Army Officer: Northwestern early, or wait for GI and shoot higher Forum

[mshares]

Good evening, I am an Army officer with 5 years active service looking to apply to law school. Cost is a big concern, I will be entering law school at 30 years old and my wife is expecting our first this summer. I have NOT taken the LSAT (my practice tests are in the mid 160s and I am testing in April), but my UGPA is a 3.94, my major was Electrical Engineering, and I graduated in the top 10% of my class from West Point. I am also a top officer with a strong resume (multiple #1 enumerations, international experience, Ranger qualified, etc). My question helps drive my timeline so I can anticipate when to apply and maximize time to perfect my application and submit as early as possible.

Is there any practical difference to a large law firm between Northwestern Law and Harvard/UChicago Law? Northwestern offers a $120k scholarship to those who apply Early Decision, split over 3 years. This is important because that would be the equivalent of what the Yellow Ribbon would offer and thus I would not need the full GI Benefits, and thus the YRP, to cover tuition. This would enable me to transition out of the Army a year sooner (my knees hurt and I'm tired of it, lol). So, I could:

1) Apply ED to Northwestern. Primary risk is if I fail there is no YRP for other schools. ED applicants to Northwestern are more likely than regular decision to get in from what I've read, but the risk remains.
2) Stay in an extra year, shoot for the moon, and apply everywhere regular decision and use YRP and potentially go to Harvard or UChicago (#3 and 4, respectively), but lose a year.

Thus, does Harvard or UChicago (if I get in) more than account for the opportunity cost of getting into the job market, and it's accompanying salary, a year later, than going a year earlier to Northwestern. To help with that math, I am an O3 with dependents, making roughly $100-110k all benefits included. And no, it's not worth it. Like I said, my knees hurt.

I understand I may seem very presumptuous, but fortune favors the bold. Thanks for your time.

[crazywafflez]

I'd take a 120k scholarship at NW over Uchi if your goal is just generic biglaw. If you have other goals UChi or H may be better options. But I think for most career paths NW is a pretty viable, or even great, option. Try and get your LSAT up though, you'll really want to aim for above a 166. Not sure you'll get the ED scholly at NW with a 165 3.94 (maybe you will, but better safe than sorry). I'd also apply broadly to the T14 and T20s in the region you want to practice and see what packages you get. Best of luck.

[Dcc617]

Can you just coast for a year? If I recall correctly, then you can submit your UQR like 6 months before your exit date. That also gives you a little more breathing room. At five years, aren’t you basically just slotted for staff now anyway?

GI Bill is pretty sweet, and let’s you go anywhere. If I were you, I’d first get an LSAT score and go from there. I wouldn’t build my life around on crushing the LSAT until I got the score in hand. You could get sick or something and need a retake. I’d build that time into your plan.

Honest advice is to try to get on profile and build that disability rating. If you’re looking at bouncing after a year your approach/perspective should be different. I know the army sucks and I personally hated it, but the GI Bill is amazing.

[mshares]

Can you just coast for a year? If I recall correctly, then you can submit your UQR like 6 months before your exit date. That also gives you a little more breathing room. At five years, aren’t you basically just slotted for staff now anyway?

GI Bill is pretty sweet, and let’s you go anywhere. If I were you, I’d first get an LSAT score and go from there. I wouldn’t build my life around on crushing the LSAT until I got the score in hand. You could get sick or something and need a retake. I’d build that time into your plan.

Honest advice is to try to get on profile and build that disability rating. If you’re looking at bouncing after a year your approach/perspective should be different. I know the army sucks and I personally hated it, but the GI Bill is amazing.

I get what you're saying. I would be trying to get out at either the 7 or 8 year mark, so I am looking a little far into the future and allowing myself time for the LSAT. That would be the difference between 80 and 100% GI benefits. If all works out well with the LSAT, and other schools would not match the opportunity cost of staying in the Army an extra year, I'd rather try ED and get out a year earlier and get on with my life. I suppose I could withdraw a UQR if ED fails.

I am about to take a command position in Italy, which is a very nice place to coast, but like I said I'd rather get out. And personally I don't want to go for disability I do not need, just a personal idea. Thanks for your input though!

[AJordan]

A few notes:

Someone correct me if this has changed in the last 18 months but GI Bill is a last payer, so even if you end up with 40k a year from NWestern, the GI Bill is only going to cover 80% the remainder, which would still leave you with an annual tuition bill of 7 grand or so. That's not equivalent to using yellow ribbon which does, at all T14 schools currently, cover 100% of tuition. So your cost benefit should really include that extra 25-30k (when factoring interest) in loans.

Additionally, with your GPA, if you could crack 170 on the LSAT you can literally get paid to go to a T14. One of the folks I'm advising this cycle is in at a public T14 with a $20k/year stipend. GI Bill covers 100% of tuition and the school cuts him a check. You're him with a better GPA and an academy pedigree. He's you with a 170+ LSAT score. So we're already at $100k in additional benefit by making it to 100% GI Bill.

You're not likely to have problems getting high paying work after school if you end up in the T14. If you want the highest level, most prestigious work you really should be gunning for YHS if only because you're exactly the type of applicant that schools go gaga over. It's fine to take your own path, just be aware of what you're potentially giving up in exchange for a year.

Agreed that your next step is to get an LSAT score you're happy with. 170+ is attainable from your current position with time left. From there, maybe come back with more targeted questions (or send me a pm) and we can talk more specifically.

[Sackboy]

If your goals are biglaw, then this sounds fine. UChi/Harvard will put lower ranking students at higher-ranked Vault firms than the equivalent at Northwestern, but they're all producing very similar levels of biglaw folks. Maybe middle of the class at Harvard lands you at a V30 while middle of the class at Northwestern puts you at V50. For impact lit, academia, clerkship, and the unicorn outcomes some folks are interested in, UChi/Harvard without a doubt have real advantages. I went to Northwestern, landed a few hairs above median, and landed at a V10. I have a friend who landed in the bottom 25% of the class and ended up at a V30 and another who was median who landed at a V100, so ymmv. Regardless, the only folks I know who wanted biglaw and didn't get it had something working against them (e.g. Chinese national with obvious ESL, orthodox Jew, etc.). I got exactly what I wanted out of this thing and would have been fine at a V100, quite frankly. So, if that's you, then it's a very solid outcome. Again, if you want to be the next RBG/John Roberts, you should probably hold out for Harvard.