ED, retake, other options Forum

[tennisbuck]

Hi all, it has been a pleasure to read your advise to other prospective law students, and I hope that I may receive some words of wisdom as well. FYI, my stats are 3.4 GPA(3.5 with transfer credit included??) and 164 LSAT

So far I have applied to Alabama, Indiana, OSU, Wisconsin, Illinois, and am about to send in Wake Forest. These are my "targets" in my mind although I am not whether that's a misnomer.

I'm about to begin applying to reaches: Wash U, Notre Dame, Texas, Vanderbilt, and Minnesota(maybe one more).

1. Do you all think that applying ED to Notre dame or Minnesota is worth it? the slight increase in admissions chances being the trade-off for potentially locking myself into more debt.
2. Everyone here recommends retakes, but with my GPA, how much would getting into the high 160s LSAT help me? I did well on most sections but got -10 on LG for my 164.

My career goal at the moment is to eventually open up my own practice in a small/medium sized town in the midwest somewhere. If I have to work in a city for a few years to achieve that goal, I am willing to do that.

[trebekismyhero]

Hi all, it has been a pleasure to read your advise to other prospective law students, and I hope that I may receive some words of wisdom as well. FYI, my stats are 3.4 GPA(3.5 with transfer credit included??) and 164 LSAT

So far I have applied to Alabama, Indiana, OSU, Wisconsin, Illinois, and am about to send in Wake Forest. These are my "targets" in my mind although I am not whether that's a misnomer.

I'm about to begin applying to reaches: Wash U, Notre Dame, Texas, Vanderbilt, and Minnesota(maybe one more).

1. Do you all think that applying ED to Notre dame or Minnesota is worth it? the slight increase in admissions chances being the trade-off for potentially locking myself into more debt.
2. Everyone here recommends retakes, but with my GPA, how much would getting into the high 160s LSAT help me? I did well on most sections but got -10 on LG for my 164.

My career goal at the moment is to eventually open up my own practice in a small/medium sized town in the midwest somewhere. If I have to work in a city for a few years to achieve that goal, I am willing to do that.

If you want to end up in the midwest, Alabama and Wake Forest don't make sense. Unless you want to be in Minnesota, I don't think it is worth it to apply there with your current numbers cause you'll get more money elsewhere. Same for ND and really WashU.

With that said, if you can increase your score to the upper 160s then all these schools you're applying will likely be full rides and you would have a shot at t14s. So yes, applying with a better LSAT is worth it.

If you don't get a better LSAT, decide where you want to be. If you want to be in Chicago, then Illinois is definitely the best choice of the schools you've applied. If you want to be in Wisconsin, then definitely Wisconsin, if Ohio, then OSU and so on. I think with your current numbers you should get into all of those and with decent scholarship, but higher LSAT will help.

[tennisbuck]

Thanks so much for the reply. It sounds to me like you are saying I should apply to my “reaches” regular decision so I can compare offers and likely choose cheaper options unless one of those schools surprises me.

I agree Alabama doesn’t make sense(only applying there because my gf has an interview for a PHD there). I thought Wake Forest is a little more of a national name than some of these other schools. Do you not think that is the case? Would you advise adding Indiana U instead?

Finally, if I took the LSAT in March, could that help my chances of getting off waitlists or improving scholarship offers?

Thanks again

[Wubbles]

What type of law do you want to practice and where? How much do you plan on making?

And no, Wake Forest does not have national reach. It's a school that people have heard of whose name isn't just a state's name, but it is still mostly a NC school with people who want to hire from the school being in NC.

[tennisbuck]

What type of law do you want to practice and where? How much do you plan on making?

And no, Wake Forest does not have national reach. It's a school that people have heard of whose name isn't just a state's name, but it is still mostly a NC school with people who want to hire from the school being in NC.

Okay about Wake. I’ll probably still apply there because Indiana doesn’t excite me and I want a 6th target school.

Estate planning is currently my top choice, but at the moment having my own practice one day is more important to me than the type of law I do. Labor, defense, and others seem interesting.

As far as earnings, I guess I don’t know how much I would make, probably depends on how good I am. I would like to make at least 80-100K out of college when I’m working for someone else and trying to pay off my loans. I would try for Big law a few years but it’s obviously tough from these schools.

[HopefulSplitter0000]

Everyone here recommends retakes, but with my GPA, how much would getting into the high 160s LSAT help me? I did well on most sections but got -10 on LG for my 164.

0L here.

No advice regarding applications themselves, but the idea that your lost points come from LG means that you have superb retake potential. Having retaken myself, I know it is mentally difficult to accept waiting another year. That said, I want to point this out:

Your weakest section is logic games (i.e. the most learnable section). With practice, you may reach -0, at which point you will not be in the "high 160s," but the mid-170s. Retaking is a personal decision, but I want you to know that you could do much better than high 160s.

[Dcc617]

Law school is not like college. Outside of the T14, schools mostly place regionally and rankings are meaningless.

Your totally random geographic spread means you have no idea what legal employment is like. Figure out what region you want to live, and then look how different schools place there.

LST reports is a great resource for researching employment outcomes.

Also, don't ED anywhere.

[tennisbuck]

Everyone here recommends retakes, but with my GPA, how much would getting into the high 160s LSAT help me? I did well on most sections but got -10 on LG for my 164.

0L here.

No advice regarding applications themselves, but the idea that your lost points come from LG means that you have superb retake potential. Having retaken myself, I know it is mentally difficult to accept waiting another year. That said, I want to point this out:

Your weakest section is logic games (i.e. the most learnable section). With practice, you may reach -0, at which point you will not be in the "high 160s," but the mid-170s. Retaking is a personal decision, but I want you to know that you could do much better than high 160s.

Thanks for the encouragement. I see what you mean although LG does just drive me crazy. I got a 160 in September, studied for a month and a half before the November including doing the LG Bible and didn’t improve on LG at all. (Looked back it was actually -11 on LG). That was the section I had spent by far the most time studying for, so that’s what really frustrated me.

I’m not totally opposed to a year off. What sort of jobs in law Do people apply for? What would I do with the apps I have already sent in? It sounds like March retake and still applying this cycle isn’t an option

[trebekismyhero]

Thanks so much for the reply. It sounds to me like you are saying I should apply to my “reaches” regular decision so I can compare offers and likely choose cheaper options unless one of those schools surprises me.

I agree Alabama doesn’t make sense(only applying there because my gf has an interview for a PHD there). I thought Wake Forest is a little more of a national name than some of these other schools. Do you not think that is the case? Would you advise adding Indiana U instead?

Finally, if I took the LSAT in March, could that help my chances of getting off waitlists or improving scholarship offers?

Thanks again

Do not go to WF unless you want to be in NC. As Wubbles said it does not have national reach, if you want to use it for scholarship negotiations, ok. There are 13/14 schools that definitely have a national reach and a few schools with regional reach, but the majority of law schools place overwhelmingly in their state. Of course, you can get a job in Chicago if you go to Wisconsin, but the alumni presence and job placement is much better at UIUC and the reverse holds true if you wanted to be in Milwaukee or Madison. If you really don't care where in the midwest you end up and are totally ok with an estate planning position, then just pick the state flagship school that gives you the most money.

[tennisbuck]

Do not go to WF unless you want to be in NC. As Wubbles said it does not have national reach, if you want to use it for scholarship negotiations, ok. There are 13/14 schools that definitely have a national reach and a few schools with regional reach, but the majority of law schools place overwhelmingly in their state. Of course, you can get a job in Chicago if you go to Wisconsin, but the alumni presence and job placement is much better at UIUC and the reverse holds true if you wanted to be in Milwaukee or Madison. If you really don't care where in the midwest you end up and are totally ok with an estate planning position, then just pick the state flagship school that gives you the most money.

Don’t the “big law” firms have smaller estate planning divisions? So even if I do want to do estate planning I don’t see how that has a major effect on school choice.

Your last sentence seems to sum it up well. I thought Notre Dame was maybe worth the anticipated extra money, but it doesn’t seem that’s true. By the time I’m in my 30s, I would like to end up back in St Louis, so Illinois is probably a good option. But yeah for the time being any midwestern city is fine. Such a shame Wash U is likely off the table

[cavalier1138]

Don’t the “big law” firms have smaller estate planning divisions? So even if I do want to do estate planning I don’t see how that has a major effect on school choice.

Sometimes, but many (most?) large firms are abandoning that practice area. They most likely are not hiring associates into that practice group, if they still have one.

[QContinuum]

Don’t the “big law” firms have smaller estate planning divisions? So even if I do want to do estate planning I don’t see how that has a major effect on school choice.

Sometimes, but many (most?) large firms are abandoning that practice area. They most likely are not hiring associates into that practice group, if they still have one.

Also, if your desire is to land a "big law" job, none of your schools are good choices, as none of them are likely to put you in a position to land a "big law" job anywhere.