UVA (18K/yr) vs GW (50K/yr) Forum

[bciara96]

I'm currently living in the Washington DC area and that's where I would like to practice. DC does have a fairly high cost of living so I am decently concerned about debt/income. I'd like to eventually practice in PI (crim defense with potential to move into more prestigious jobs) but I think I'll work in big law for a couple of years first to gain experience and pay off debt. I'm also interested in federal clerkships.

I have acceptances from UVA, GW, Vandy, and Wake Forest. I'm waitlisted at Georgetown and priority waitlisted at Duke. I've basically narrowed it down to UVA and GW.

UVA is offering me 18k/year which puts my total COA over three years at ~210k.
GW is offering me 50k/year which puts my total COA over three years at ~130k.

Which school is better for my goals? If I pick the "wrong" school, what potential consequences am I looking at?

[trebekismyhero]

UVA

[TrynaLaw]

UVA is better for your goals statistically, better placement generally and especially if you think you want more prestigious PI at some point.

[The Lsat Airbender]

GW simply isn't worth much more than a new automobile. Its decent reputation is diluted to the point of homeopathy by its massive class size.

[Sackboy]

In a vacuum, I'd say go with UVA. $210k is a lot of debt, though. Mind sharing your stats, what time you applied this cycle, and the whole list of schools you applied to? It may make sense for you to sit out, retake, and reapply.

[bciara96]

In a vacuum, I'd say go with UVA. $210k is a lot of debt, though. Mind sharing your stats, what time you applied this cycle, and the whole list of schools you applied to? It may make sense for you to sit out, retake, and reapply.

I'm not willing to sit out and wait. I've taken the LSAT three times and already postponed law school about three years (got my masters in the mean time for something to do). I submitted applications in September to all the schools I mentioned in my original post (exception of Vandy -- applied there in February). I had a 167 LSAT and 3.9 GPA.

[AdieuCali]

I'm not willing to sit out and wait. I've taken the LSAT three times and already postponed law school about three years (got my masters in the mean time for something to do). I submitted applications in September to all the schools I mentioned in my original post (exception of Vandy -- applied there in February). I had a 167 LSAT and 3.9 GPA.

R&R is TCR with that excellent GPA. You're 2-3 points away from $$$ across the lower T13, a good chance at full ride a NU, and an outside shot at H/S. https://mylsn.info/gbhexn/

But if you must go this year, UVA is an easy choice. Even in a good economy, GW sends less than 1/3 of its class to BL. If BL firms start shrinking class sizes significantly a la 2009-12, T1 schools will be hurt much more severely than the T13.

And even if you don't go the BL route, UVA has a much more generous LRAP.

[bciara96]

I'm not willing to sit out and wait. I've taken the LSAT three times and already postponed law school about three years (got my masters in the mean time for something to do). I submitted applications in September to all the schools I mentioned in my original post (exception of Vandy -- applied there in February). I had a 167 LSAT and 3.9 GPA.

R&R is TCR with that excellent GPA. You're 2-3 points away from $$$ across the lower T13, a good chance at full ride a NU, and an outside shot at H/S. https://mylsn.info/gbhexn/

I legit tried so hard to get my score up. I had a 162 the first time (when I was averaging 165). I messed up my second attempt for various reasons but for my third attempt, I was averaging a 172 and had hit a 176 on one test but on test day I just messed up too many questions. I was very well prepared for that test but just didn't deliver so che sara sara.

But if you must go this year, UVA is an easy choice. Even in a good economy, GW sends less than 1/3 of its class to BL. If BL firms start shrinking class sizes significantly a la 2009-12, T1 schools will be hurt much more severely than the T13.

And even if you don't go the BL route, UVA has a much more generous LRAP.

Thank you for including this part instead of just saying I should retake/reapply. I am concerned about the debt but from what I'm hearing, UVA sets me up in a good position. Thank you (and everyone else) for your feedback! I'd still love different viewpoints if possible -- I'm so nervous that I'll make the wrong decision.

[decimalsanddollars]

I've seen your previous posts about this decision and your consideration of Vandy. Congrats on all the great offers! I think that, for what you want to do, where you want to be, and your long-term aspirations, UVA is the better choice. Also, a $90k debt difference does not bridge the gap between the employment prospects at UVA and at GW.

[AdieuCali]

I legit tried so hard to get my score up. I had a 162 the first time (when I was averaging 165). I messed up my second attempt for various reasons but for my third attempt, I was averaging a 172 and had hit a 176 on one test but on test day I just messed up too many questions. I was very well prepared for that test but just didn't deliver so che sara sara.

Unfortunately, law school grades (and thus your employment outcomes) are based almost entirely on how you well you perform on 4-hr final exams. This system gives a slight edge to people who can read, analyze, and write fast over those that know the law well but type slowly or have trouble working under timed pressure.

I think if you're someone who has underperformed in standardized tests like the LSAT, then you should absolutely not go to GW. UVA has a broad B+ curve so the median is pretty wide. Even if you don't do that well, below-median at UVA isn't a great place to be, but you'll get a good (if not great) legal job regardless. Median or below-median at GW, in this economy, might mean graduating without a job at all.

[bciara96]

I think if you're someone who has underperformed in standardized tests like the LSAT, then you should absolutely not go to GW. UVA has a broad B+ curve so the median is pretty wide. Even if you don't do that well, below-median at UVA isn't a great place to be, but you'll get a good (if not great) legal job regardless. Median or below-median at GW, in this economy, might mean graduating without a job at all.

I'm actually historically a really good test taker, this one test just kept messing me up, but that could be due to the content on the test (my reading comp fluctuated a bunch depending on how interesting the passages were). It's also possible though that now I'm just in a different tier and am having to push for higher goals than I was previously pushing for. Regardless, that's some really good input about class standing and success so thank you!

[bciara96]

I've seen your previous posts about this decision and your consideration of Vandy. Congrats on all the great offers! I think that, for what you want to do, where you want to be, and your long-term aspirations, UVA is the better choice. Also, a $90k debt difference does not bridge the gap between the employment prospects at UVA and at GW.

Thank you so much! I've posted a bunch throughout various stages of my decision making. Sometimes I'm worried I'm overthinking it but this is a really important decision and I'm trying to be thorough. I think your last statement about the debt difference/employment prospects is one of the biggest factors. It's definitely scary to think about the debt but I know that UVA will set me up for success.

[crazywafflez]

I'd pick UVA. The gap between these two schools is just too huge. Especially if you're married to DC area. UVA has a great LRAP program, you'll get a job, and it is just a great program in general. If your vandy debt would be really low I'd consider there but it doesn't guarantee DC by any means and is still on paper a weaker school for placing into BL. Congrats and enjoy charlottesville!