William and Mary vs Washington and Lee? Forum

[misformafia]

(1) TLS says (@ http://www.top-law-schools.com/law-scho ... cy.html#va):

To be considered as a Virginia resident, you must live ("domicile" as they put it, meaning either you or your spouse owns property or has their name on the lease of a property in Virginia) within the State of Virginia for 12 months prior to the first day of classes for the semester in which you'd like to be getting in-state tuition. You must also demonstrate your intent to remain in Virginia by doing the usual things: Paying state income taxes in VA, getting a VA driver's license, etc. Being a Virginia resident also slightly boosts the likelihood of getting into University of Virginia, as 40% of admitted students must be Virginia residents. Those very focused on attending UVA may consider spending one year in D.C. and living in nearby Arlington, VA. William & Mary is also an excellent public law school in Virginia.

(2) UVA has some helpful info (as it's also, obviously, a state school): http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/prospectives/va.htm

(3) The state also provides some helpful info: http://www.tax.virginia.gov/site.cfm?al ... ARESIDENTS


EDIT: I forgot - my roommate just established residency. He's a 2L, and just got his new license. It doesn't matter at W&L, but he was able to do it after his 1L year. I dunno if that helps, lol.

[gregw8705]

I second this. A W&M alum told me that it was cake to get in state residency after the first year.

Maybe I'm wrong then. I was under the impression that it wasn't as easy to establish residency in VA as it is in states like Ohio.

I recall being told that VA wants to see more than merely showing up for school, but maybe they take things like driver's licenses, voting registration, etc. as evidence of that. I'm a VA native, so it's never been something I researched much because my in-state status is a lock (20+ years in the state, only ever worked and voted here, etc.).

If you can establish residency after a year of school, go for it. The lower your debt after graduation the better.

[misformafia]

I second this. A W&M alum told me that it was cake to get in state residency after the first year.

Maybe I'm wrong then. I was under the impression that it wasn't as easy to establish residency in VA as it is in states like Ohio.

I recall being told that VA wants to see more than merely showing up for school, but maybe they take things like driver's licenses, voting registration, etc. as evidence of that. I'm a VA native, so it's never been something I researched much because my in-state status is a lock (20+ years in the state, only ever worked and voted here, etc.).

If you can establish residency after a year of school, go for it. The lower your debt after graduation the better.

You're not that off base. Don't sweat it. As far as states go it's one of the more difficult (see the links above).

[Doritos]

I second this. A W&M alum told me that it was cake to get in state residency after the first year.

Maybe I'm wrong then. I was under the impression that it wasn't as easy to establish residency in VA as it is in states like Ohio.

I recall being told that VA wants to see more than merely showing up for school, but maybe they take things like driver's licenses, voting registration, etc. as evidence of that. I'm a VA native, so it's never been something I researched much because my in-state status is a lock (20+ years in the state, only ever worked and voted here, etc.).

If you can establish residency after a year of school, go for it. The lower your debt after graduation the better.

I know thats what I read too. Thats why i was surprised when the alumni told me that it was easy (she herself did it and so the alumni's roommate). Maybe it was a ploy to get me to go there (i doubt that) but that is what I was told by a real deal W&M grad. Take anecdotal evidence w/ a grain of salt I say. I would contact admissions folk at both schools

[Borhas]

As someone with no biases prior to this cycle I'm going to buck the trend and say I'd pick W&L 9 times out of ten. W&L is a little more expensive but I'd say it's viewed as a little more prestigous, they offer similar placement and the area around Lexington is absolutely perfect (Lynchburg is less than an hour away so it isn't THAT far from major cities). It just seems like the overall feel I get from W&L is better than that of W&M, but to be fair I know more of W&L. Either way both are great schools.

Lynchburg as a major city? That's a new one

[Doritos]

As someone with no biases prior to this cycle I'm going to buck the trend and say I'd pick W&L 9 times out of ten. W&L is a little more expensive but I'd say it's viewed as a little more prestigous, they offer similar placement and the area around Lexington is absolutely perfect (Lynchburg is less than an hour away so it isn't THAT far from major cities). It just seems like the overall feel I get from W&L is better than that of W&M, but to be fair I know more of W&L. Either way both are great schools.

Lynchburg as a major city? That's a new one

population = 72,596. If thats not a major city I don't know what is, sir.

[misformafia]

As someone with no biases prior to this cycle I'm going to buck the trend and say I'd pick W&L 9 times out of ten. W&L is a little more expensive but I'd say it's viewed as a little more prestigous, they offer similar placement and the area around Lexington is absolutely perfect (Lynchburg is less than an hour away so it isn't THAT far from major cities). It just seems like the overall feel I get from W&L is better than that of W&M, but to be fair I know more of W&L. Either way both are great schools.

Lynchburg as a major city? That's a new one

population = 72,596. If thats not a major city I don't know what is, sir.

Regardless of the population (72K is not very big) no one goes to Lynchburg unless they're flying home. People occasionally go to Roanoke to shop, but the only MAJOR cities/ destinations w/e are Richmond, Charlottesville and DC. W&M has more stuff to do no doubt, but the question is, how much does that really matter when you're in law school? In my experience you don't have time to mess around in huge cities. Aside the bars at night or on the weekends you usually stay close to the school. It's hard to take even one full day off of law, so when people go out it's not like a 3 day trip to a big city - at least not on such a regular basis that it justifies living in a big place purely for that reason. It's like, "let's go out, then get home so we can wake up tomorrow and study/ work etc."

[xanderdellus]

In undergrad at W&M, we hung out with a lot of law students regularly in the bars, including the top student in her class. We road tripped to the beach and Richmond on a semi-regular basis.

I went to high school outside of Lynchburg and it is a hole whose only major industry was Jerry Falwell's televangelism. I haven't been back in nearly 10 years, but I doubt it's changed much.

[Borhas]

As someone with no biases prior to this cycle I'm going to buck the trend and say I'd pick W&L 9 times out of ten. W&L is a little more expensive but I'd say it's viewed as a little more prestigous, they offer similar placement and the area around Lexington is absolutely perfect (Lynchburg is less than an hour away so it isn't THAT far from major cities). It just seems like the overall feel I get from W&L is better than that of W&M, but to be fair I know more of W&L. Either way both are great schools.

Lynchburg as a major city? That's a new one

population = 72,596. If thats not a major city I don't know what is, sir.

well, it's a city I'll give you that, but I've been to lynchburg, it's got some high rises, some companies based there, but all of that is an area of like 16 blocks. I'd classify it as a small city. When I think of a major city, I think of Washington DC, Baltimore, Philly, New York, Boston etc

[Bankhead]

William and Mary

[fphoenix85]

I grew up in Lexington, went to W&M undergrad for 2 years, then transferred to W&L for my last two years (best decision ever). FWIW I also went to UVA for grad school so I could also comment on that (though unlike undergrad, it's not a peer with W&M/W&L).

My, though perhaps somewhat biased opinion, is to go to W&L. The law students I've met generally seemed happy, and a lot of people go from W&L undergrad straight to law school. You have to ask yourself if you can stomach a small town and essentially a total lack of nightlife; frat parties are kind of the social highlight even for many non-Greeks, but law students and undergrads don't tend to mix socially (though it happens, for example through the ultimate frisbee club team). I happen to know a fair number of law professors at the school quite well and not only are they very intelligent but also really really really nice, down-to-earth people. The school as a whole has a definite conservative bent, even more so than UVA (while W&M's is slightly liberal), but that's tempered a lot at the LS side. I can't comment really on W&M LS, while at the school I only met a couple students there (who seemed great btw), and I've known others who went there, but my guess is there's a little less of a "personal" feel to it. Nightlife isn't so great in Williamsburg either, but it does beat Lexington, and is somewhat closer to more "major" cities (Lynchburg doesn't count, if you've been there you know that haha).

As someone else mentioned, W&L does do a lot of placements in the south, while my guess is W&M grads tend to go to DC/NOVA (somewhat similar to their undergrad trends). Obviously neither one is a national powerhouse but they will both be recognized as respected schools by any competent employer. From what I know, W&L has traditionally had a little better name value though I realize W&M just passed it in the rankings. If anyone has any questions, feel free to PM me.

[ruleser]

It's just odd that there are two schools, almost identical in location and ranking, that both have names that are three words, the first of which starts with W and the second of which is 'and'. Seems like the two should just duke it out and whoever wins gets to remain.

[flcath]

It's just odd that there are two schools, almost identical in location and ranking, that both have names that are three words, the first of which starts with W and the second of which is 'and'. Seems like the two should just duke it out and whoever wins gets to remain.

That's scheduled for 2011, provided Law School Smackdown 2010 (Boston College v. Boston University) goes well.

[Doritos]

As someone with no biases prior to this cycle I'm going to buck the trend and say I'd pick W&L 9 times out of ten. W&L is a little more expensive but I'd say it's viewed as a little more prestigous, they offer similar placement and the area around Lexington is absolutely perfect (Lynchburg is less than an hour away so it isn't THAT far from major cities). It just seems like the overall feel I get from W&L is better than that of W&M, but to be fair I know more of W&L. Either way both are great schools.

Lynchburg as a major city? That's a new one

population = 72,596. If thats not a major city I don't know what is, sir.

well, it's a city I'll give you that, but I've been to lynchburg, it's got some high rises, some companies based there, but all of that is an area of like 16 blocks. I'd classify it as a small city. When I think of a major city, I think of Washington DC, Baltimore, Philly, New York, Boston etc

i was kidding

[holydonkey]

RE: VA domicile

I have a decent amount of experience with this. For the record, although Virginia's Council of Higher Education sets a general domicile guideline, schools have some room to interpret the policy. There are three public law schools in Virginia, UVA, William & Mary, and George Mason. Washington & Lee is Private (as are U Richmond, Liberty, Regent, etc).

For the public schools, the general things they will look at when determining domicile include location of residence for 1 year, your place of employment for 1 year, where you have paid taxes for the past year, your driver's license, voter's registration, and vehicle registration. For each of these schools, you cannot claim VA domicile your second year - you must enter classified as a VA resident to receive in-state benefits.

While all of the above requirements must be "considered" when determining domicile, each school decides how much they will weigh each requirement and how many of the above things must be fulfilled to be classified in-state. This means it is certainly possible to be classified in-state at UVA and out-of-state at George Mason, in-state at GMU and out-of-state at William & Mary. From what I've heard George Mason generally has the least stringent requirements for domicile, UVA is somewhere in the middle, and William & Mary is the most difficult.


As for W&L v. W&M, they're both great schools. If you're in-state, W&M seems like it would be a lot cheaper. If you get classified as out-of-state W&M is still a bit cheaper, but W&L gives out much more aid. I'd be happy at either place.

/would be happier still at UVA.

[T14_Scholly]

Although I've never been to W&L or W&M and haven't even set foot in the state of Virginia, my passing impression based on others' internet forum postings is that W&L has more lay prestige than W&M. FWIW.