UVA tuition free or stanford/harvard full tuition Forum

[gcf3f]

is it worth paying full tuition at stanford or harvard if i can go to uva tuition free? i want to go into public service so i probably wont make a ton after graduation

[Pumpkin]

substitute michigan for UVA and i am in your exact same position, contemplating harvard and committed to public interest. no clue what to tell you, i really can't decide.

[Rocky Estoppel]

UVA

[gcf3f]

why so definitely uva?? just b/c debt sucks ?

[High LSAT / Low uGPA]

It's just a matter of whether Harvard is worth an extra $120k for you. Not having that debt allows a freedom in life that is nice, but it's not the biggest price to pay for a Harvard JD. I would go with the lower debt.

[Pumpkin]

if you talk to anyone from harvard, they'll tell you the debt doesn't matter and that you'll get the 3rd year of tuition free if you commit to public interest. Which still doesn't change the fact that in one case, you are making considerable payments for 10 years and the other... you just aren't.

ack, i feel your pain.

[Pearalegal]

Aw man, thats tough. Probably UVA. I don't know much about Harvard's PI debt programs, but it seems just safer to go with UVA. You don't want to be moving your way through payments until your late 30s.

I can't imagine how hard it would be for me to turn down Harvard though.

[azlawlady]

I would go with UVA in your situation. Although Harvard/Stanford have the name, but UVA is also an amazing school (from what I've read and heard) and to go debt free makes it an even better choice.

[A'nold]

Harvard for sure.

[lucydog]

Harvard

[Pumpkin]

ha, my exact point. everyone has a definitive, completely different opinion on this. i'm leaning harvard at the moment but that's only b/c i talked to a harvard prof yesterday who seemed really cool

[legends159]

for public interest, i'm not so sure there are any doors closed to a UVA/Mich grad that is open to a Harvard grad. I think it all comes down to how much personal prestige matters to you.

If you look at UVA's website, they have many Skadden fellows, which arguably is the most prestigious fellowship for those interested in PI.

[masterpinky0509]

Depends on what you want to do.

If you want to do public interest as one of the above posters stated, then being debt-free really helps. You should check out "Broken Contract," an interesting book on HLS that describes how the large debt load and prestige obsession of many HLS'ers sort of 'infects' them with the desire to go into corporate law. It basically looks at how, upon entry into law school, something like 70% claim to be going for public interest; 3 years later, they all go work for Wachtell.

On the other hand, if you want to go BigLaw or something of the sort, then HLS will make that path a lot smoother -- and the money you make will make up for the debt quickly.

[paratactical]

.

[legends159]

Depends on what you want to do.

If you want to do public interest as one of the above posters stated, then being debt-free really helps. You should check out "Broken Contract," an interesting book on HLS that describes how the large debt load and prestige obsession of many HLS'ers sort of 'infects' them with the desire to go into corporate law. It basically looks at how, upon entry into law school, something like 70% claim to be going for public interest; 3 years later, they all go work for Wachtell.

QFT!

If PI is really your thing, then cracking the T14 is arguably sufficient.

[Cal4future]

Depends on what you want to do.

If you want to do public interest as one of the above posters stated, then being debt-free really helps. You should check out "Broken Contract," an interesting book on HLS that describes how the large debt load and prestige obsession of many HLS'ers sort of 'infects' them with the desire to go into corporate law. It basically looks at how, upon entry into law school, something like 70% claim to be going for public interest; 3 years later, they all go work for Wachtell.

On the other hand, if you want to go BigLaw or something of the sort, then HLS will make that path a lot smoother -- and the money you make will make up for the debt quickly.

+1

Also, if you are considering academia you might want to spring the extra cash for Harvard.

[Pumpkin]

for public interest, i'm not so sure there are any doors closed to a UVA/Mich grad that is open to a Harvard grad. I think it all comes down to how much personal prestige matters to you.

I'm not so sure this is true. the pubic interest field is actually much more obsessed with prestige than people think. my contacts in the public interest field all say the same thing, since there are fewer cool jobs, where you go really matters.

[legends159]

for public interest, i'm not so sure there are any doors closed to a UVA/Mich grad that is open to a Harvard grad. I think it all comes down to how much personal prestige matters to you.

I'm not so sure this is true. the pubic interest field is actually much more obsessed with prestige than people think. my contacts in the public interest field all say the same thing, since there are fewer cool jobs, where you go really matters.

Well I don't have any facts to back it up, but I assume that going to UVA/Mich will afford you the same opportunities as going to HYS in terms of PI. If you hear otherwise, then you have to determine if that's the norm or the exception. If you ask enough people and it seems to be the norm that unless you go to Harvard you cannot work for some NGO, say the ACLU, then determine how heavily that opportunity is worth to you.

It just seems ridiculous that PI NGOs would care more about your pedigree (and we're comparing a 1-3 ranked school vs a 7-8) than your body of work and commitment.

[Pumpkin]

i agree that its ridiculous, but they were emphatic that it DID make a difference whether it was harvard or a lower top 10 school, particularly for places like the ACLU. i've gotten the same advice from 5-6 different people now.

Not all public interest jobs are like this but the big name ones are apparently. i don't disagree that you could totally make it happen with uva or michigan (which is why i'm still heavily considering michigan), just that being public interest-focused doesn't eliminate at all the importance of a school's rank and reputation.

[gcf3f]

what about stanford vs harvard

[azlawlady]

what about stanford vs harvard

I think that decision just comes down to east coast vs. west coast. Maybe with a comparison of LRAPs.

[Pumpkin]

i didn't apply to stanford so i dont' know. i assume the opportunities are pretty similar, the big difference for me was harvard's paying for the 3rd year of tuition if you commit to PI. chops off a big chunk of debt

ps don't mean to totally dominate this thread. but this dilemma is literally all i've been thinking about since i got offered the darrow at michigan.

[pomona]

if you talk to anyone from harvard, they'll tell you the debt doesn't matter and that you'll get the 3rd year of tuition free if you commit to public interest. Which still doesn't change the fact that in one case, you are making considerable payments for 10 years and the other... you just aren't.

ack, i feel your pain.

Unless the OP has savings/other resources to pay for COL and other expenses (books, school fees, insurance, etc.) for the 3 years of law school, wouldn't they still be paying off that debt 10 years after graduation?

I realize ~180k+ (full price Harvard) is a lot more than ~$50k debt (rough guess), but $50k is is still quite a lot of debt for a school that doesn't have anywhere near the same reputation as Harvard.

I personally would go with Harvard.

[acr0504]

Harvard!

[sluggo]

OP,

Probably Harvard, but it depends where you'd be happier for those 3 years and how positive you are that you want to do PI.

A couple of things to consider: the difference is going to be ~80k not 120 and a significant portion of that 80k will be forgiven through Harvard's LIPP. You'd have to run some numbers with hypothetical starting salaries for PI to figure out what the marginal cost of the Harvard degree will be. This number will assume greater importance the more positive you are of wanting to do PI.

If you want to clerk, Harvard would be worth it.

If you want to have a shot at academia at some point, Harvard would be worth it.

If you are considering the possibility of doing big law for a couple of years to gain experience/contacts, Harvard would be worth it.

If you are thinking about gov't work, Harvard.

If you are thinking about working internationally, Harvard.

If you are thinking about working in a non-law field at some point, Harvard.


I suppose someone could make an argument that if all you cared about was money/big law, then you might just take the free ride at UVA but with the economy as it is and a friend from UVA saying that she and classmates were struggling for 2L employment, I'd say Harvard is the better choice.