UNC v. Tulane

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flman70

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UNC v. Tulane

Post by flman70 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:02 am

Which school has a better reputation in the Southeast outside of its immediate market? Specifically in Atlanta, Charleston, Savannah, Nashville, etc., will either of these schools be held in significantly higher esteem than the other in a neutral southern city? Both schools see a majority of its graduates leave the home state.

I feel like Tulane enjoys that "old school" prestige recognized by more senior employers, while UNC is considered a regional hegemon in the lay world.

Thank you for all advice and counsel here, future (and current) counselors.

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cavalier1138

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Re: UNC v. Tulane

Post by cavalier1138 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:51 am

Neither. If you want to work in Atlanta, Emory or UGA are your best bets.

flman70

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Re: UNC v. Tulane

Post by flman70 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:16 am

Objectively false. They both place fairly well in ATL. My question was in regard to the South generally, and whether one is favored over the other.

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cavalier1138

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Re: UNC v. Tulane

Post by cavalier1138 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:28 am

flman70 wrote:Objectively false. They both place fairly well in ATL. My question was in regard to the South generally, and whether one is favored over the other.
Well, it sounds like you've got the inside scoop.

[For any readers who don't think that they've figured out some secret "hack" to law school placement, these are regional schools that place well in their respective states (and give their top students a shot at some of the major markets like NYC). If you want a school that gives strong placement across a wider region, you really need to be looking in the T20, or the T13 if you want national placement. But again, this is just advice for those mere mortals who don't have the OP's special knowledge about legal hiring.]

flman70

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Re: UNC v. Tulane

Post by flman70 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:59 am

My oh my, why so sensitive? Placement statistics are hard numbers, and both place in Atlanta.

Again (again), my question was not in regard to ATL exclusively, but the general perception of both schools across the South. Thank you for your tantalizing perspective regarding the t-14, never heard that before...

Since both schools place well over 50% of their grads out-of-state, I was curious if one is held in greater repute than the either.

Anyone aside from the block of wood whose already replied twice in vain?

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decimalsanddollars

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Re: UNC v. Tulane

Post by decimalsanddollars » Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:18 am

flman70 wrote:My oh my, why so sensitive? Placement statistics are hard numbers, and both place in Atlanta.

Again (again), my question was not in regard to ATL exclusively, but the general perception of both schools across the South. Thank you for your tantalizing perspective regarding the t-14, never heard that before...

Since both schools place well over 50% of their grads out-of-state, I was curious if one is held in greater repute than the either.

Anyone aside from the block of wood whose already replied twice in vain?
I'm working on an empirical analysis of your dumb claim about ATL placement, but here's the tl;dr:
Even with some self-selection, there is a disadvantage to the schools you listed, particularly Tulane. As for regional placement in Nashville, schools outside of the state are at a HUGE disadvantage as against Vandy/UT. UNC is stronger in Charleston than Tulane, but Charleston and Savannah are much smaller legal markets, and hiring is more focused on ties than anything else.

>50% out-of-state probably includes some New York, Texas, and maybe DC for high-ranked students, but people generally go to (and often, back to) cities in the South where they have ties.

nixy

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Re: UNC v. Tulane

Post by nixy » Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:24 am

Where are you getting numbers for placement in Atlanta? LST identifies ~30% of Tulane grads as not in LA, NY, or TX, with no greater breakdown; for UNC, they list 3% placement in GA. (UNC also places 50% in NC so not sure where “well over 50% of grads out of state” comes from.)

In any case, I’d be surprised if either has some great advantage over the other. The closer you are to LA, the more Tulane will be recognized; the closer to NC, the more NC will be recognized.

decimalsanddollars

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Re: UNC v. Tulane

Post by decimalsanddollars » Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:51 am

Cosign Cav's post in its entirety, including the snark. But because I was curious, I went ahead and ran the numbers on 12 of the top firms in Atlanta. Specifically, I looked at how many attorneys went to law school at UNC, Tulane, and UGA, and tabbed the results below. 00 means the firm had no lawyers from that law school in any office. 0 means no Atlanta lawyers, but at least one lawyer in another office went to that school.

Format = [Firm name]: [# UNC lawyers in ATL], [# Tulane lawyers in ATL], [# UGA lawyers in ATL]

King & Spalding: 8, 2, 31
Alston & Bird: 4, 3, 71
Jones Day: 6, 0, 33
Bondurant Mixson & Elmore: 00, 00, 9
Bryan Cave: 1, 0, 13
Troutman Sanders*: 20, 3, 41
McGuireWoods: 0, 0, 7
Paul Hastings: 1, 0, 4
Morris Manning & Martin: 6, 1, 33
Greenberg Traurig: 2, 1, 6
Holland & Knight: 4, 1, 8
Baker Donelson: 1, 0, 21
*includes non-partner-track

Even with some self-selection, there is a disadvantage to the schools you listed, particularly Tulane. As for regional placement in Nashville, schools outside of the state are at a HUGE disadvantage as against Vandy/UT. UNC is stronger in Charleston than Tulane, but Charleston and Savannah are much smaller legal markets, and hiring is more focused on ties than anything else.

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Re: UNC v. Tulane

Post by crazywafflez » Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:07 pm

Hey, I'll try and give you the best advice I can- I'm at Tulane, with a summer offer from a midsized firm back home- i'm from TN.
I have a few friends going to Atlanta- all but one are on the LR, and the one who isn't is a URM who played football in college at a D1. Houston is much more where we end up placing folks. I think UNC vs Tulane prestige wise is a wash in the South, at least outside their perspective states. I think in NYC Tulane might be a tiny bit better and UNC is better the rest of the east (this is honestly splitting hairs... and it is possible UNC just places better in general than Tulane).
In TN I think they are a wash. I'm not on LR- I struck out at OCI; I only got offers back home and had a few nibbles in TX.
My final choices were UNC vs. Tulane vs. UTk vs. Emory. I should've chosen UTk- full ride etc. Tulane gave me the next best deal and I chose them cause at the time I thought I possibly could want to be in Texas or FL, and thought i'd be top of the class (i'm median)- I'll be about 60k in debt upon graduation (including living expenses). I feel comfortable with that debt but not thrilled... UNC would've cost me a ton- sticker but then instate, so roughly 100k+ in debt and Emory gave me a 5k scholly but that's nothing and would've cost me over 200k...
I digress though- go to whatever state you want to live in. Tulane has some reach into TX, FL, and NY- some. UNC has reach into SC (altohugh, remember that SC is really insular and so is LA so you should make sure you're pretty damn down with the good ole boys network).
Neither of these schools are powerhouses in Atlanta. UGA and Emory will beat them head to head, and Duke and Vandy kids are fighting to get into Atlanta too now. Even some Bama ones as well.
Tulane and UNC are peer regional schools that can place in any southern state but certainly do not dominate them and place mostly in their own states. I will say Tulane has less competition in LA, but the market is shittier than NC. UNC has Wake. Nobody from Duke is really from the south and hardly any of them try and stay in NC.
As an aside, I'd much rather live in Charlotte, the research triangle, wilimington etc than NOLA.
Expect to live in the state you go to school in or go back to your home state. If you're from Atlanta or Georgia, go to UGA.
Furthermore, Tulane has been on the decline for awhile now. I'm proud of my school and think it is a great school but I'm not sure it'll ever be a high T1 school. We will forever be fluttering between T1 and T2. However, UNC is the pride of the state and generally is around ranks 25-40. Tulane hasn't been in the 30s since the early 2000s or something. Rank is kind of meaningless after the T20 to most T2 schools in a region but Tulane's decline is real. It is too expensive and its main market, LA, hardly pays, and while you'll probs get a job graduating from Tulane, it most likely won't be enough to cover the debt. I would not go to Tulane if my debt breached 100k- and I'd seriously reconsider even at 80k.
Again, it is possible to get Atlanta from these two schools but you need to be LR or at the least the top 20% or have some kind of deep connection with the city.
Best of luck

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