UGA ($$$) vs W&M ($$$) Forum

[BirdLaw2023]

Hello, all. I was looking to get some advice on a big decision.

I haven't received all of my admissions decisions yet (have been ghosted by Vandy and not likely to get in), but my choice out of available options is in all likelihood going to be between UGA and W&M. Both are offering $$$ of out-of-state tuition, and it seems like their employment outcomes are pretty comparable in their respective regions.

I would like to practice litigation (in any sphere other than family law). I have not lived in either Virginia or Georgia; any idea what one can expect from living or practicing in either state? Also, in terms of campus culture, would I be shooting myself in the foot by going to UGA if I don't like football? I know that kind of thing is an often dismissed factor here, but it will be the first time I move away from family and friends and I don't want to risk making the "law school burnout" worse by isolating myself.

[Dcc617]

Real quick, why do you think you'll like living in either state for the rest of your career?

[BirdLaw2023]

Real quick, why do you think you'll like living in either state for the rest of your career?

Interesting question. I'm from the South and though I have spent time living in other areas of the country (Northeast and the Midwest), I always end up wanting to return to the South. There's not really any reason I would prefer NY, Boston, Chicago, etc., over practicing in GA or VA. At least, not any that I can imagine. So, I guess it's not that I necessarily like these states specifically, so much as I don't have a particular draw to any other state (other than my home state, but our state law school is very lacking, even regionally).

[trebekismyhero]

I don't think like or dislike of football should be a factor, but visit both and see which town and school you like more. If price is similar and affordable, then you just have to decide would you rather live and work in Virginia or Georgia.

[Dcc617]

Real quick, why do you think you'll like living in either state for the rest of your career?

Interesting question. I'm from the South and though I have spent time living in other areas of the country (Northeast and the Midwest), I always end up wanting to return to the South. There's not really any reason I would prefer NY, Boston, Chicago, etc., over practicing in GA or VA. At least, not any that I can imagine. So, I guess it's not that I necessarily like these states specifically, so much as I don't have a particular draw to any other state (other than my home state, but our state law school is very lacking, even regionally).

Do you mind if I ask how old you are?

Where you go is a big deal. Outside of like the top 13 or so law schools, they're pretty regional. A WM grad basically works in Richmond, Northern VA, or maybe DC if they can. A UGA grad works in Georgia.

It's not impossible to go elsewhere, but it's much more difficult. I'd be a little leery of committing to live and work somewhere blind. Especially if you're young and haven't lived in a lot of places.

For what it's worth, I grew up in SE VA, went to undergrad at WM, and live in Chicago now. I moved around a lot before I went to law school at 26, and had spent a decent amount of time in Chicago, so I felt pretty comfortable. Also, I went to a school with a lot of national portability, so I can move if I decide to leave Chicago in the next few years, which is super possible.

[BirdLaw2023]

Do you mind if I ask how old you are?

Where you go is a big deal. Outside of like the top 13 or so law schools, they're pretty regional. A WM grad basically works in Richmond, Northern VA, or maybe DC if they can. A UGA grad works in Georgia.

It's not impossible to go elsewhere, but it's much more difficult. I'd be a little leery of committing to live and work somewhere blind. Especially if you're young and haven't lived in a lot of places.

For what it's worth, I grew up in SE VA, went to undergrad at WM, and live in Chicago now. I moved around a lot before I went to law school at 26, and had spent a decent amount of time in Chicago, so I felt pretty comfortable. Also, I went to a school with a lot of national portability, so I can move if I decide to leave Chicago in the next few years, which is super possible.

I'm 24.

Yeah, I understand that these are regional schools, which is why I came here to ask what people thought about the regions in question. Other than one WL, my applications have not had success in the T13, so that avenue for portability is not really open to me.

Unfortunately, I'm not in a position in my life where I can wait for the next cycle and hope for more "prestigious" or nationally portable placement.

[JOThompson]

I'd pick W&M. Neither are particularly portable but I think W&M has an edge. I know some W&M alums in every market I've worked in, but have never met a Georgia one (possible Georgia grads just want to stay in the south though). It's anecdotal but I imagine you could get alumni organization info that would show you W&M has better placement outside the region, even if it's still not a national law school.

[cavalier1138]

Unfortunately, I'm not in a position in my life where I can wait for the next cycle and hope for more "prestigious" or nationally portable placement.

Why not?

I'm not saying you need a top school for your career goals. But what's stopping you from applying next cycle if you don't have the options you want at the end of this one?

[BirdLaw2023]

I'd pick W&M. Neither are particularly portable but I think W&M has an edge. I know some W&M alums in every market I've worked in, but have never met a Georgia one (possible Georgia grads just want to stay in the south though). It's anecdotal but I imagine you could get alumni organization info that would show you W&M has better placement outside the region, even if it's still not a national law school.

Thanks for the input. Now that you mention it, I have met a few W&M lawyers in my home city as well (outside VA), which is interesting. I should look into that.

Unfortunately, I'm not in a position in my life where I can wait for the next cycle and hope for more "prestigious" or nationally portable placement.

Why not?

I'm not saying you need a top school for your career goals. But what's stopping you from applying next cycle if you don't have the options you want at the end of this one?

I hate to turn this into some whining sobstory, but I graduated in December (~2 years late) with a useless Bachelor's degree and am currently unemployed and still living off my parents' dime. I can't even land a job pouring coffee or running a cash register. If I wait for next cycle, I will have nobody to grab LORs from, an even bigger gap in my resume, and I will be a 25 year old parasite. I think I'd be better off taking what I can get now and getting a move on with my life.

[Dcc617]

It's not so much about national portability, it's about making sure you're happy with the place you're settling down. Again, you said you've never lived in Georgia or Virginia, which means you're basically going in blind.

Where in the south are you from? There are other states besides VA and GA.

My concern is that you're not like "I definitely want any sort of legal job in VA" which would make WM full ride great. You're making a huge decision based on little info.

[Dcc617]

Also based on the last post, it seems like you're going to law school because you don't know what else to do, which is basically the worst reason to commit 3 years to school to get a degree that lets you work in a specific profession.

[JOThompson]

Although I don't think that portability is the main concern necessarily, it's a good safety net if someone doesn't know where they want to live, or if they're unsure that they'll want to stay in that market. I went to a midwest T1 on a full ride and basically hated my life for about six years, which is how long it took me to get back to the west coast. In hindsight, I would have been much better off going to a local T2 with a little bit of scholarship money or with in-state tuition. Having exit options is important. But if D is okay with Virginia or Georgia for 3-5 years or longer, then I think it's less of a risk.

[JOThompson]

Also based on the last post, it seems like you're going to law school because you don't know what else to do, which is basically the worst reason to commit 3 years to school to get a degree that lets you work in a specific profession.

That is an excellent point. I have buddies who went to law school, realized either partway into 2L or a year into practice that they disliked law, and now they have a ton of debt and are either underqualified or overqualified for many of the jobs they want.

[BirdLaw2023]

It's not so much about national portability, it's about making sure you're happy with the place you're settling down. Again, you said you've never lived in Georgia or Virginia, which means you're basically going in blind.

Where in the south are you from? There are other states besides VA and GA.

My concern is that you're not like "I definitely want any sort of legal job in VA" which would make WM full ride great. You're making a huge decision based on little info.

I'd rather not post my specific state to avoid doxing myself (I still have a handful of applications in review), I hope you don't mind. It's true that I'm not deadset on practicing in either state, and I am a bit blind. But I'm going to be blind no matter where I go, except in my current state (which isn't a very appealing option atm).

Also based on the last post, it seems like you're going to law school because you don't know what else to do, which is basically the worst reason to commit 3 years to school to get a degree that lets you work in a specific profession.

I very much wish to be an attorney. My mother worked as an attorney, and I've been in and out of courtrooms since I was a kid. It's one of the only professions in which I am confident I could be proficient. But it's true that I don't really have any other options at the moment.

Although I don't think that portability is the main concern necessarily, it's a good safety net if someone doesn't know where they want to live, or if they're unsure that they'll want to stay in that market. I went to a midwest T1 on a full ride and basically hated my life for about six years, which is how long it took me to get back to the west coast. In hindsight, I would have been much better off going to a local T2 with a little bit of scholarship money or with in-state tuition. Having exit options is important. But if D is okay with Virginia or Georgia for 3-5 years or longer, then I think it's less of a risk.

Thank you for the input. I understand the idea that portability and exit options are valuable assets.

That is an excellent point. I have buddies who went to law school, realized either partway into 2L or a year into practice that they disliked law, and now they have a ton of debt and are either underqualified or overqualified for many of the jobs they want.

Fortunately, I won't be graduating with any debt. My parents are financing my law school, and with scholarships they can afford it without batting an eye. I hope I don't turn out like your friends, with regrets and issues with qualifications, but I would be better off with a JD and regrets than the situation I am in now.

[Golradaer]

If you're unemployed right now and already live in the South, why not take a road trip through Virginia and Georgia? I can't imagine that you would have no preference at all between the two. Or choose between DC and Atlanta (major metros closest to each).

If you still have no preference between the two states, go visit the campuses and pick one. Williamsburg and Athens have different cultures, and I bet you'll have a preference.

[BirdLaw2023]

If you're unemployed right now and already live in the South, why not take a road trip through Virginia and Georgia? I can't imagine that you would have no preference at all between the two. Or choose between DC and Atlanta (major metros closest to each).

If you still have no preference between the two states, go visit the campuses and pick one. Williamsburg and Athens have different cultures, and I bet you'll have a preference.

This seems like a good idea, thank you! Maybe it will help clarify some things, give me some perspective.