Hamilton + Darrow vs. Rest of T7-14 Forum

[cookiemonsterok]

Got the Hamilton today, Darrow yesterday. Interested in practicing transactional big law. Should I withdraw from lower ranked schools or wait for their offers as well?

By lower ranked schools, I mean I'd be withdrawing from UCLA, Georgetown, Cornell, Duke, Northwestern, Berkeley, Virginia, Penn and NYU.

[Dcc617]

Got the Hamilton today, Darrow yesterday. Interested in practicing transactional big law. Should I withdraw from lower ranked schools or wait for their offers as well?

By lower ranked schools, I mean I'd be withdrawing from UCLA, Georgetown, Cornell, Duke, Northwestern, Berkeley, and NYU.

If you got a full ride from those schools would you accept them over your current offers? If not you should withdraw.

[cookiemonsterok]

Got the Hamilton today, Darrow yesterday. Interested in practicing transactional big law. Should I withdraw from lower ranked schools or wait for their offers as well?

By lower ranked schools, I mean I'd be withdrawing from UCLA, Georgetown, Cornell, Duke, Northwestern, Berkeley, and NYU.

If you got a full ride from those schools would you accept them over your current offers? If not you should withdraw.

Would a Mordecai, Dillard, or Levy be something I should consider accepting over my current offers? I've heard Columbia is pretty much best option for those who want to practice big law, is that true?

[Dcc617]

You can get biglaw from any of those schools. You'll have pretty minimal debt from any of them (but due to COL, some debt, so factor that in). On the margins, Columbia will give you better outcomes, but that won't be the case for most people (you'll end up a first year with a bunch of people from those schools).

For straight transactional biglaw you can't really go wrong taking a full ride at a T14.

[cookiemonsterok]

You can get biglaw from any of those schools. You'll have pretty minimal debt from any of them (but due to COL, some debt, so factor that in). On the margins, Columbia will give you better outcomes, but that won't be the case for most people (you'll end up a first year with a bunch of people from those schools).

For straight transactional biglaw you can't really go wrong taking a full ride at a T14.

Oh alright, got it. A question about the cost of living though, LST says Columbia's COL is 25k but that NYUs is 30k, aren't the two schools in pretty much the same place? Are those COL numbers accurate?

[AJordan]

I mean, do your own calculations. What kind of living/commute situation are you trying to have? Do you cook at home/eat out/vulture every free food option available? If you're trying to live alone relatively close to the school I think $30k sounds low honestly. If you're willing to share a place and cook most of your meals, 30k sounds reasonable if you're trying to have any kind of social life. 25k sounds pretty low to me but seems doable if you're a pariah.

[aegor]

The fact that you did not just accept the Hamilton means your OP lacks relevant details about your preferences because Hamilton is the obvious choice if the only consideration is transactional biglaw.

Feel fee to PM me. I am on a Hamilton fellowship.

[cavalier1138]

Yeah, the only thing that should even possibly stand a chance at displacing the Hamilton is a Ruby at Chicago.

[Internationalist]

You can get biglaw from any of those schools. You'll have pretty minimal debt from any of them (but due to COL, some debt, so factor that in). On the margins, Columbia will give you better outcomes, but that won't be the case for most people (you'll end up a first year with a bunch of people from those schools).

For straight transactional biglaw you can't really go wrong taking a full ride at a T14.

Oh alright, got it. A question about the cost of living though, LST says Columbia's COL is 25k but that NYUs is 30k, aren't the two schools in pretty much the same place? Are those COL numbers accurate?

NYU is in Greenwich Village ($$$) and Columbia is in Morningside Heights ($). You can obviously choose to live wherever you want but NYU and Columbia are in different parts of Manhattan and the COL accurately reflects the cost to live near each campus.

[cookiemonsterok]

The fact that you did not just accept the Hamilton means your OP lacks relevant details about your preferences because Hamilton is the obvious choice if the only consideration is transactional biglaw.

Feel fee to PM me. I am on a Hamilton fellowship.

Cavalier is right, I’m still waiting to hear from Chicago for the Ruby as I feel that such an increase in scholarship amount is worth more than the advantage Columbia holds in big law placement. As of now though I’m leaning heavily towards Hamilton, just checking to see if I’m justified in withdrawing from every other school but Chicago this early in the cycle.

[cookiemonsterok]

I mean, do your own calculations. What kind of living/commute situation are you trying to have? Do you cook at home/eat out/vulture every free food option available? If you're trying to live alone relatively close to the school I think $30k sounds low honestly. If you're willing to share a place and cook most of your meals, 30k sounds reasonable if you're trying to have any kind of social life. 25k sounds pretty low to me but seems doable if you're a pariah.

Oh this is really interesting, I hadn’t made all of these considerations. I live at home with my parents now, haven’t learned how to cook yet but I plan to do do once I head off to law school. I’m down to have a roommate if it means saving that much money, and I’ve also been commuting via. public transit for most of my life so I’m down to continue doing so as well. I would want to be able to network and attend social events whenever possible, so I guess 30k would be a reasonable estimate for my COL? Is there housing available on Columbia’s campus? And is that cheaper than finding a place elsewhere near the city?

[cookiemonsterok]

You can get biglaw from any of those schools. You'll have pretty minimal debt from any of them (but due to COL, some debt, so factor that in). On the margins, Columbia will give you better outcomes, but that won't be the case for most people (you'll end up a first year with a bunch of people from those schools).

For straight transactional biglaw you can't really go wrong taking a full ride at a T14.

Oh alright, got it. A question about the cost of living though, LST says Columbia's COL is 25k but that NYUs is 30k, aren't the two schools in pretty much the same place? Are those COL numbers accurate?

NYU is in Greenwich Village ($$$) and Columbia is in Morningside Heights ($). You can obviously choose to live wherever you want but NYU and Columbia are in different parts of Manhattan and the COL accurately reflects the cost to live near each campus.

Ah that makes a lot of sense, thank you for the breakdown!

[logan3000]

I mean, do your own calculations. What kind of living/commute situation are you trying to have? Do you cook at home/eat out/vulture every free food option available? If you're trying to live alone relatively close to the school I think $30k sounds low honestly. If you're willing to share a place and cook most of your meals, 30k sounds reasonable if you're trying to have any kind of social life. 25k sounds pretty low to me but seems doable if you're a pariah.

Oh this is really interesting, I hadn’t made all of these considerations. I live at home with my parents now, haven’t learned how to cook yet but I plan to do do once I head off to law school. I’m down to have a roommate if it means saving that much money, and I’ve also been commuting via. public transit for most of my life so I’m down to continue doing so as well. I would want to be able to network and attend social events whenever possible, so I guess 30k would be a reasonable estimate for my COL? Is there housing available on Columbia’s campus? And is that cheaper than finding a place elsewhere near the city?

$25-30k is definitely reasonable.

$1300-1500/mo for shared CLS apartment = $13k for 9 months, or $2000-2500 for a CLS studio = $20k for 9 months. In normal years I believe this is cheaper than off-campus but since COVID it's comparable/a more expensive.
(Summer expenses would likely be funded by GSF if you don't get a 1L SA so not considering those three months, then 2L SA can cover second year summer)
Leaves you with anywhere from $10-20k for other living expenses, so plenty of cushion for eating out and living well if you want, or saving a little bit if you're trying to be especially frugal.

Certainly not a bad idea to stay home 1L though if you have the option, but if you're on the Hamilton *and* planning on BL... $20k is truly a drop in the bucket and should not be a determinative factor here

[cookiemonsterok]

I mean, do your own calculations. What kind of living/commute situation are you trying to have? Do you cook at home/eat out/vulture every free food option available? If you're trying to live alone relatively close to the school I think $30k sounds low honestly. If you're willing to share a place and cook most of your meals, 30k sounds reasonable if you're trying to have any kind of social life. 25k sounds pretty low to me but seems doable if you're a pariah.

Oh this is really interesting, I hadn’t made all of these considerations. I live at home with my parents now, haven’t learned how to cook yet but I plan to do do once I head off to law school. I’m down to have a roommate if it means saving that much money, and I’ve also been commuting via. public transit for most of my life so I’m down to continue doing so as well. I would want to be able to network and attend social events whenever possible, so I guess 30k would be a reasonable estimate for my COL? Is there housing available on Columbia’s campus? And is that cheaper than finding a place elsewhere near the city?

$25-30k is definitely reasonable.

$1300-1500/mo for shared CLS apartment = $13k for 9 months, or $2000-2500 for a CLS studio = $20k for 9 months. In normal years I believe this is cheaper than off-campus but since COVID it's comparable/a more expensive.
(Summer expenses would likely be funded by GSF if you don't get a 1L SA so not considering those three months, then 2L SA can cover second year summer)
Leaves you with anywhere from $10-20k for other living expenses, so plenty of cushion for eating out and living well if you want, or saving a little bit if you're trying to be especially frugal.

Certainly not a bad idea to stay home 1L though if you have the option, but if you're on the Hamilton *and* planning on BL... $20k is truly a drop in the bucket and should not be a determinative factor here

Wow thank you so much for the break down, extremely helpful to see the potential costs of different living situations in NY. I’m actually an international student so I’ll definitely be moving out, looking forward to the experience. Thank you once again for your help!

[aegor]

I’m down to have a roommate if it means saving that much money, and I’ve also been commuting via. public transit for most of my life so I’m down to continue doing so as well. I would want to be able to network and attend social events whenever possible, so I guess 30k would be a reasonable estimate for my COL? Is there housing available on Columbia’s campus? And is that cheaper than finding a place elsewhere near the city?

The breakdown provided by the other user is correct and reflects rent in CLS/Columbia buildings. You can get even cheaper rent through non-Columbia apartments, which some students do. Your COL skyrockets if you eat out frequently. I get groceries delivered from Whole Foods for a pretty reasonable price and make really easy recipes (Instant Pot, slow cooker)--you can make food in batches, portion it out, and freeze. Cheap and really easy--some recipes just require you to toss everything in the slow cooker and let it sit.

[cookiemonsterok]

I’m down to have a roommate if it means saving that much money, and I’ve also been commuting via. public transit for most of my life so I’m down to continue doing so as well. I would want to be able to network and attend social events whenever possible, so I guess 30k would be a reasonable estimate for my COL? Is there housing available on Columbia’s campus? And is that cheaper than finding a place elsewhere near the city?

The breakdown provided by the other user is correct and reflects rent in CLS/Columbia buildings. You can get even cheaper rent through non-Columbia apartments, which some students do. Your COL skyrockets if you eat out frequently. I get groceries delivered from Whole Foods for a pretty reasonable price and make really easy recipes (Instant Pot, slow cooker)--you can make food in batches, portion it out, and freeze. Cheap and really easy--some recipes just require you to toss everything in the slow cooker and let it sit.

Oh interesting, where can I find out more about non-Columbia apartments?

Also got it, meal planning sounds like a really good idea! I was also thinking of getting a rice cooker and try to do as many lunch/dinner meals based around rice as possible, just to keep my costs ultra low. I’ve heard that whole foods can be pretty expensive, is that just some incorrect rumours or are there actually significantly cheaper grocery shopping options available?

[aegor]

Oh interesting, where can I find out more about non-Columbia apartments?

Craigslist and stuff, I assume. TBH I just went through CLS and have not lived in apartments previously, so I am not sure what the best resources are.

Also got it, meal planning sounds like a really good idea! I was also thinking of getting a rice cooker and try to do as many lunch/dinner meals based around rice as possible, just to keep my costs ultra low. I’ve heard that whole foods can be pretty expensive, is that just some incorrect rumours or are there actually significantly cheaper grocery shopping options available?

Instant Pots cook both rice and pretty much everything else, so you do not need a separate rice cooker unless you want one. I use my IP for rice.

There are plenty of groceries near campus. I use Whole Foods for several reasons:

1) Time--I save a lot of time just going to my building's lobby rather than going shopping. Because law students are busy, this can actually make a difference.

2) Selection--most of the local grocery stores are limited. Sometimes I cannot find what I would consider basic spices. A lot of them have small sections for meat but no actual meat counter. Produce is hit-or-miss. Based on where I have lived, I am used to pretty spacious stores with massive selection. Whole Foods in the only reliable store for this as far as I have discovered.

3) Price--Whole Foods is not actually much more expensive than other stores for what you get. I also get things on sale there to reduce costs further. I do not think that Whole Foods is particular expensive, but I also want to eat produce and at least some healthful foods. Trust me--it is worth paying for high-quality food given the stress and other difficulties of law school. You should do everything you can to stay healthy. It is ridiculous to pinch pennies with something as basic as food when you are going to be making $190k right after graduation.

[cookiemonsterok]

Oh interesting, where can I find out more about non-Columbia apartments?

Craigslist and stuff, I assume. TBH I just went through CLS and have not lived in apartments previously, so I am not sure what the best resources are.

Also got it, meal planning sounds like a really good idea! I was also thinking of getting a rice cooker and try to do as many lunch/dinner meals based around rice as possible, just to keep my costs ultra low. I’ve heard that whole foods can be pretty expensive, is that just some incorrect rumours or are there actually significantly cheaper grocery shopping options available?

Instant Pots cook both rice and pretty much everything else, so you do not need a separate rice cooker unless you want one. I use my IP for rice.

There are plenty of groceries near campus. I use Whole Foods for several reasons:

1) Time--I save a lot of time just going to my building's lobby rather than going shopping. Because law students are busy, this can actually make a difference.

2) Selection--most of the local grocery stores are limited. Sometimes I cannot find what I would consider basic spices. A lot of them have small sections for meat but no actual meat counter. Produce is hit-or-miss. Based on where I have lived, I am used to pretty spacious stores with massive selection. Whole Foods in the only reliable store for this as far as I have discovered.

3) Price--Whole Foods is not actually much more expensive than other stores for what you get. I also get things on sale there to reduce costs further. I do not think that Whole Foods is particular expensive, but I also want to eat produce and at least some healthful foods. Trust me--it is worth paying for high-quality food given the stress and other difficulties of law school. You should do everything you can to stay healthy. It is ridiculous to pinch pennies with something as basic as food when you are going to be making $190k right after graduation.

Ahhh this all makes so much sense, thank you! I’ll provably stick with CLS housing but I’ll definitely look into other options just in case.

Additionally, thank you for the tips and the reasoning behind shopping at Whole Foods. I really appreciate the detail you went into and your logic behind your choices makes a lot of sense. You’re probably right with the whole “no need to pinch pennies” thing, guess I still haven’t wrapped my head around having such a large amount of income set to come in once I graduate haha. Once again, thank you for your response.