Didn’t get into my dream school Forum

[FielderN]

I have a 3.7/169 and switched to law from a different career track last year. I applied to Texas Law last year (went complete in March or April so quite late) and was rejected. I studied for the exam for a year and got a 169 this January. So I applied again for law school.

The good news is that I got a full scholarship to my local school. However, I was waitlisted at Texas. I also have been rejected from Cornell and Michigan. I have very little hope of the other schools that I applied to which are ranked in the lower T14.

Last year, I was waitlisted at UVA and Northwestern (both schools that I really like).

I don’t know what to make of this. Texas Law has been my dream school throughout this entire process and I’m heartbroken. Some people have told me that going to a strong regional school with a full scholarship is better than paying sticker at a T20 but I’m not sure if this is just to make me feel better. Others have said it is not worth going to law school if you do not get into a T14.

My goals are to work for the federal government (can go into more detail if you want) and it looks like they prefer the top ranked schools. Should I give up on this goal and be more realistic?

[nixy]

You may need to go into more detail about desired goals, because the feds actually often hire from a reasonably wide range of schools. T14 is always good, of course, but there are a lot of people from strong regionals as well. Good grades (and demonstrated
commitment/experience) are often more important than 20-30 spots in the rankings (if you’re looking at truly bottom feeder schools that might be different, but you’re not).

Required caveat is that there are some
unicorn jobs within the federal government that require tip top pedigrees, but it’s not universal at all.

[decimalsanddollars]

PM me if you want. Fed govt overall is not as school-prestige-sensitive as biglaw generally, but grades/academics and extracurriculars (journal, moot court) will matter much more, and clerkships make you much more attractive for federal jobs, especially honors programs. My general recommendation, without knowing what you would do other than federal honors programs, is to go to the regional school for free and try to do very well there [caveat: you can't directly control how well you do]. Consider transferring after your first year if you do pretty well, and whatever you do, try to clerk at some point, preferably straight out.

[FielderN]

Well, to be honest, I’m not sure what “BigFed” jobs will be like given the way things are going politically but as I understand it the initial path involves a federal clerkship (something that interests me greatly) and the placement of the T2 school in question is very low (using LST data). I certainly get the sense that prestige may not always matter but Texas Law seems to be considered second to only YHS in the state and the network is pretty strong too.

My concern is that, while many people have said that having an application that merits a full scholarship at a school (where only a small fraction of incoming students receive it) might put one at an advantage in terms of class ranking and grades, that there are so many factors that go into 1L performance and, at best, I can assume that I will do as well as the median student.

I’m grateful for this opportunity and the people that I have interacted with at the school have been very helpful and kind. At least in my city, the law school is considered quite good by many people but I had my heart set on Texas Law and had spent so much time to read about it and learn everything I could about it and I’m still in a bit of a shock about not getting in.

[nealric]

Well, to be honest, I’m not sure what “BigFed” jobs will be like given the way things are going politically but as I understand it the initial path involves a federal clerkship (something that interests me greatly) and the placement of the T2 school in question is very low (using LST data).

I think "BigFed" is usually just any federal government attorney job. It does not necessarily involve a federal clerkship, although one might be helpful for certain positions. Many agencies have "honors" programs where you are hired straight from school. Another path is to spend a few years in private practice and lateral to a federal government job. I had a lot of friends from law school end up in federal government jobs, and the majority of those did not clerk.

[FielderN]

Well, to be honest, I’m not sure what “BigFed” jobs will be like given the way things are going politically but as I understand it the initial path involves a federal clerkship (something that interests me greatly) and the placement of the T2 school in question is very low (using LST data).

I think "BigFed" is usually just any federal government attorney job. It does not necessarily involve a federal clerkship, although one might be helpful for certain positions. Many agencies have "honors" programs where you are hired straight from school. Another path is to spend a few years in private practice and lateral to a federal government job. I had a lot of friends from law school end up in federal government jobs, and the majority of those did not clerk.

Thanks! Yes, something like DOJ honors would be ideal but what do they usually look for when they select candidates? I have been reading that these spots are very competitive even for students that go to elite schools like HYSCCN.

For the friends who lateraled to federal government jobs, were they in BigLaw? The top 10% of students at the school in question get into BigLaw.

[nealric]

Well, to be honest, I’m not sure what “BigFed” jobs will be like given the way things are going politically but as I understand it the initial path involves a federal clerkship (something that interests me greatly) and the placement of the T2 school in question is very low (using LST data).

I think "BigFed" is usually just any federal government attorney job. It does not necessarily involve a federal clerkship, although one might be helpful for certain positions. Many agencies have "honors" programs where you are hired straight from school. Another path is to spend a few years in private practice and lateral to a federal government job. I had a lot of friends from law school end up in federal government jobs, and the majority of those did not clerk.

Thanks! Yes, something like DOJ honors would be ideal but what do they usually look for when they select candidates? I have been reading that these spots are very competitive even for students that go to elite schools like HYSCCN.

For the friends who lateraled to federal government jobs, were they in BigLaw? The top 10% of students at the school in question get into BigLaw.

DOJ and other federal government jobs can be idiosyncratic in terms of what they are looking for. It's not necessarily the same as biglaw, although some units can be very prestige driven. There's a huge difference between getting a job at OLC (better be SCOTUS clerk material) and getting a job at the Department of Transportation. Sometimes just networking your way in can be a huge help- especially at some of the less marquee agencies/positions.

As for the folks I know who ended up in federal government. Some went straight in, others did a stint in biglaw. Whether biglaw helps will depend a lot on what sort of position you are going for. If you are going to work for the SEC, it's hard to get relevant experience outside of biglaw. If you want to do criminal work, you can get that by working for the state/local government.

[pianolesspianist]

I have a 3.7/169 and switched to law from a different career track last year. I applied to Texas Law last year (went complete in March or April so quite late) and was rejected. I studied for the exam for a year and got a 169 this January. So I applied again for law school.

The good news is that I got a full scholarship to my local school. However, I was waitlisted at Texas. I also have been rejected from Cornell and Michigan. I have very little hope of the other schools that I applied to which are ranked in the lower T14.

Last year, I was waitlisted at UVA and Northwestern (both schools that I really like).

I don’t know what to make of this. Texas Law has been my dream school throughout this entire process and I’m heartbroken. Some people have told me that going to a strong regional school with a full scholarship is better than paying sticker at a T20 but I’m not sure if this is just to make me feel better. Others have said it is not worth going to law school if you do not get into a T14.

My goals are to work for the federal government (can go into more detail if you want) and it looks like they prefer the top ranked schools. Should I give up on this goal and be more realistic?

I'm actually pretty surprised to hear that. 169/3.7 are pretty good stats that should be able to get you into at least one or two T14s if you apply to all of them (you may not have a super great chance at each school individually, but I would think you're much more likely than not to get an offer from at least one of them).

Also, this year there was a significant (i think 11%) increase in 170-174 LSAT scores, which is not going to work in your favor.
I know it sucks, but 169 is just so close to a lot of these schools medians that it might be worth to retake even just for a couple of points.

Otherwise, I wouldn't necessarily give up hope on the lower T14s if you applied to all/most of them. Good luck!

[hookem7]

Your numbers say you should be in at Texas. Do you know anything about what your rec letters look like? Something may be off in your application.

[QContinuum]

Your numbers say you should be in at Texas. Do you know anything about what your rec letters look like? Something may be off in your application.

Also, when did you apply? If you applied again in the spring, that could be a factor.

But assuming you applied back in the fall (2019), then it may be worth getting a second pair of eyes on your PS, and carefully considering whether you 100% trust all of your recommenders not to have sabotaged you.

Do you have any character & fitness issues (academic misconduct, criminal charges, delinquent debt, etc.)? Is 3.7 your actual LSAC GPA (which is the only GPA law schools care about)? Do you have any potentially eyebrow-raising things in your academic past, like dropping out mid-semester, an unexplained leave of absence, a "forgiven" D/F grade?

[FielderN]

Your numbers say you should be in at Texas. Do you know anything about what your rec letters look like? Something may be off in your application.

I was always pretty quiet in my classes but one of my professors I talked to a lot so that should be a good letter. The other letter was from a professor that I talked to a few times out of class just to ask questions about the material but not personally. Could they have sent a negative LOR??

[FielderN]

Your numbers say you should be in at Texas. Do you know anything about what your rec letters look like? Something may be off in your application.

Also, when did you apply? If you applied again in the spring, that could be a factor.

But assuming you applied back in the fall (2019), then it may be worth getting a second pair of eyes on your PS, and carefully considering whether you 100% trust all of your recommenders not to have sabotaged you.

Do you have any character & fitness issues (academic misconduct, criminal charges, delinquent debt, etc.)? Is 3.7 your actual LSAC GPA (which is the only GPA law schools care about)? Do you have any potentially eyebrow-raising things in your academic past, like dropping out mid-semester, an unexplained leave of absence, a "forgiven" D/F grade?

I applied in January. I do have some eyebrow raising things because I left school when I had family members that got sick and another time where I had to have a surgery. I noted this in an addendum but I don’t know what to do about this because I finished my degree and have been working since that time. Is there no way to fix this flaw in my application?

Edit; yes, that is my LSAC GPA too