Indiana, William & Mary or Cardozo for International Student Forum

[Emma08]

Hi,
I am really struggling on making a decision between these three schools.
I would love to hear any advices.

As an international student, what matters most to me, currently, is to find a job that sponsors H1B after graduation. I am not the "big law or bust" kind of person, and I know my chance at big law is not very optimistic. However, I do not know what kind of other legal works could satisfy the requirements of the H1B visa and I would really appreciate it if anyone could provide any informatino about that.

And I do not have a strong preference on Location as long as I can find a job that sponsors H1B and can allow me to provide for myself.

The second thing that I look forward to is that the school could give me the reputation or alumni network that could help me to build a whole new career in the States.

Thank you for reading my post and I really look forward to receiving some responses.

[cavalier1138]

As an international student, what matters most to me, currently, is to find a job that sponsors H1B after graduation. I am not the "big law or bust" kind of person, and I know my chance at big law is not very optimistic.

You've correctly spotted that you essentially need to get biglaw in order to get H1B sponsorship. And these schools aren't going to do it.

The second thing that I look forward to is that the school could give me the reputation or alumni network that could help me to build a whole new career in the States.

These schools don't have the kind of reputation you're hoping for. More importantly, they can't help you build a career in the US if they can't position you for a job that will let you stay here in the first place.

I would not recommend any of these schools for your goals; you really need to be targeting a T13 for a reasonable chance at biglaw.

[Emma08]

Thank you so much for your reply.
But this is already the result of my reapplication.
If I have to choose one, which one would you recommend to an internationl student looking for a job that sponsors H1B.

As an international student, what matters most to me, currently, is to find a job that sponsors H1B after graduation. I am not the "big law or bust" kind of person, and I know my chance at big law is not very optimistic.

You've correctly spotted that you essentially need to get biglaw in order to get H1B sponsorship. And these schools aren't going to do it.

The second thing that I look forward to is that the school could give me the reputation or alumni network that could help me to build a whole new career in the States.

These schools don't have the kind of reputation you're hoping for. More importantly, they can't help you build a career in the US if they can't position you for a job that will let you stay here in the first place.

I would not recommend any of these schools for your goals; you really need to be targeting a T13 for a reasonable chance at biglaw.

[cavalier1138]

Thank you so much for your reply.
But this is already the result of my reapplication.
If I have to choose one, which one would you recommend to an internationl student looking for a job that sponsors H1B.

You don't have to choose one, so I wouldn't recommend any of them. Your most likely outcome from these schools will be six figures of debt and no H1B visa.

[trebekismyhero]

Thank you so much for your reply.
But this is already the result of my reapplication.
If I have to choose one, which one would you recommend to an internationl student looking for a job that sponsors H1B.

You don't have to choose one, so I wouldn't recommend any of them. Your most likely outcome from these schools will be six figures of debt and no H1B visa.

+1. If you go to any of these, only go with the expectation that you will end up back in your home country. If getting a JD from these schools isn't helpful in your home country don't go and re-take the LSAT until you can get into a t13.

[decimalsanddollars]

I agree 100% with Cavalier that you probably shouldn't go to any of these schools in your position. First of all, as an international student, you will have some obstacles in recruitment: many federal and even state government jobs are not available to you (including basically all federal clerkships), and only the biggest and richest private employers can afford to sponsor someone for H1B incident to regular, entry-level hiring. Very hard to find sponsoring employers outside of biglaw.

None of these schools do very well at placing their students in biglaw, so it's a very expensive and ill-advised risk to take out $150k-200k of loans (or more) for a 15-20% chance (at best) of biglaw. By the way, what is your expected total cost of attendance at each? I don't advise going to any of these law schools this year, but if you do decide to go, cost should inform your decision. Without that information, and assuming you'd pay full price at whichever school you chose, I would recommend W&M over the other two: cost is lower than Cardozo and biglaw placement is the same or better.

[nealric]

I agree 100% with Cavalier that you probably shouldn't go to any of these schools in your position. First of all, as an international student, you will have some obstacles in recruitment: many federal and even state government jobs are not available to you (including basically all federal clerkships), and only the biggest and richest private employers can afford to sponsor someone for H1B incident to regular, entry-level hiring. Very hard to find sponsoring employers outside of biglaw.

None of these schools do very well at placing their students in biglaw, so it's a very expensive and ill-advised risk to take out $150k-200k of loans (or more) for a 15-20% chance (at best) of biglaw. By the way, what is your expected total cost of attendance at each? I don't advise going to any of these law schools this year, but if you do decide to go, cost should inform your decision. Without that information, and assuming you'd pay full price at whichever school you chose, I would recommend W&M over the other two: cost is lower than Cardozo and biglaw placement is the same or better.

Another point: OP can't just take out federal student loans. How will this all be financed?

To affirm others: none of these schools are going to get you where you want to go. In fact, I'd be wary of most of the T14 if you are absolutely dependent on getting an visa. I'd draw the line at HYSCCN. Getting biglaw when you need visa sponsorship is even harder than just getting biglaw, and I've known international students who had biglaw offers and were holding their breath about visa approval. As you likely know, the U.S. immigration system is a total wreck right now for potential immigrants, and things can change on a dime.

If those aren't realistic options, then I'd say that law school in the U.S. is probably a poor decision UNLESS it's of significant benefit in your home country to have a U.S. JD. If that's the case, try to go somewhere cheap. None of these schools even have great recognition in the U.S. outside of their home markets, and I have to imagine most law schools outside of the elite ones will be unknown in your home country, so there's unlikely to be much career advantage of one or the other.

[LSATWiz.com]

I agree 100% with Cavalier that you probably shouldn't go to any of these schools in your position. First of all, as an international student, you will have some obstacles in recruitment: many federal and even state government jobs are not available to you (including basically all federal clerkships), and only the biggest and richest private employers can afford to sponsor someone for H1B incident to regular, entry-level hiring. Very hard to find sponsoring employers outside of biglaw.

None of these schools do very well at placing their students in biglaw, so it's a very expensive and ill-advised risk to take out $150k-200k of loans (or more) for a 15-20% chance (at best) of biglaw. By the way, what is your expected total cost of attendance at each? I don't advise going to any of these law schools this year, but if you do decide to go, cost should inform your decision. Without that information, and assuming you'd pay full price at whichever school you chose, I would recommend W&M over the other two: cost is lower than Cardozo and biglaw placement is the same or better.

Another point: OP can't just take out federal student loans. How will this all be financed?

To affirm others: none of these schools are going to get you where you want to go. In fact, I'd be wary of most of the T14 if you are absolutely dependent on getting an visa. I'd draw the line at HYSCCN. Getting biglaw when you need visa sponsorship is even harder than just getting biglaw, and I've known international students who had biglaw offers and were holding their breath about visa approval. As you likely know, the U.S. immigration system is a total wreck right now for potential immigrants, and things can change on a dime.

If those aren't realistic options, then I'd say that law school in the U.S. is probably a poor decision UNLESS it's of significant benefit in your home country to have a U.S. JD. If that's the case, try to go somewhere cheap. None of these schools even have great recognition in the U.S. outside of their home markets, and I have to imagine most law schools outside of the elite ones will be unknown in your home country, so there's unlikely to be much career advantage of one or the other.

Assuming they are Western European and Emma is a common name in the UK and France, it seems unlikely American lawyers are in particularly high demand. It seems tough to go to one of these law schools in a post-Covid 19 economy and expect to land a job that will give them visa support. It will be hard enough for American students in her class to land their job. This is a very difficult bet and not one she needs to take but I wish her the best of luck if she decides to take it.

[QContinuum]

Assuming they are Western European and Emma is a common name in the UK and France, it seems unlikely American lawyers are in particularly high demand. It seems tough to go to one of these law schools in a post-Covid 19 economy and expect to land a job that will give them visa support. It will be hard enough for American students in her class to land their job. This is a very difficult bet and not one she needs to take but I wish her the best of luck if she decides to take it.

I don't want to read too much into a few online posts, but I don't get the sense Emma's British. My initial assumption, which could very well be wrong, is that Emma's Chinese. (It's very common for international Chinese students to adopt a common American name, like Joe or Emma, as their unofficial first name.) I know very little about the Chinese legal industry, admittedly, but it does strike me that an American law degree might be viewed favorably in China.

[trebekismyhero]

Assuming they are Western European and Emma is a common name in the UK and France, it seems unlikely American lawyers are in particularly high demand. It seems tough to go to one of these law schools in a post-Covid 19 economy and expect to land a job that will give them visa support. It will be hard enough for American students in her class to land their job. This is a very difficult bet and not one she needs to take but I wish her the best of luck if she decides to take it.

I don't want to read too much into a few online posts, but I don't get the sense Emma's British. My initial assumption, which could very well be wrong, is that Emma's Chinese. (It's very common for international Chinese students to adopt a common American name, like Joe or Emma, as their unofficial first name.) I know very little about the Chinese legal industry, admittedly, but it does strike me that an American law degree might be viewed favorably in China.

Yes, really depends on the home country. I went to law school with a lot of Chinese and Korean students and an American law degree helped them either get Big Law or a good government job in their home country. I think if someone is from Western Europe, the American JD means less. But even if they're from China or Korea, I still wouldn't recommend these schools unless they're guaranteed employment after law school.