T14 Job Placement in the South Forum

[2020alum]

I know that I want to end up practicing in Nashville, as that’s where the majority of my family is located, and I wanna be close to my aging parents, but I’m not dead set on going to Vandy. Does anyone know if there’s ever a ding against you for going to a T14 (other than Duke and UVA ofc) when applying to BigLaw jobs in the south? (this is super premature, as I haven’t completed over half of my apps lmao)

[trebekismyhero]

Not in the Nashville market, but I know several people that went to UChicago law and NYU law and they didn't seem to have trouble going back to Nashville. They were from TN and had a lot of family connections. Obviously Duke and UVA are probably the safest bets for Nashville, but I think if you are from the Nashville area you should be competitive no matter what t14 you are at

[The Lsat Airbender]

Disagree somewhat with the above insofar as even UVA isn't so amazing. Conventional wisdom around here is that Virginia must be good for the South because it's in the South, and that's probably true for cities where they have a legit alumni network, but I don't think UVA (undergrad, law, whatever) is any more respected in Nashville than it is in, say, Boston. Duke's a different story - bright kids in high school in Nashville dream about getting into Duke, and Vanderbilt alumni have a chip on their shoulder about being the Pepsi to Duke's Coke.

How about some data. Bradley's Nashville office has nine associates (deliberately leaving out partners, etc. because old data) who went to T14 schools:

YLS - 0
SLS - 0
HLS - 2 (undergrads: Duke and Auburn)
Chicago - 0
Columbia - 0
NYU - 0
Penn - 1 (undergrad: UNC)
UM - 0
UVA - 0
Cal - 0
NU - 0
Duke - 6 (undergrads: UT, UNC, RIT (for a B.S., doing patent work), Clemson, Birmingham-Southern and Duke)
Cornell - 0
GULC - 0

Vanderbilt? Fifteen associates. UT? Eight. Kentucky? Four. (Mississippi and Alabama, for instance, also do pretty well in this market, but I'm too lazy to go look up a bunch more schools.)

Here's Bass, Berry & Sims, which must be a lot more prestige-focused and clocked in at sixteen T14 associates:

YLS - 0
HLS - 2 (undergrads: Kentucky and Villanova. The gal who did Villanova and then Harvard was probably worried about looking like a carpetbagger so she followed up with three clerkships: both of Virginia's districts and then the 4th Circuit)
SLS - 0 (you can't even search for Stanford because BB&S have literally no lawyers in any office who went to any school at Stanford. This is also true of Columbia.)
Chicago - 2 (undergrads: GW and Wake Forest)
Columbia - 0
NYU - 1 (undergrad: MTSU)
Penn - 0
UM - 0
UVA - 2 (undergrads: UNC and Virginia Poly)
Cal - 1 (undergrad: Yale. Did a PhD at Cambridge too. This guy is the only one so far who doesn't have an obvious Southern connection, he seems to be a healthcare specialist who lateraled in as a midlevel. Probably not a reproducible career path.)
NU - 0
Duke - 5 (undergrads: Duke x3 and Vanderbilt x2)
Cornell - 2 (undergrads: Rhodes and UT)
GULC - 1 (undergrad: Roanoke College. There was also a guy who did a Tax LLM at Georgetown after his JD at Ole Miss)

Vanderbilt? Twenty. UT? Twenty-one. Kentucky? Eight.


Nashville biglaw is tough. It's a nationally-desired city with a medium-to-small legal market. There's a bit of a catch-22 where Vandy and UT have the strongest alumni networks but you're boned at median. As the above poster says, legit ties will make it possible to get back from a faraway T6, but unless you're a legitimately well-connected Belle Meade type then I wouldn't push my luck. Based on the above data I would only go to a non-HYS, non-Duke T14 if it's by far your cheapest option.

[QContinuum]

I don't mean to argue against LSAT Airbender's (very helpful) data. That said, I do think there may be a selection effect at play, which Airbender, I think, acknowledges. I think many more (relatively speaking) Duke students than YSH or CCN students are interested in working in Nashville. For instance, there are zero YLS grads at Bradley or BBS, yet presumably someone with strong Nashville ties should attend YLS over Duke or Vandy. I think the same is true of the T6 generally, which tend to be perceived very highly throughout the country, even in non-coastal secondary markets.

That said, I agree that the data indicates that someone who's dead-set on working in Nashville - even at the cost of striking out on BigLaw - should attend a T6, Duke, or Vandy. Personally, I'd probably still include UVA in the list.

(Of course, if OP's more dead-set on landing BigLaw straight out of law school than on working in Nashville straight out of law school, then attending a T13 - any T13 - is TCR over Vandy.)

[notinbiglaw]

I think T14 places just fine. I went to GULC (that I still say T14 gives it away?) and I know people got at least interviews if they got legitimate ties in all the "south" markets.

I still agree T6+Duke and then Vandy for Nashville only though.

[BlackAndOrange84]

Not specific to Nashville, but in the South more generally I'm not sure I'd go by T6. YHS are so strong nationally I wouldn't think twice about those, but I feel less sure about Columbia and NYU as compared to Chicago. Not really any stats to back that up and I'm sure there's a lot of self-selection going on, but I think I'd pick UVA or Duke over Columbia/NYU in a heartbeat if I wanted to end up back in the South for an entry-level gig and UChi over Columbia/NYU as well. For some reason, UChi seems much more "national" to me than Columbia/NYU.

[The Lsat Airbender]

Not specific to Nashville, but in the South more generally I'm not sure I'd go by T6. YHS are so strong nationally I wouldn't think twice about those, but I feel less sure about Columbia and NYU as compared to Chicago. Not really any stats to back that up and I'm sure there's a lot of self-selection going on, but I think I'd pick UVA or Duke over Columbia/NYU in a heartbeat if I wanted to end up back in the South for an entry-level gig and UChi over Columbia/NYU as well. For some reason, UChi seems much more "national" to me than Columbia/NYU.

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Southerners who to go to NYC for law school are either trying to leave the South or drink the Weil/S&C/Davis Polk koolaid once they arrive.

Hardly anyone actually finds themselves

1) targeting the South with ties,
2) not getting into Duke and
3) choosing between Columbia and, say, Michigan
4) at substantially similar price tag

but, in those circumstances, I think there's definitely value-add in picking the slightly more prestigious option.

[Pennoyer v. Meh]

I'll add, to the extent that "the South" goes beyond just Nashville, that UVA does extremely well in Atlanta. If I wanted to ensure being Nashville-approximate, I'd strongly consider UVA over, say, Columbia or NYU.

[2020alum]

Thanks for the awesome advice/stats everyone! I actually ended up getting admitted to Vandy that next Monday. So far, I'm looking at $$ and am retaking the LSAT in order to potentially negotiate up to $$$ (and maybe off of Duke's WL?). It's really heartening to hear that Vandy has such great numbers in the Nashville market!