UC Hastings VS UC Davis Forum

[algren]

To the out of state question: I live in Chicago, and am originally from Ohio, and I'll be applying to both of these schools. If you're interested in them, and NoCal sounds like a cool place to live, I'd recommend you do the same

Also, I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who posted here. This is a really great, informative thread and since I'm from halfway across the country and don't have a lot of knowledge about the area, it has helped to answer a LOT of questions for me. TLS rules.

[rkitten]

Some of the highest paying firms in SF recruit heavily from the top students out of Hastings. Check out Shartsis Friese's attorneys.

[aggies215]

I'm from SF, and I'm currently a UG at davis. Anyone who tells you that Davis is ugly is just flat out wrong. the town itself is beautiful (except when its pouring, as it is now) and they're putting up new buildings by the bunches with all the land we have up here. it's pretty quiet, but if you really need to party (which you probably shouldnt anyway) sac isn't too far, about a 15-20 minute drive. Going to school up here will make it difficult to get anywhere outside of sac from what i've heard from some friends at the law school. Hasting's campus feels pretty sterile, but that's to be expected since it can only build up from the land it has. I think the main component to a decision between the two has to pretty much come down to where you'd like to work. San Francisco is a great city, and Davis has it's charms. everyone says we're an ag school, but really that's only maybe 1/8th of the student population. our business type major is under the ag sci college label, so that skews things a little bit. 1/4 of the students are biology majors, and the rest are distributed like you'd find at any other big UC.

[anxiousaboutschool]

Not sure how everybody else feels, but I'm concerned about Hastings' transfer agreements. UC Hastings has agreements set up with USF and GG where top performers in their first year are accepted to UCH as transfer students. Hastings' student body is ~15% USF and GG transfers, which is one reason why it's so competitive. It tends to lack the intellectual discourse that I've heard Davis has, and instead focuses on workload and rewards hard working, yet less rigorous thinkers, like the USF and GG transfers.... just something to consider. Oh course, biglaw looks highly on such workers, as long as you place top 10%.

[Great Satchmo]

Not sure how everybody else feels, but I'm concerned about Hastings' transfer agreements. UC Hastings has agreements set up with USF and GG where top performers in their first year are accepted to UCH as transfer students. Hastings' student body is ~15% USF and GG transfers, which is one reason why it's so competitive. It tends to lack the intellectual discourse that I've heard Davis has, and instead focuses on workload and rewards hard working, yet less rigorous thinkers, like the USF and GG transfers.... just something to consider. Oh course, biglaw looks highly on such workers, as long as you place top 10%.

What is this agreement? Do you just mean that GG and USF students regularly transfer? Or is there an actual arrangement where if you meet certain criteria, you are likely/for sure accepted as a transfer?

[20160810]

Some of the highest paying firms in SF recruit heavily from the top students out of Hastings. Check out Shartsis Friese's attorneys.

Just about all the same firms recruit from UCD. Job prospects out of both schools are nearly identical.

[Rory1987]

bump

[ghoti529]

Any new comments now that UCD is 28 and UCH is 41 in the new ranking?

[Borhas]

bump? really dude?

[Great Satchmo]

Oh thank god we have a Hastings vs. Davis thread, I was afraid this discussion was going to get swept under the carpet.

[Jchouu]

the ranking is pretty nuts. I got rejected from UCH and waitlisted at UCD (if i get in i'm goin for sure, fingers crossed). but if it were an all things equal choice, I would still consider hastings over davis just because I'm more of a city guy. For the most part, I can't imagine the tenderloin being that dangerous, just depresing. Of course there's probably a lotta muggings and crap, but when i visited, it seemed like the cops knew how to handle business. As a guy too though, hobos don't really instill any fear in me, i'd be more worried about the thugs.

But from MY impression, Davis is more cordial, i went on an informal tour (i missed the class), so i was able to talk to a profesor, and a handful of students talked to me as if I went to the school and took classes with them. Although it is in the middle of nowhere, they do have a reservoir of hot undergrads (i assume), they got lake tahoe down the road and sacramento too. And on top of that, they have each other, and what i mean by that is that everyone is nice to each other and hangs out, by doing things like beer softball, an activity that i think profesors might even partake in (i might be wrong about this part).

San FRancisco, even though it is in the tenderloin, it is still damn pretty in the daytime (just phase the hobos out of your view), city hall or whatever is literally a block a way and is gorrrrgeous annd inspiring! the 49ers and giants are down the street (big deal for me), and the top of the tower has a BOMB ass view. People seem a little more cliquey, moreso because there's probably just a hellofa lot more, but absolutely no one said hi or smiled at me when I was at hastings.

Sooo in my eyes, when deciding between the two, it really boils down to:
1) are you more of a city or suburb type person (this has a lot of aspects - do you like goin out to bars at night, do you like a high population density with more fast paced lifestyle, are you ok with hobos outside your door, etc.)
2) do you like a close knit community or do you like having your own small group of friends out of a very large group
3) is the difference in ranking that big of a deal for you

Also from what i hear, davis is bigger on PI whereas HAstings is geared more towards $$$, but i've heard a lot of conflicting issues. I think you can make it happen at ether school.

just my $0.02

[Lasers]

i'm considering both schools, and though i much prefer living in SF to davis, the new rankings have made me think twice about my preference for hastings.

are the rankings bullshit, or has anything changed recently? why such a big gap between the school rankings now?

[General Tso]

i'm considering both schools, and though i much prefer living in SF to davis, the new rankings have made me think twice about my preference for hastings.

are the rankings bullshit, or has anything changed recently? why such a big gap between the school rankings now?

I'd decide based on the factors in the post above yours. My guess as to the rankings disparity is that:
1. Davis' reported employed at graduation rate has gone from the low 70s in 2007 to 87% in 2009 and 98% in 2010. I calculated that this figure alone would add about 1.5 points to their raw USNWR score. This is my biggest beef with Davis...for decades Hastings and Davis had comparable employment rates, and all of a sudden in the last few years (when the CA economy has slowed considerably) Davis is improving its career prospects by leaps and bounds? Doesnt seem to add up.
2. Davis just built a new law school building, and I bet they counted this expense as part of "expenditures per student", although I have no proof since this figure is not reported by USNWR.
3. Davis has a much lower student/faculty ratio, which in my opinion is not a very useful factor in choosing a law school.

[Borhas]

i'm considering both schools, and though i much prefer living in SF to davis, the new rankings have made me think twice about my preference for hastings.

are the rankings bullshit, or has anything changed recently? why such a big gap between the school rankings now?

Hastings and Davis are both good and probably are in the T-30 or so range in rankings regardless of what USNWR says (because the perception of tiers, and the resulting costs and benefits existed before the USNWR created their lists and will exist regardless of what USNWR does).

I also think Davis games the rankings USNWR rankings more than Hastings. The 98% employment numbers are dubious... and if you look on lawschooltransparency.com you'll see that Davis has one of the lowest % of salaries reported among all schools, while Hastings is one of the most transparent schools.

Davis:
--LinkRemoved--

Hastings:
--LinkRemoved--

If you prefer SF then you shouldn't be deterred by USNWR, many of the factors they use are arbitrary and unreliable

Also from what i hear, davis is bigger on PI whereas HAstings is geared more towards $$$, but i've heard a lot of conflicting issues. I think you can make it happen at ether school.

I highly doubt this is the case... Hastings has a much better LRAP ("PICAP) than Davis, and it has superior access to the PI positions available in SF, and it probably has some of the most dedicated PI oriented students anywhere (it's San Francisco after all, no shortage of bleeding hearts). PI is probably one of the areas that there is significant difference between these two schools.

[Lasers]

thanks a lot. at this point, i can't see myself choosing davis over hastings (especially since i love bay area sports and can't stand the smaller atmosphere of davis). i've lived in SF all my life before going to socal for undergrad. i'd love to stay down here, but i don't think i'll have the numbers for ucla/usc, and i'd also love to go back to SF.

to anyone currently attending hastings, is the cutthroat atmosphere at hastings overrated? i thought i had heard they made some measures to make things more lenient on students; has that made any difference?

[octneedy]

Very useful info. Thanks!

[General Tso]

to anyone currently attending hastings, is the cutthroat atmosphere at hastings overrated? i thought i had heard they made some measures to make things more lenient on students; has that made any difference?

It's competitive, but I think pretty much all law schools are highly competitive right now given the poor job market. I don't think its any more competitive here than anywhere else.

[20160810]

i'm considering both schools, and though i much prefer living in SF to davis, the new rankings have made me think twice about my preference for hastings.

are the rankings bullshit, or has anything changed recently? why such a big gap between the school rankings now?

I'd decide based on the factors in the post above yours. My guess as to the rankings disparity is that:
1. Davis' reported employed at graduation rate has gone from the low 70s in 2007 to 87% in 2009 and 98% in 2010. I calculated that this figure alone would add about 1.5 points to their raw USNWR score. This is my biggest beef with Davis...for decades Hastings and Davis had comparable employment rates, and all of a sudden in the last few years (when the CA economy has slowed considerably) Davis is improving its career prospects by leaps and bounds? Doesnt seem to add up.
2. Davis just built a new law school building, and I bet they counted this expense as part of "expenditures per student", although I have no proof since this figure is not reported by USNWR.
3. Davis has a much lower student/faculty ratio, which in my opinion is not a very useful factor in choosing a law school.

2 UCD professors I developed relationships with over the course of 1L were instrumental in me getting a firm job, so I wouldn't poo-pooh student/faculty ratio so quickly.

[Aggiegrad2011]

I was just thinking that, SBL.

It seems like a small student:faculty ratio would be a boon, not a hindrance (or non-factor)! More chance for a more personal relationship, and in a climate like this, it isn't what you know, but who you know (and blow) even more than ever before.

If it turned out that I only got accepted to Hastings and Davis, it'd be a tough choice for sure, but since I am an Aggie, I'd likely choose Davis.

[General Tso]

2 UCD professors I developed relationships with over the course of 1L were instrumental in me getting a firm job, so I wouldn't poo-pooh student/faculty ratio so quickly.

I mean, it's a factor, but if you really want to build relationships with profs you can do that at pretty much any school. Most 1L classes are going to be ~75-90 students no matter where you go to school. I doubt very many people choose Davis over Hastings just due to student/faculty ratio.

As the guy pointed out above, it's mostly a regional preference (for now at least). If Davis keeps rising in the rankings and Hastings keeps falling, I think we will begin to see a (real) shift in employment outcomes over time, and Davis will become the clear choice.

[stonepeep]

to anyone currently attending hastings, is the cutthroat atmosphere at hastings overrated? i thought i had heard they made some measures to make things more lenient on students; has that made any difference?

Totally overrated. The idea that Hastings is really cutthroat comes from a time when the curve was much harsher, and LRW was a GPA class and did not allow electronic research. That's where stories of people hiding books, etc, come from. None of that happens now (if it ever did; who knows). I really doubt Hastings is any more competitive than any other law school.

In fact, I would say that the larger class size, in terms of the overall 1L class, is helpful if anything, because there's not that sense that everyone knows everyone else's business.

Oh, and re: developing relationships with professors, I know plenty of people at Hastings who have done that. It depends a lot more on personal initiative than class size.

[mnolen]

to anyone currently attending hastings, is the cutthroat atmosphere at hastings overrated? i thought i had heard they made some measures to make things more lenient on students; has that made any difference?

Totally overrated. The idea that Hastings is really cutthroat comes from a time when the curve was much harsher, and LRW was a GPA class and did not allow electronic research. That's where stories of people hiding books, etc, come from. None of that happens now (if it ever did; who knows). I really doubt Hastings is any more competitive than any other law school.

In fact, I would say that the larger class size, in terms of the overall 1L class, is helpful if anything, because there's not that sense that everyone knows everyone else's business.

Totes agree. I haven't seen any sort of cutthroatyness. It's competitive, but almost everyone keeps their shit to themselves.

SP, I'm just gonna follow you from thread to thread until you acknowledge me.

[83947368]

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[AnthonyNicator]

my brother did his undergrad at davis -- let me tell you, you're going to spending three years in basically bumfucknowhere. the campus is chill, sure, but its surronded by dry grass plains and cows. you need a car to stay sane. sacramento is close by so thats chill.

hastings is in the city, and ive lived in the bay area my entire life. the location that hastings happens to find itself in maybe less than desirable, but the school is legt, T50, and the alumni network is pretty nice. your only immediate competition is USF, and MAYBE, MAYBE SCU kids. some stanford nerds no doubt, but the city has biglaw. hastings. if you dont like it, transfer to UCLA.

[calilaw]

my brother did his undergrad at davis -- let me tell you, you're going to spending three years in basically bumfucknowhere. the campus is chill, sure, but its surronded by dry grass plains and cows. you need a car to stay sane. sacramento is close by so thats chill.

hastings is in the city, and ive lived in the bay area my entire life. the location that hastings happens to find itself in maybe less than desirable, but the school is legt, T50, and the alumni network is pretty nice. your only immediate competition is USF, and MAYBE, MAYBE SCU kids. some stanford nerds no doubt, but the city has biglaw. hastings. if you dont like it, transfer to UCLA.

I wouldn't say Davis is bumfucknowhere. Downtown Sacramento is literally 10 miles away - and has a metropolitan population of about 2 million. Davis has over 60,000 people. Nearby Woodland has 60,000 people. And the SF Bay Area is a 30-60 minute drive, depending on what part you want to get to. And honestly, Davis isn't that bad - there are dozens of restaurants/bars/shops - the downtown is actually surprisingly vibrant. So if you're reading this thread and haven't explored Davis, don't write it off as completely "middle of nowhere/nothing to do." Obviously you're not in the middle of San Francisco like Hastings, but you're not going to be bored for 3 years.