LGBTQ C/O 2020 Forum

[KateMcKitten]

Am I the only one who found that line about how gays have made outstanding contributions to society a bit bizarre? Social interest of protecting individuals against discrimination should not be linked to this sort of analysis of social benefit, even if it's some tangential concern, since it can be misconstrued later.

YES YES YES I was like, soooo only the elite deserve protections? It's a-ok to discriminate against average Joes (regardless of race/gender/sex/sexuality/etc.) because they're not a mover and shaker?

[Monday]

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[Po$eidon]

Am I the only one who found that line about how gays have made outstanding contributions to society a bit bizarre? Social interest of protecting individuals against discrimination should not be linked to this sort of analysis of social benefit, even if it's some tangential concern, since it can be misconstrued later.

Yeah it implies an almost quid pro quo requirement for legal protection as if equal treatment and respect under the law is contingent in some way upon being generally good citizens. Even if not one LGBT person had ever done anything to advance society rights should be protected - there is no necessary link there imo

[KateMcKitten]

Am I the only one who found that line about how gays have made outstanding contributions to society a bit bizarre? Social interest of protecting individuals against discrimination should not be linked to this sort of analysis of social benefit, even if it's some tangential concern, since it can be misconstrued later.

Yeah it implies an almost quid pro quo requirement for legal protection as if equal treatment and respect under the law is contingent in some way upon being generally good citizens. Even if not one LGBT person had ever done anything to advance society rights should be protected - there is no necessary link there imo

+10000

[sfn91]

"Homosexuality is nothing worse than failing to fulfill stereotypical gender roles." -Posner's concurring opinion on Hively v. Ivy Tech Community College

Thoughts? I think that's a really odd and unique way of putting it, personally.

I think it's odd as a general statement, but in the context of the opinion/legalese it makes complete sense and doesn't sound that weird. A lot of discrimination against LGBT people is due to the failure to conform to gender stereotypes/roles, which has its basis in sex. A lesbian who is fired for being a lesbian is not much different than a woman being discriminated against because of non-conformance to other gender-role expectations. It's pretty much because of the non-conformance that she's being discriminated against.

Totally fair; it is out of context and I do very much appreciate the rest of the paragraph. However, it's the conclusion of the paragraph so it should be able to stand more or less on its own, IMO. As a femme lesbian, I adhere to almost all the gender roles placed on me, so it's hard for me to see it as gender role nonconformity. Although I do see how more outwardly queer people would have that line blurred.

Here is the context btw:

But it has taken our courts and our society a considerable while to realize that sexual harassment, which has been pervasive in many workplaces (including many Capitol Hill offices and, notoriously, Fox News, among many other institutions), is a form of sex discrimination. It has taken a little longer for realization to dawn that discrimination based on a woman's failure to fulfill stereotypical gender roles is also a form of sex discrimination. And it has taken still longer, with a substantial volume of cases struggling and failing to maintain a plausible, defensible line between sex discrimination and sexual-orientation discrimination, to realize that homosexuality is nothing worse than failing to fulfill stereotypical gender roles

I hear you - I think I also fit most gender roles and expectations as well. I guess by definition the fact that you're not with a man is defying gender roles. So discrimination based on your same-sex relationship would be discrimination against your sex and the expectations inherent by the norms imposed on it by society.

Sidenote: I love how they called out Fox News.

[sfn91]

Also, I can't wait to read opinions one day by y'all. They're gonna be lit.

[KateMcKitten]

Also, I can't wait to read opinions one day by y'all. They're gonna be lit.

All of mine will have vague queer media references in them so future generations of queer law students can go "wait...is that...?"

[Monday]

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[Rigo]

Few more weeks for Sense 8 Season 2...

Can we date so I can mooch your Netflix?
I'm more of a Prime guy.

[oopsu812]

Also, I can't wait to read opinions one day by y'all. They're gonna be lit.

All of mine will have vague queer media references in them so future generations of queer law students can go "wait...is that...?"

Can't wait to see a tongue pop in onomatopoeia form.

[KateMcKitten]

Few more weeks for Sense 8 Season 2...

Can we date so I can mooch your Netflix?
I'm more of a Prime guy.

This a queer show? I'm always looking for them and this is not on my radar.

[Monday]

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[Rigo]

Rigo what do you watch on Prime?

Transparent, obviously.
I love Catastrophe. Check that one out everyone!

I watch reruns of HBO shows on it too. Currently into The Wire.

[KateMcKitten]

Rigo what do you watch on Prime?

Transparent, obviously.
I love Catastrophe. Check that one out everyone!

I watch reruns of HBO shows on it too. Currently into The Wire.

I love watching Transparent even though I hate every single character on the show. It's basically hatewatching.

Also my gf and I just had strokes when we realized Transparent is about a trans parent. Like. How did we watch 2 seasons and never realize this we dumb as shit.

[Rigo]

I love watching Transparent even though I hate every single character on the show. It's basically hatewatching.
Also my gf and I just had strokes when we realized Transparent is about a trans parent. Like. How did we watch 2 seasons and never realize this we dumb as shit.

Yeah my mind was blown when I realized that. (It took me awhile too)
And yeah each character is definitely hateable but also super human and relatable (at least to me, but I'm also a pretty flawed person) so I think it just captures the human condition really well in a lowkey powerful way.

I also love that each season gets better imo. Season 2 subject matter was just really cool. Season 3 really spoke to me with the whole "what now?" theme.

Ahh I just love that show. Jill Soloway is such a talent.

[snarfing]

Do people ITT know where they're going yet?

probably fordham, you?

[Rigo]

Do people ITT know where they're going yet?

probably fordham, you?

Cool. They had a solid employment report the other day.
And no idea. Probably just going to ride some preftigious waitlists and backpack around the country. Finding NeverLawnd &c.

[KateMcKitten]

Do people ITT know where they're going yet?

probably fordham, you?

Cool. They had a solid employment report the other day.
And no idea. Probably just going to ride some preftigious waitlists and backpack around the country. Finding NeverLawnd &c.

For your LOCI you should let them know that you are *the* Rigo of fame from TLS. They'll immediately send you an acceptance and fat financial aid offer.

[Rigo]

For your LOCI you should let them know that you are *the* Rigo of fame from TLS. They'll immediately send you an acceptance and fat financial aid offer.

I've considered posting a lot of outing info in school threads to subtly let them know, but then everyone else would know what I am too.

Tbf, you could piece together who I am if someone cared (they don't).

[elf852]

**Please don't quote**

Hi, I thought maybe you guys could provide some insight since a lot of the main threads tend to automatically dismiss LGBTQ QOL concerns...

I've narrowed my choices down to UVA (*removed for privacy* scholarship) and Georgetown (*removed for privacy* scholarship) for generic DC biglaw goals, but really concerned about being one of only a handful of LGBTQ people in Charlottesville. I feel kind of ridiculous for even considering something like this when choosing a school, but this decision has been eating me up. Anyone have any insight into UVA culture / LGBTQ life there? Or similar experiences factoring in city vs. small town life in their decision? Thanks

[KateMcKitten]

Hey friend! I don't think it's ridiculous at all--it's one of the first things we discussed in this thread, too. How could you do well in law school if you don't feel safe or accepted? Definitely a big factor.

My family is all from Virginia and West Virginia and I've spent a great deal of time there. While it's not going to be as rainbow flag-flying as the DC area, Charlottesville definitely has a queer friendly reputation (I think partially since it's a college town.) There's a Lambda Legal group at UVA to find other queer law students, as well as several undergrad/college-wide gay groups. Also there's apparently a gay club, so there's at least enough of a gay scene to keep that open.

[Monday]

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[KateMcKitten]

UVA. It'll actually take active effort on your part to venture out of the UVA bubble, which is rather large if you include all the other graduate and undergraduate students, and UVA has solid LGBTQ numbers as well as a dedicated LGBTQ Center. I'm actually surprised by your concerns re Charlottesville. Sure, it's not SF or NYC but it's also not Monowi, Nebraska.

+1 or Lynchburg, VA

[NonTradHealthLaw]

Hey kittens, unicorns, otters, dykes, and baby lawyers from all corners of the LGBTQ zoo. You're taking your first step on an exciting journey and I hope you enjoy every day of it.

Make an effort to find a LGBTQ lawyer mentor in your community. They will help a lot in navigating school and jobs and meeting other people who can keep you in mind for opportunities.

I'm always happy to be a resource here or PM or in person in Chicago if you want a sarcastic midlevel biglaw transactional associate's perspective.

[elf852]

UVA. It'll actually take active effort on your part to venture out of the UVA bubble, which is rather large if you include all the other graduate and undergraduate students, and UVA has solid LGBTQ numbers as well as a dedicated LGBTQ Center. I'm actually surprised by your concerns re Charlottesville. Sure, it's not SF or NYC but it's also not Monowi, Nebraska.

+1 or Lynchburg, VA

Thanks guys I was leaning that way, just needed a little assurance