almost applied but I heard Saint Louis is hella racist lol.

[PrezRand]

In other news, I completely forgot that WUSTL has been holding my app hostage since the end of November. Lol.

I almost applied but I heard Saint Louis is hella racist lol.

I thought people only apply for money to leverage lol

[brinicolec]

In other news, I completely forgot that WUSTL has been holding my app hostage since the end of November. Lol.

I almost applied but I heard Saint Louis is hella racist lol.

In hindsight, I have no idea why I did but I'ma just ride this out lol.

Well, I lied. PrezRand is right. It was the $$$ thing. But then I thought about it, and if they're known for being overly-gracious with $$$, how would they be a good negotiation tool? Lol.

[crookedsmile]

In other news, I completely forgot that WUSTL has been holding my app hostage since the end of November. Lol.

I almost applied but I heard Saint Louis is hella racist lol.

In hindsight, I have no idea why I did but I'ma just ride this out lol.

Well, I lied. PrezRand is right. It was the $$$ thing. But then I thought about it, and if they're known for being overly-gracious with $$$, how would they be a good negotiation tool? Lol.

Did you interview or send a Why WUSTL? I was pretty sure I'd get in with some money and ended up getting WL. I'm almost positive it's because I showed little interest aside from my application.

[brinicolec]

In other news, I completely forgot that WUSTL has been holding my app hostage since the end of November. Lol.

I almost applied but I heard Saint Louis is hella racist lol.

In hindsight, I have no idea why I did but I'ma just ride this out lol.

Well, I lied. PrezRand is right. It was the $$$ thing. But then I thought about it, and if they're known for being overly-gracious with $$$, how would they be a good negotiation tool? Lol.

Did you interview or send a Why WUSTL? I was pretty sure I'd get in with some money and ended up getting WL. I'm almost positive it's because I showed little interest aside from my application.

Nope. They didn't request to interview me and I'm not writing a Why WUSTL because there is no why, but also, because like I said, I have no idea why I even put that app out there because even with money, it doesn't seem like a great bargaining chip.

I'm just waiting for them to make some kinda decision on it so I can keep it moving lol

[PrezRand]

In other news, I completely forgot that WUSTL has been holding my app hostage since the end of November. Lol.

I almost applied but I heard Saint Louis is hella racist lol.

In hindsight, I have no idea why I did but I'ma just ride this out lol.

Well, I lied. PrezRand is right. It was the $$$ thing. But then I thought about it, and if they're known for being overly-gracious with $$$, how would they be a good negotiation tool? Lol.

Did you interview or send a Why WUSTL? I was pretty sure I'd get in with some money and ended up getting WL. I'm almost positive it's because I showed little interest aside from my application.

Nope. They didn't request to interview me and I'm not writing a Why WUSTL because there is no why, but also, because like I said, I have no idea why I even put that app out there because even with money, it doesn't seem like a great bargaining chip.

I'm just waiting for them to make some kinda decision on it so I can keep it moving lol

Did you get fee waivers for your apps or did you just suck it up and pay the application fees?

[KillaKam92]

Anyone else still getting fee waivers from T14 schools?

[S.Picquery]

The silence is killing me. NU, HLS, Penn, UTX, please get it together and let me know if I'm in or out. At this point I can't even be mad I just want to know *hits head on wall, repeatedly*

[Mr_Chukes]

In other news, I completely forgot that WUSTL has been holding my app hostage since the end of November. Lol.

I almost applied but I heard Saint Louis is hella racist lol.

In hindsight, I have no idea why I did but I'ma just ride this out lol.

Well, I lied. PrezRand is right. It was the $$$ thing. But then I thought about it, and if they're known for being overly-gracious with $$$, how would they be a good negotiation tool? Lol.

Did you interview or send a Why WUSTL? I was pretty sure I'd get in with some money and ended up getting WL. I'm almost positive it's because I showed little interest aside from my application.

Nope. They didn't request to interview me and I'm not writing a Why WUSTL because there is no why, but also, because like I said, I have no idea why I even put that app out there because even with money, it doesn't seem like a great bargaining chip.

I'm just waiting for them to make some kinda decision on it so I can keep it moving lol

Did you get fee waivers for your apps or did you just suck it up and pay the application fees?

I got a fee waiver from every top 25 school except texas, columbia, NYU, and of course Yale lol.

[Mr_Chukes]

The silence is killing me. NU, HLS, Penn, UTX, please get it together and let me know if I'm in or out. At this point I can't even be mad I just want to know *hits head on wall, repeatedly*

Yeah I have 6 more NU, BU, ND, UCLA, UCB, and Stanford. At least I know when I will hear back for Berkeley.

[crookedsmile]

Who has started to trim down their list from their initial pool of potential schools? I know for a lot of us money is the biggest factor so as scholarship offers start to roll in, I know certain schools I've been admitted to are just not going to happen for me

[Hi-So - ArshavinFan]

I think AA's are a rarity because there are a lot who have good LSATs but low gpas relative to t14 students and other AA students just don't apply to law school. It sucks
It's easier to get into law school being a URM with a 3.7+ than a 173. Jnwa didn't crack HYS. Someone with a 3.8 163 could do that.

The key thing here is COULD.

First things first, you are deluded in thinking that if a Black/AA applicant got into Harvard with a low GPA, he would post it on LSN. I know one who has, and he definitely didnt.

Let's look at the facts: http://www.abarequireddisclosures.org/
If you look up Harvard for 2016, we know for a fact 33 AAs got in for their 1L year. We dont know all their GPA ( i only know one, but his GPA low, LSAT high - but he went to an Ivy though)

I'm willing to argue that most of the URM that list their stats or info on TLS/LSN are not Ivy league ( or even T15 schools on USNWR) - this really alters a LOT for their rest of us. For anybody else, it's not as possible. But it is indeed possible.

the one constant here, is that we dont know anything! We only can guess, but to really know is difficult.

I don't understand how the key thing here is "could". AAs at t14s normally have high gpas and low lsats relative to the other students. I'm not talking about a 158 score here. I'm talking about around a 160-165 ( Clear case of confirmation bias here again)

I am not deluded into anything. It is far more likely for a URM student to get in with a high gpa low lsat than with a low gpa high lsat. Men lie. Women lie. Numbers don't. ( Again, Confirmation bias)

What numbers though?????? - How many people with sub 3.5 or ( even sub 3.3 GPA URMS --- particularly AA ones-- post on myLSN to T14? You don't know. You're making assumptions based off of what you see on this site. But you don't have access to all the numbers.. How can you just make assumptions. Thats incredulous. Also, to believe that everyones numbers/profile on myLSN is factual either??? - I'm not willing to make that bet.

Your theory would seem to be true for an applicant who is KJD ( or 1-2 avg WE) & did not go to a T20 School or top 5 LAC, yes, I agree with you there. But from what I know about these schools, these kids can get in with even sub 3 GPA into T14 schools - and trust me, they wont post about it on here.

What I'm trying to point out ( i'm not sure that youre seeing it), is that its not clearcut that all ( even most) T14 schools prefer GPA over LSAT for URMs - in particular AA's ( lets say 3.7 /160 v 3.3/170 or even 3.2/165 in my case). It's just that they will accept the high GPAs as there is wayyy more of them. I'm willing to bet that if there was ever more than about 100 AA who scored a 165+ who had 3.2 GPAs or higher, that mechanism would totally change. In any case, i'm sure higher GPA is correlated with higher LSAT anyway, so either way - both splitters are under-performing. That's the fact.

You're making absolute statements based on hypotheses which aren't factually proven. And that's dangerous on this sub. Because that only discourages people from posting on this forum which would hep us analyze this more closely. Particularly people who have gotten in with low GPA/LSAT. That's where the negativity comes in. You aren't directly being negative, but it can be discouraging.

[brinicolec]

In other news, I completely forgot that WUSTL has been holding my app hostage since the end of November. Lol.

I almost applied but I heard Saint Louis is hella racist lol.

In hindsight, I have no idea why I did but I'ma just ride this out lol.

Well, I lied. PrezRand is right. It was the $$$ thing. But then I thought about it, and if they're known for being overly-gracious with $$$, how would they be a good negotiation tool? Lol.

Did you interview or send a Why WUSTL? I was pretty sure I'd get in with some money and ended up getting WL. I'm almost positive it's because I showed little interest aside from my application.

Nope. They didn't request to interview me and I'm not writing a Why WUSTL because there is no why, but also, because like I said, I have no idea why I even put that app out there because even with money, it doesn't seem like a great bargaining chip.

I'm just waiting for them to make some kinda decision on it so I can keep it moving lol

Did you get fee waivers for your apps or did you just suck it up and pay the application fees?

I got a fee waiver from every top 25 school except texas, columbia, NYU, and of course Yale lol.

I only paid for HLS & Berkeley... I think.

[brinicolec]

Who has started to trim down their list from their initial pool of potential schools? I know for a lot of us money is the biggest factor so as scholarship offers start to roll in, I know certain schools I've been admitted to are just not going to happen for me

I kicked Michigan off the list as soon as they said no money lol.

[sfn91]

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... law+school

The chart on the first page. It's interesting that about half have a larger percentage of AA students. UVA, PENN, Michigan, Duke, Columbia and Georgetown, and the rest are actually about equal besides Stanford Berkeley and Chicago which heavily have more Hispanic.

Does anyone know if this data is limited to PR/MA? Because if not there can't be that many more hispanics total at t14. It doesn't add up.

I feel pretty confident this does not only include MA/PR. This is totally based on my obsessive data-crunching of the last couple of cycles and observations at BL firm events and discussions with other POC law students/lawyers, but it seems like most if not all T14 schools except Berkeley/UCLA will still count white-passing, wealthy Colombians/Venezuelans/Cubans or the non-Spanish-speaking 1/4 MAs without strong cultural ties as "URM Hispanics." Trust me there aren't 300+ people in T14s from el barrio.

Yes, it's true. I know several 1/2 or 1/4 Latino students personally with non-Hispanic last names who've gotten the boost. And the representation of Latinos who are not South American/Cuban is very low. Latinos in TLS skew heavily toward otherwise over-represented groups.